Prototyping post Wilson QB

[Sgt. Largent]

People that think the cap hit protects us need to wake up.

Pete has rarely (if ever) adjusted for the situation or circumstance. He always believes he has a plan. And on the surface that plan, if executed, seems sounds if not fantastic.

The problem is that plan does not always mesh with the circumstance or situation.

So while the cap hit seems onerous, and most teams would balk at making a deal because of it - never underestimate Pete's inability to adjust his actions to the limitations of reality.

And, unfortunately, Pete is the FO.

If the cap hit is 40M but Pete thinks he can get the players to get us back on track? He is going to make the deal, even though it will likely end up badly for us.

This is going to come down to what Pete wants, regardless of the impact to the team or the terrible circumstance the decision puts us in.

Only scenario where Pete and John are cool with absorbing a 39M cap hit is if they make a trade with someone like Miami where they're getting who they think is the franchise QB of the future like Tua..............AND all of Miami's picks (two 1st rounders this year).

Because no other scenario taking on someone else's QB cap hit AND Wilson's 39M cap hit makes sense, even if you think Pete's crazy.

 

[pinksheets]

The Eagles just absorbed a huge hit getting rid of Wentz and were in a worse shape capwise than the Hawks.

Also, Russ can lower the dead money by paying back some of his bonus which would be recouped in a deal with the new team.

The cap hit is in no way a blocker if there is a desire to part ways.

 

[DarkVictory23]

I don't know if looking for a post-Wilson QB for a Carroll led Seahawks is entirely realistic. I honestly don't know that Pete stays that long in a post-Wilson era. Right now, we have two major individuals who catch heat from opposing camps regarding our Playoff failures... I honestly think both are to blame to varying degrees so I don't think either of them stays much longer after the other gets the boot unless things turn around immediately (which I doubt they would).

But theoretically, what is the prototype for our QB in a post-Wilson era that IS led by Carroll?

He'd need, I think, a few things that Wilson has and 1 that he doesn't.

1) A big arm. Obviously, if we are using a rush heavy offense to draw the D in, we need a guy who can exploit it once it happens.
2) Improvisational ability. Part of the failure of Pete as a coach is that he essentially aims to keep the game close and then, if by the end of the game, we are on the wrong side of 'close', he tells Wilson to go out and make magic. That means a guy who needs to be able to throw the actual playbook out the window.
3) Athletic ability/toughness. This goes with the above.

And...

4) He needs to be comfortable running plays from under center. A rush heavy offense that runs out of Shotgun so often handicaps it's RBs significantly. I'm not 100% sure the reason why we do this so much but I have a feeling this is for Russ's benefit. This is the one I don't think Russ has. (There is a chance we are so shotgun heavy for a reason other than Russ's comfort, so I could be wrong, but I feel like that's the reason we do it.)

This could possibly be switched out for a QB who is very comfortable running a read-option rush game and very willing to keep on those plays. This would be one that Russ USED to have but doesn't anymore. A read-option run game where the QB legit keeps a significant amount of time buys his RBs some extra time with defensive indecision which makes up for the slower start up for shotgun based rushing plays.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The Eagles just absorbed a huge hit getting rid of Wentz and were in a worse shape capwise than the Hawks.

Also, Russ can lower the dead money by paying back some of his bonus which would be recouped in a deal with the new team.

The cap hit is in no way a blocker if there is a desire to part ways.

Not a good comparison.

Wentz was an albatross around the Eagle's neck, both on the field and cap wise. They would have done anything to rid themselves of him.

If Russell changes his tune and REFUSES to report to camp and demands a trade? Then things change........but at this point John and Pete are not going to trade a top 5 QB who has three years left on his deal with a 39M cap hit without it being the perfect storm of compensation and another top 5 QB or a prospect that they believe will quickly turn into a top 5-10 QB.

So Raiders, Bears, Saints and Cowboys? Err.......not happening unless a 3rd team gets involved that has one of the things I listed above.

 

[toffee]

Jameis Winston

He is not a free agent, but dude has the big arm long ball capability that a power running team needs to keep the defense honest.

Is he as good as our Russ? Hell no, but in a run heavy team he doesn't have to be. Too bad we didn't sign him as backup last off season.



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[Maelstrom787]

Jameis Winston

He is not a free agent, but dude has the big arm long ball capability that a power running team needs to keep the defense honest.

Is he as good as our Russ? Hell no, but in a run heavy team he doesn't have to be. Too bad we didn't sign him as backup last off season.



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Too many turnovers. I'd be with you if it weren't for how absolutely careless he is with the ball.

 

[AgentDib]

Winston had 33 TDs to 30 INTs in his last starting season and for his career has a 1.38 TD:INT ratio. To put that in comparison, Brett Favre was famous for taking chances and had a 1.52 TD:INT ratio.

Russell Wilson has a 3.3 TD:INT ratio which is a large reason why Pete Carroll made him the highest paid player in the league.

 

[toffee]

Jameis Winston

He is not a free agent, but dude has the big arm long ball capability that a power running team needs to keep the defense honest.

Is he as good as our Russ? Hell no, but in a run heavy team he doesn't have to be. Too bad we didn't sign him as backup last off season.



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Too many turnovers. I'd be with you if it weren't for how absolutely careless he is with the ball.

Was it a matter of accuracy or carelessness?

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[pittpnthrs]

Jameis Winston

The human turnover machine? You've got to be kidding me. Winston is everything that Carroll hates in a QB.

 

[toffee]

Winston had 33 TDs to 30 INTs in his last starting season and for his career has a 1.38 TD:INT ratio. To put that in comparison, Brett Favre was famous for taking chances and had a 1.52 TD:INT ratio.

Russell Wilson has a 3.3 TD:INT ratio which is a large reason why Pete Carroll made him the highest paid player in the league.

Wondering if dude

1. Lack accuracy
2. force throws
3. Low football IQ therefore couldn't remember plays etc.

(1) is hard to improve on, (2) often a result of (3), which simplified playbooks could help.


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[Sgt. Largent]

Jameis Winston

He is not a free agent, but dude has the big arm long ball capability that a power running team needs to keep the defense honest.

Is he as good as our Russ? Hell no, but in a run heavy team he doesn't have to be. Too bad we didn't sign him as backup last off season.

Tampa Bay underachieved for five years straight with Winston, and wins the SB without him........and this inspired you to bring his name into the Wilson conversation?




- Lamar Jackson and all ur 1st round picks for the next three years
- Tua Tagolialoa and all ur 1st round picks for the next three years
- DeShaun Watson in a three team trade and all ur 1st round picks for the next three years
- Justin Herbert and all ur 1st round picks for the next three years
- Josh Allen and all ur 1st round picks for the next three years
- 1st pick in the draft and your 1st round draft picks from the Jags for the next two years

That's your short list of what it'd take for the Hawks to trade Russell right now. In no world do Pete and John trade Russell for a 2-3 late first rounders and a mediocre QB in return......AND eat his 39M dead cap hit.

Winston? Good god man.

 

[knownone]

Jameis Winston

He is not a free agent, but dude has the big arm long ball capability that a power running team needs to keep the defense honest.

Is he as good as our Russ? Hell no, but in a run heavy team he doesn't have to be. Too bad we didn't sign him as backup last off season.

Tampa Bay underachieved for five years straight with Winston, and wins the SB without him........and this inspired you to bring his name into the Wilson conversation?




- Lamar Jackson and all ur 1st round picks for the next three years
- Tua Tagolialoa and all ur 1st round picks for the next three years
- DeShaun Watson in a three team trade and all ur 1st round picks for the next three years
- Justin Herbert and all ur 1st round picks for the next three years
- Josh Allen and all ur 1st round picks for the next three years
- 1st pick in the draft and your 1st round draft picks from the Jags for the next two years

That's your short list of what it'd take for the Hawks to trade Russell right now. In no world do Pete and John trade Russell for a 2-3 late first rounders and a mediocre QB in return......AND eat his 39M dead cap hit.

Winston? Good god man.

I'm pretty sure Seattle would trade Russell straight up for Josh Allen and happily eat the cap hit. Allen is basically the Giannis of the NFL. His ceiling is so much higher than the next closest guy (Mahomes) that his upside would be too much for them to pass up.

 

[pinksheets]

The Eagles just absorbed a huge hit getting rid of Wentz and were in a worse shape capwise than the Hawks.

Also, Russ can lower the dead money by paying back some of his bonus which would be recouped in a deal with the new team.

The cap hit is in no way a blocker if there is a desire to part ways.

Not a good comparison.

Wentz was an albatross around the Eagle's neck, both on the field and cap wise. They would have done anything to rid themselves of him.

If Russell changes his tune and REFUSES to report to camp and demands a trade? Then things change........but at this point John and Pete are not going to trade a top 5 QB who has three years left on his deal with a 39M cap hit without it being the perfect storm of compensation and another top 5 QB or a prospect that they believe will quickly turn into a top 5-10 QB.

So Raiders, Bears, Saints and Cowboys? Err.......not happening unless a 3rd team gets involved that has one of the things I listed above.

It is different, but what remains true is that the dead money is a minor hurdle that can be easily worked out if both sides want to part ways.

If the relationship is not salvageable, you don't hold on for one more year just for $13m in dead money savings year to year (while also paying a QB who, in this scenario, wants out a huge sum this season knowing he's gone).

And, again, Russ can work a deal with the new team, and pay back a chunk of the bonus to the Hawks to lower the hit.

The dead money is basically irrelevant to whether he gets moved or not.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The dead money is basically irrelevant to whether he gets moved or not.

It's absolutely relevant. In fact, it's probably the most relevant part of this entire equation, for all sides involved. Wilson, the Hawks and any new team trying to fit Russell's remaining contract under their own cap....which is almost 20M less than it was last year.

Ask the Patriots, the reason they cheaped out and got Cam Newton last year is because they had almost 15M of dead cap of Brady's contract to get off the books.

Times that by almost three, and that's our situation if Wilson's traded.

 

[Frozenropers]

PC's perfect QB.
-Strong arm with good deep ball.
-Manages teh ball well, few turnovers.

Pete's offense is based around running and controling the ball and striking over the top when they cheat the safeties up to help stop the run.

 

[pinksheets]

The dead money is basically irrelevant to whether he gets moved or not.

It's absolutely relevant. In fact, it's probably the most relevant part of this entire equation, for all sides involved. Wilson, the Hawks and any new team trying to fit Russell's remaining contract under their own cap....which is almost 20M less than it was last year.

Ask the Patriots, the reason they cheaped out and got Cam Newton last year is because they had almost 15M of dead cap of Brady's contract to get off the books.

Times that by almost three, and that's our situation if Wilson's traded.

And then he's off the books next year. It's absolutely something the Hawks could choose to do rather than drag this out.

But, again, there are clear and easy paths for Russ to lower that dead money hit significantly if he wants out. That's likely what would happen, and I don't get why we're talking like the $39m is set in stone when it's plainly not.

The idea that the dead money, especially when it can be significantly lowered easily, is a hard blocker here and would make a trade unlikely even if both parties want to part ways just isn't the reality.

 

[toffee]

PC's perfect QB.
-Strong arm with good deep ball.
-Manages teh ball well, few turnovers.

Pete's offense is based around running and controling the ball and striking over the top when they cheat the safeties up to help stop the run.

Colin Kaepernick at vet minimum?

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[TwistedHusky]

It is going to be tremendously frustrating watching Wilson do things in the playoffs elsewhere that he has not done since the SB loss.

Not sure what Pete is thinking.

This literally happened last year to a better coach.

The coach was convinced it was him and that he could replicate anywhere. The QB thought it was his own contribution that mattered.

The QB left and found a team with all the pieces, just missing a QB.

We know the story, the QB left and won the SB somewhere else. The coach struggled to even stay at .500 in the season.

Bill is 2-3x the coach that Carroll is, if not more. And he could not overcome it. Why would Carroll, inferior in nearly every way to Bill, think he could somehow succeed where Bill could not??

Every week, we get assured there is nothing to see here. That this is a misunderstanding. That Wilson really does not want to leave. Then we see more and stories, sometimes coming from the Seahawks themselves (?!?!?) hinting about Wilson leaving.

The other night I saw some scouting report on the Lions. Because it was interesting I watched it. Who doesn't feel for Lions fans? But when you dig deeper, look at our aging roster and our doddering old head coach, combined with our complete lack of QB when Wilson leaves?

I am not so sure the Lions do not have the better future over the next few years. That sucks.

 

[Frozenropers]

The dead money is basically irrelevant to whether he gets moved or not.

It's absolutely relevant. In fact, it's probably the most relevant part of this entire equation, for all sides involved. Wilson, the Hawks and any new team trying to fit Russell's remaining contract under their own cap....which is almost 20M less than it was last year.

Ask the Patriots, the reason they cheaped out and got Cam Newton last year is because they had almost 15M of dead cap of Brady's contract to get off the books.

Times that by almost three, and that's our situation if Wilson's traded.

And then he's off the books next year. It's absolutely something the Hawks could choose to do rather than drag this out.

But, again, there are clear and easy paths for Russ to lower that dead money hit significantly if he wants out. That's likely what would happen, and I don't get why we're talking like the $39m is set in stone when it's plainly not.

The idea that the dead money, especially when it can be significantly lowered easily, is a hard blocker here and would make a trade unlikely even if both parties want to part ways just isn't the reality.

Easy?

 

[chris98251]

He wants TJack 2.0 with one exception, can see more then just the right side of the field.

Wants decent football IQ but not too smart and confident to challenge him or the OC, will be a good boy and do all the right things.