Problems with running the ball in the red zone?

Palmegranite

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Compare the toffee post complete with stats, vs chris98xx, all rainbows and happiness, and all I can add is..

It was the best of lines, it was the worst of lines..
 
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Palmegranite

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Wow, I didn't realize that Charles Dickens really had his finger on the pulse of modern Seahawks NFL football.

Here's the rest of that quote, for completions sake....

"it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair"
 

Bear-Hawk

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Both Chris Warren and Shaun Alexander were excellent running backs, both of whom I have very fond memories of. However, both were poster boys for running out of bounds to avoid a hit instead of trying to squeak out an extra yard or two.

Some would call it cowardly, others smart. Just depends on what side of the fence you are on. Growing up I would have sided with the former but with all we know today about CTEs and the degenerative nature of players (especially running backs) I now side with the latter.
That’s not what I remember on Carson. I can’t name many who fought for extra yards any more than Carson. Maybe some others will weigh-in on this.
 

fenderbender123

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Wow, I didn't realize that Charles Dickens really had his finger on the pulse of modern Seahawks NFL football.

Here's the rest of that quote, for completions sake....

"it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of light, it was the season of darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair"

Did Charles Dickens really use all those commas instead of periods? What a terrible writer.
 

nwHawk

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I mentioned this several times over the past couple of years, but I think alignment and gap spacing between linemen was also an issue. Maybe the lack of functional strength too.
 

Ozzy

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Agree on the sentiment, but respectfully think the Oline was #1.
I don't agree. It's all a part of it for sure but I think Geno is a major part of the problem in the red zone too. He had a game last year where he missed 2 easy touchdowns because he didn't pull the trigger and admitted as much after the game. He seemed to tighten up in the red zone and didn't play as well as he did before getting into the red zone.

It just seems easy to blame Waldron or the line but it was Geno as well.
 

LeveeBreak

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I don't agree. It's all a part of it for sure but I think Geno is a major part of the problem in the red zone too. He had a game last year where he missed 2 easy touchdowns because he didn't pull the trigger and admitted as much after the game. He seemed to tighten up in the red zone and didn't play as well as he did before getting into the red zone.

It just seems easy to blame Waldron or the line but it was Geno as well.
Our Oline sucked.
 

RiverDog

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Both Chris Warren and Shaun Alexander were excellent running backs, both of whom I have very fond memories of. However, both were poster boys for running out of bounds to avoid a hit instead of trying to squeak out an extra yard or two.

Some would call it cowardly, others smart. Just depends on what side of the fence you are on. Growing up I would have sided with the former but with all we know today about CTEs and the degenerative nature of players (especially running backs) I now side with the latter.
It depends on the situation. If it's 2nd and goal inside the 5 or near a first down, then yes, the smart play is to struggle for every inch of real estate as possible. But if it's 3rd down and you're behind the sticks, what's the difference between 4th and 10 and 4th and 11?

Christine Michael lost me as a fan when he did something of that nature several times.
 

pittpnthrs

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That’s not what I remember on Carson. I can’t name many who fought for extra yards any more than Carson. Maybe some others will weigh-in on this.

I liked Carson, but I believe he wasn't built for his style of running. I honestly think he was trying to replace Lynch and ran as so. I just remember yelling at the TV for him just to go down before he got himself killed. There are times to pick and choose when to fight for that extra yard and Carson chose all the time which wasn't the smartest idea. His neck injury is very unfortunate, but i'd be lying if I said it wasn't almost predictable.
 

Bear-Hawk

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It depends on the situation. If it's 2nd and goal inside the 5 or near a first down, then yes, the smart play is to struggle for every inch of real estate as possible. But if it's 3rd down and you're behind the sticks, what's the difference between 4th and 10 and 4th and 11?

Christine Michael lost me as a fan when he did something of that nature several times.
I remember Walter Payton once said, “I always try to hit them harder than they hit me.” He didn’t say it depends on down and distance. That attitude is one of the things that made him great. He was also tough as nails to take a beating and keep on ticking.
 

ZagHawk

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The Seahawks don’t have an offensive line that can just bull-doze people on first-and-goal from 5 yd.-line. Yet they keep trying anyway. That was one of my complaints about Waldron.
This was also my complaint with PC. You game plan around what your team is actually capable of producing with the talent on the field.
 

ZagHawk

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Both Chris Warren and Shaun Alexander were excellent running backs, both of whom I have very fond memories of. However, both were poster boys for running out of bounds to avoid a hit instead of trying to squeak out an extra yard or two.

Some would call it cowardly, others smart. Just depends on what side of the fence you are on. Growing up I would have sided with the former but with all we know today about CTEs and the degenerative nature of players (especially running backs) I now side with the latter.


Cowardly isn't exactly the word I would use, but I get it. Cowardly in the sense that the player is choosing their personal health and longevity over a teams needs in that specific moment and/or setting an attitude for the team/game. That being said...maybe it's not one or the other cowardly vs smart. It is indeed both. Just like you can be a bad ass and tough and stupid at the same time. i.e. Deciding to get into a fist fight with Mike Tyson because he made a remark at my Mom...that's Mike Tyson you're facing...yup and I'm not backing down...you're being real tough...also being real dumb too :). btw...if this was a real life situation, sorry Mom...Mike Tyson said what he said, let's keep walking...I'm taking the smart and cowardly response.
 

Ozzy

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Our Oline sucked.
They did but again I can remember multiple touchdowns that were there and we didn't pull the trigger. That moves the needle a ton. I know Geno criticism is frowned upon but he was a major part of the problem in the red zone too. Maybe Grubb and a couple of new pieces on the line and it all works itself out. I don't think they're that far from figuring it out and being much better in the red zone.

The line sucked in 2020 and 2021 too and yet we were fine in the red zone.
 

LeveeBreak

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Cowardly isn't exactly the word I would use, but I get it. Cowardly in the sense that the player is choosing their personal health and longevity over a teams needs in that specific moment and/or setting an attitude for the team/game. That being said...maybe it's not one or the other cowardly vs smart. It is indeed both. Just like you can be a bad ass and tough and stupid at the same time. i.e. Deciding to get into a fist fight with Mike Tyson because he made a remark at my Mom...that's Mike Tyson you're facing...yup and I'm not backing down...you're being real tough...also being real dumb too :). btw...if this was a real life situation, sorry Mom...Mike Tyson said what he said, let's keep walking...I'm taking the smart and cowardly response.
I loved Shaun...but he went from a conservative runner to a softie his last couple years here.
 

LeveeBreak

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They did but again I can remember multiple touchdowns that were there and we didn't pull the trigger. That moves the needle a ton. I know Geno criticism is frowned upon but he was a major part of the problem in the red zone too. Maybe Grubb and a couple of new pieces on the line and it all works itself out. I don't think they're that far from figuring it out and being much better in the red zone.

The line sucked in 2020 and 2021 too and yet we were fine in the red zone.
I have a high regard for Geno, but have no issue criticizing him when it is warranted. Glancing at red zone stats, he falls somewhere between 17 and 23 in rank, depending on which stats you read. Give him an Oline he can trust and I think that improves significantly. Teams pinned their ears back and demolished our Oline in the RZ last year. Geno's performance was a symptom of the Oline IMO.

Grubb should fix that. What he has in JSN/RB's/TE can exploit so many things when D's are protecting the end zone from big targets like DK and Bobo. Field a solid Oline, we break the top 10 easy in the RZ and probably top 5.
 

NoGain

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Yup. Walter Payton fought for every blade of grass every time. No one quite like him. The toughest football player I ever saw. And the guy missed only game, and said that if he knew he was onto some record, he would have played in it.
 

pittpnthrs

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Thing about Walter though (and many of those types of runners) was that he lived with chronic pain after football and used drugs to deal with it during his playing days. If a RB decides to run out of bounds when there is nothing to be gained instead of looking for contact, i'm fine with that.
 
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