Pete Rose, Shoeless Joe Jackson ban removed

[Wsumatt1982]

Rose, 'Shoeless' Joe HOF-eligible as MLB lifts ban

The all-time hit king and Jackson -- both longtime baseball pariahs stained by gambling, seen by MLB as the game's mortal sin -- are now presumably eligible for election into the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown.

www.espn.com

I think Pete Rose for sure shouldn't have been banned for life. Times were different back then so I can see why it was done, but it should've been lifted a while ago. He only bet on his team to win. If he was "steering" games that would be different. Glad it was lifted. I just wish he was still alive to see himself get into the Hall of Fame like he deserves.

I don't know as much about the shoeless Joe Jackson situation to comment.

 

[onanygivensunday]

Pete's punishment was he'd never see the Hall while he was alive.

I figured this day would come shortly after his death... and it has.

Long Live Charlie Hustle!!

 

[Maulbert]

Bud Selig was such a worthless turd of a commisioner. Manfred isn't great, but at least he isn't afraid to do nothing. Selig refused to take blame for attendance drops after the '94 strike, then took credit for rise in interest during the McGwire/Sosa chase, then refused to take responsibility when it became clear how rampant steroid abuse was. Also, refused to un-ban Rose purely because he was afraid it would affect his popularity. Just a worthless toad.

 

[Bobblehead]

Rose, 'Shoeless' Joe HOF-eligible as MLB lifts ban

The all-time hit king and Jackson -- both longtime baseball pariahs stained by gambling, seen by MLB as the game's mortal sin -- are now presumably eligible for election into the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown.

www.espn.com

I think Pete Rose for sure shouldn't have been banned for life. Times were different back then so I can see why it was done, but it should've been lifted a while ago. He only bet on his team to win. If he was "steering" games that would be different. Glad it was lifted. I just wish he was still alive to see himself get into the Hall of Fame like he deserves.

I don't know as much about the shoeless Joe Jackson situation to comment.

how do you know.. did he say this?

 

[IndyHawk]

​

 

[Sperrydogg]

Finally.

 

[onanygivensunday]

The only thing that really rubbed me the wrong way about Pete was when he plowed down Ray Fosse shoulder-first at home plate... during a friggin' All-Star game!!

That was a step too far.

 

[Sperrydogg]

The only thing that really rubbed me the wrong way about Pete was when he plowed down Ray Fosse shoulder-first at home plate... during a friggin' All-Star game!!

That was a step too far.

That’s pretty serious

 

[glenwo2]

Rose, 'Shoeless' Joe HOF-eligible as MLB lifts ban

The all-time hit king and Jackson -- both longtime baseball pariahs stained by gambling, seen by MLB as the game's mortal sin -- are now presumably eligible for election into the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown.

www.espn.com

I think Pete Rose for sure shouldn't have been banned for life. Times were different back then so I can see why it was done, but it should've been lifted a while ago. He only bet on his team to win. If he was "steering" games that would be different. Glad it was lifted. I just wish he was still alive to see himself get into the Hall of Fame like he deserves.

I don't know as much about the shoeless Joe Jackson situation to comment.

From the article, Rose said this 10 days before his death :

"What good is it going to do me or my fans if they put me in the Hall of Fame a couple years after I pass away?" Rose told Condit. "What's the point? What's the point? Because they'll make money over it?"

Yep. That's exactly what it is. The MLB is still a corporation of exploitation.

 

[RiverDog]

I've always said that Rose should never be re-instated prior to Shoeless Joe Jackson as Jackson's ban is far more egregious than Charlie Hustle's, and they satisfied that requirement. It's also appropriate that they waited until Rose passed away. When Pete died, there was a debate that ensued that since Rose's "lifetime" was over, that he had served his sentence and should be re-instated. Prior to Rose passing, since Shoeless Joe never had the opportunity to experience HOF induction, I didn't feel it was appropriate for Rose to have received the honor. I'm glad they waited until after Pete died.

Overall, I'm good with their decision to re-instate Rose, Jackson, and others who received a permanent ban. The league has gotten cozy with the gambling business, even moving a team to Las Vegas, so it's a bit hypocritical for them to maintain such an ironclad, zero tolerance policy. But they haven't revised the penalties yet. They need to remove the lifetime ban provision.

 

[onanygivensunday]

That’s pretty serious

Sounds like you weren't aware of that happening... and/or have never seen it.

So, here tiz... the ending play of the 1970 All-Star game...

 

[glenwo2]

I've always said that Rose should never be re-instated prior to Shoeless Joe Jackson as Jackson's ban is far more egregious than Charlie Hustle's, and they satisfied that requirement. It's also appropriate that they waited until Rose passed away. When Pete died, there was a debate that ensued that since Rose's "lifetime" was over, that he had served his sentence and should be re-instated. Prior to Rose passing, since Shoeless Joe never had the opportunity to experience HOF induction, I didn't feel it was appropriate for Rose to have received the honor. I'm glad they waited until after Pete died.

Overall, I'm good with their decision to re-instate Rose, Jackson, and others who received a permanent ban. The league has gotten cozy with the gambling business, even moving a team to Las Vegas, so it's a bit hypocritical for them to maintain such an ironclad, zero tolerance policy. But they haven't revised the penalties yet. They need to remove the lifetime ban provision.

My issue with this is that we have sports figures who have committed more heinous crimes and were still inducted into the HOF of their respective sports anyway (WHILE THEY STILL LIVED).

If the same process that was done to Rose (and Jackson), was also done in all sports, I wouldn't be complaining.

 

[RiverDog]

My issue with this is that we have sports figures who have committed more heinous crimes and were still inducted into the HOF of their respective sports anyway (WHILE THEY STILL LIVED).

If the same process that was done to Rose (and Jackson), was also done in all sports, I wouldn't be complaining.

I can understand that, but I would argue that two wrongs don't make a right. J/B they made a mistake in admitting some players who behaved badly doesn't mean that it would be right for Rose to have been admitted.

Given the history of the gambling rule, that gambling nearly destroyed the game and that most had some knowledge of the Black Sox scandal, and the fact that the rule was clearly understood by everyone in the game and actually posted in every MLB dugout, there was no excuse for Rose or any other player not fully understanding the consequences. I had zero sympathy for him.

What's worse is the omission of players like Barry Bonds and Roger Clemmons who broke no MLB rules nor violated no law. At the very least, they should be admitted with some sort of asterisk or notation about their use of steroids.

My view of the HOF is that it is an educational tool if used properly. Tell the good, the bad, and the ugly, in the raw and without revisionism or political correctness. Tell the story about the Black Sox, Jackie Robinson, Pete Rose, and Barry Bonds. It's a history lesson and can teach those otherwise not interested about the past a look back on what life used to be.

 

[Ostatehawk]

From the article, Rose said this 10 days before his death :

"What good is it going to do me or my fans if they put me in the Hall of Fame a couple years after I pass away?" Rose told Condit. "What's the point? What's the point? Because they'll make money over it?"

Yep. That's exactly what it is. The MLB is still a corporation of exploitation.

While this is is true - I think a big portion of why he was kept out - at least later in his life - was that MLB was a little worried about what crazy shit he might say once he was in. And then MLB would find themselves having to defend whatever Pete said. And you never know what sort of crap was going to fly out of Pete's mouth.

As far as HOF.....he should have been in long ago regardless.

If Ty Cobb is in the HOF - you cant keep Pete out. Cobb was a horrible person. Check this out:

But the most outrageous incident might be what happened more than a century ago today. While playing against the Highlanders in New York, Cobb was so incensed by remarks from a heckler named Claude Lucker that he charged into the stands and attacked the man. As Cobb began beating and stomping the man with those razor-sharp cleats that had punished so many basemen, a crew of his teammates held people at bay. Some in the crowd protested, since Lucker had lost all of one hand and most of the other in an industrial accident, and couldn't defend himself with his fists. A cry went up: “Cobb, that man has no hands!” Cobb reportedly yelled back in a psychotic rage, “I don’t care if he got no feet!” Protected by his teammates, the beating went on until a cop and an umpire led Cobb away.

 

[Sperrydogg]

Sounds like you weren't aware of that happening... and/or have never seen it.

So, here tiz... the ending play of the 1970 All-Star game...

Nah I knew about it. I wasn’t alive though, but just thinking about someone going that hard in an allstar game is nuts…. What happened to our all star games. Wouldn’t it be cool to see the field of dream allstars play the millennial dream team

 

[Sperrydogg]

I can understand that, but I would argue that two wrongs don't make a right. J/B they made a mistake in admitting some players who behaved badly doesn't mean that it would be right for Rose to have been admitted.

Given the history of the gambling rule, that gambling nearly destroyed the game and that most had some knowledge of the Black Sox scandal, and the fact that the rule was clearly understood by everyone in the game and actually posted in every MLB dugout, there was no excuse for Rose or any other player not fully understanding the consequences. I had zero sympathy for him.

What's worse is the omission of players like Barry Bonds and Roger Clemmons who broke no MLB rules nor violated no law. At the very least, they should be admitted with some sort of asterisk or notation about their use of steroids.

My view of the HOF is that it is an educational tool if used properly. Tell the good, the bad, and the ugly, in the raw and without revisionism or political correctness. Tell the story about the Black Sox, Jackie Robinson, Pete Rose, and Barry Bonds. It's a history lesson and can teach those otherwise not interested about the past a look back on what life used to be.

It’s crazy to think about Rose’s situation from the perspective of the time period. The fear over the black Sox scandal must have been way more significant to people at the time. When I think of Pete rose I think the gambling is not that bad but I don’t feel the same fear that his generation understood. Makes it make more sense

 

[Sperrydogg]

Sounds like you weren't aware of that happening... and/or have never seen it.

So, here tiz... the ending play of the 1970 All-Star game...

Wow that was to win the game. It really mattered to him. What a different game back then.

 

[Ozzy]

Jackson played at an MVP level during that series so he obviously wasn't trying to throw the series and Pete bet on himself. They should've been allowed in years ago.

 

[Ostatehawk]

Wow that was to win the game. It really mattered to him. What a different game back then.

Asshole or not there was zero quit in Pete - if he played, he played to win. All star game or regular season or backyard picnic.

Imagine a pitcher today having gone 8 or 9 innings and when the coach came to pull him the pitcher refused to come out and said to the coach "Why don't you go back in the dugout"; and he did. That pitcher was Nolan Ryan - and he probably did that on more than one occasion.

Gamers man. Hardcore ******* Gamers. That was really the golden era for baseball.

 

[Sperrydogg]

Asshole or not there was zero quit in Pete - if he played, he played to win. All star game or regular season or backyard picnic.

Imagine a pitcher today having gone 8 or 9 innings and when the coach came to pull him the pitcher refused to come out and said to the coach "Why don't you go back in the dugout"; and he did. That pitcher was Nolan Ryan - and he probably did that on more than one occasion.

Gamers man. Hardcore ******* Gamers. That was really the golden era for baseball.

George Brett was a gamer too