Pete caused the Adams fiasco from the start

[flv2]

Thing with the contract....the team's hands were tied. Letting him walk after giving up 2 firsts would have been a disaster. Turns out the big c contract was too! But I think when you make a deal like that, the player has all the leverage in negotiations.

Long-term extensions are risky. No player wants non-guaranteed 4th and 5th years. If a team wants those longer options they have to pay additional money during the guaranteed years. It worked out well with Earl Thomas but badly with Jamal Adams.

 

[flv2]

The thing that drives me the most mad thinking about this trade is the situation at the time between Adams and the Jets. Adams made it clear he wanted out and they wanted to get rid of him. Why did it cost us 2 firsts for a guy soon to be out of contract who didn't play a premium position and wanted out anyway?

Coaches and GMs are traditionalists. They're 'football people'. They're not bean-counters who have to justify valuations. The majority of them are fired for not being the best, (or top 3), out of 32 teams so they're incentivized to take risky gambles. The market has massively adjusted over the last 3 years as GMs have realised that they're trading for player contracts rather than talented players. If this trade had happened in the 2024 Adams might have been seen as worth a 2nd round pick. His being underpaid by about $7M+ over the remainder of the rookie contract might push the value up to a late 1st round pick.

The Rams traded Ramsey to the Dolphins for a 3rd round pick. They traded a lot more to get him about 3 years before that. His performance didn't fall off a cliff, but the market changed.

 

[Hipflexor]

Did you like the trade when it happened BASF? Two 1st rounders for a safety? I mean, it would have to be in Ronnie Lott/Ed Reed territory (which he clearly wasn't) before I would even remotely consider it and would still probably pass.

You must not have watched him in New York, dude was tracking into that territory when the the trade happened.

I don’t care about the cost, they were in win now mode and needed a stud on defense.

Worthy deal, unfortunately dudes body failed him. To act like he didn’t ball out when he was active is practically not knowing what you were seeing.

The most infamous plays he had against he was making up for a team mate screwing up. The Desean Jackson play was because Sidney Jones bum ass got out leveraged, the touchdown vs the cowboys tight end he hesitated cuz he knew Bobby can’t move faster than a corpse anymore.

His body failed him, but Jamal was a great great player when he first came into the league, he was worth that deal.

 

[pittpnthrs]

You must not have watched him in New York, dude was tracking into that territory when the the trade happened.

I don’t care about the cost, they were in win now mode and needed a stud on defense.

Worthy deal, unfortunately dudes body failed him. To act like he didn’t ball out when he was active is practically not knowing what you were seeing.

The most infamous plays he had against he was making up for a team mate screwing up. The Desean Jackson play was because Sidney Jones bum ass got out leveraged, the touchdown vs the cowboys tight end he hesitated cuz he knew Bobby can’t move faster than a corpse anymore.

His body failed him, but Jamal was a great great player when he first came into the league, he was worth that deal.

Your seriously defending the trade? You do realize the Jets couldn't get rid of him fast enough for two firsts don't you? Also, you do realize the defense actually got worse while he was out there right? They were giving up passing yards at a historical rate.

He was never tracking into Ronnie Lott/Ed Reed territory because he had pedestrian cover skills, questionable sense of where the ball was, and hands like two rocks. He did tackle well, pressure the QB, and hit hard.

Definitely not worth two firsts. He would have had to played several times better than what he did even when healthy for that trade to come close to making sense.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

We get it Pitt, the trade sucked. Nobody is denying it. Move on, eventually.

 

[NoGain]

We get it Pitt, the trade sucked. Nobody is denying it. Move on, eventually.

Come on Soul. Let people move on when they want to. People have their own processes. Not when someone tells them to.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Lighten up, he knows I'm messing with him.

 

[pittpnthrs]

We get it Pitt, the trade sucked. Nobody is denying it. Move on, eventually.

I've moved on to the fact that it was a terrible trade and it's over now, but when people say the trade was warranted, I need to know why and remind them why it wasn't.

 

[IndyHawk]

Pete's shiny toy that never fit and broke was a failure period.
The amount of capital in $$$/picks used for this failure would
get any GM fired except he was VP of football operations too!
The "We'll make it work!" was the beginning of the end for Pete.

 

[BlueTalon]

You must not have watched him in New York, dude was tracking into that territory when the the trade happened.

I don’t care about the cost, they were in win now mode and needed a stud on defense.

Worthy deal, unfortunately dudes body failed him. To act like he didn’t ball out when he was active is practically not knowing what you were seeing.

The most infamous plays he had against he was making up for a team mate screwing up. The Desean Jackson play was because Sidney Jones bum ass got out leveraged, the touchdown vs the cowboys tight end he hesitated cuz he knew Bobby can’t move faster than a corpse anymore.

His body failed him, but Jamal was a great great player when he first came into the league, he was worth that deal.

Jamal?

 

[Maelstrom787]

Your seriously defending the trade? You do realize the Jets couldn't get rid of him fast enough for two firsts don't you? Also, you do realize the defense actually got worse while he was out there right? They were giving up passing yards at a historical rate.

He was never tracking into Ronnie Lott/Ed Reed territory because he had pedestrian cover skills, questionable sense of where the ball was, and hands like two rocks. He did tackle well, pressure the QB, and hit hard.

Definitely not worth two firsts. He would have had to played several times better than what he did even when healthy for that trade to come close to making sense.

Oh, come on. There's a reasonable middle ground to be had here.

Both of these things are true:

1. The trade for Jamal Adams was bad
2. Jamal Adams was an All-Pro for 2 of his 3 years in the league at the time Seattle traded for him, and his coverage wasn't as bad as people like to claim in hindsight. And a "questionable sense of where the ball was?" Come on. Come on.

The trade was bad, but Jamal Adams WAS a marquee defensive star on an incredible trajectory.

 

[projectorfreak]

There were several times jamal looked lost or seemed to give up on a play and pointed to other guys running to the play and he just stopped , things like that were a sign to me he was either injured or didn't really care or a little of both and I didn't care he was an expensive trade or a high cap hit ,all i wanted was for him to run to the ball no matter what as sometimes it comes back your way and a couple times it did and the others , well almost eve4ry other our D just seemed defeated and got run over
Kinda felt like ja and pc were in thew same sitch , watching everything goin by and not takin the reigns and doin something about it
That lack of give a damn is why I hope he finds work elsewhere

 

[pittpnthrs]

Oh, come on. There's a reasonable middle ground to be had here.

Both of these things are true:

1. The trade for Jamal Adams was bad
2. Jamal Adams was an All-Pro for 2 of his 3 years in the league at the time Seattle traded for him, and his coverage wasn't as bad as people like to claim in hindsight. And a "questionable sense of where the ball was?" Come on. Come on.

The trade was bad, but Jamal Adams WAS a marquee defensive star on an incredible trajectory.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on a few things Mael.

Yes, he was an All-Pro and a good safety. Was he good enough for two first rounders? I don't think so. I don't think any safety is worth two first rounders, especially when the real need was an edge. I get it that Pete thought Adams was going to be a band-aid for the edge problem, but in acuality, it was a disaster. It was a situation where common sense should have trumped hopes and dreams. If you needed an edge, go get an edge. Two first rounders could have landed the answer to the actual problem.

His coverage skills were as bad as claimed. We witnessed it. Not sure why people want to sugarcoat that. He was nowhere near being a shutdown coverage guy. Also, he had issues turning his head in the right direction. We witnessed that too. And when he played the ball right and was in position for a pick, we all know how that turned out with passes bouncing off of his facemask and hands that would make Koren Robinson look like the next Chris Carter. Again, not the caliber of play people thought he was going to bring.

He was good in some aspects of the game and not so good in others. For two first rounders, he should have been great in all of them. Only a few select ever were and he wasn't one of them, so that's why the two first rounders were boarderline insanity.

 

[RiverDog]

He tore his shoulder in the final game of 2020 right? Then the criticism started coming in about poor tackling and lack of effort until he fully tore it the next season. Even then, there were still mixed opinions and some amount of optimism at the start of the following year right up until he tore his quad in the opener. You obviously remember it differently, but he's been a hot button topic for a few years now and the discussion has been about the trade value, contract value and injuries.

The torn shoulder didn't cause him to be out of position on pass plays, take bad angles tackling ball carriers, and it didn't cause easy interceptions to bounce off his face mask.

I agree that the injuries had the most impact on Adams' performance, but even if he had stayed healthy, I don't think there was any way that we were going to come out ahead on that trade. His pass coverage was always a liability, and in order to utilize his pass rushing skills, we had to sacrifice something in coverage which left us vulnerable, which is one of the reasons why our pass D was ranked dead last in 2021.

This was a bad trade from the get-go. Unless it's Earl Thomas, a single high free safety that could cover sideline-to-sideline with great instincts and ball hawking ability, no safety is worth what we paid for Adams. That's why you don't see very many safeties being taken in the top 10.

 

[James in PA]

Pete caused Covid!

 

[BigMeach]

Coaches and GMs are traditionalists. They're 'football people'. They're not bean-counters who have to justify valuations. The majority of them are fired for not being the best, (or top 3), out of 32 teams so they're incentivized to take risky gambles. The market has massively adjusted over the last 3 years as GMs have realised that they're trading for player contracts rather than talented players. If this trade had happened in the 2024 Adams might have been seen as worth a 2nd round pick. His being underpaid by about $7M+ over the remainder of the rookie contract might push the value up to a late 1st round pick.

The Rams traded Ramsey to the Dolphins for a 3rd round pick. They traded a lot more to get him about 3 years before that. His performance didn't fall off a cliff, but the market changed.

That'd be a good point if the same year this didn't happen:

"The San Francisco 49ers announced on Saturday they have acquired seven-time Pro Bowl T Trent Williams from the Washington Redskins in exchange for a fifth-round pick (156th overall) in the 2020 NFL Draft and a third-round pick in the 2021 NFL Draft. Williams must pass a physical for the trade to be executed."

 

[BASF]

That'd be a good point if the same year this didn't happen:

"The San Francisco 49ers announced on Saturday they have acquired seven-time Pro Bowl T Trent Williams from the Washington Redskins in exchange for a fifth-round pick (156th overall) in the 2020 NFL Draft and a third-round pick in the 2021 NFL Draft. Williams must pass a physical for the trade to be executed."

Do you think that Williams being seven years older and had only one second team All-Pro five years before during his nine year career to that point, while Adams had been at least second team All-Pro in each of his three seasons might have had something to do with the price difference?

 

[keasley45]

Well, Keasely45 defended this shit. Let’s see him use mental gymnastics about this new report.

Bro. What evidence at all is there in this piece that it was Carrolls decision to get Jamal? Any? Or just thr opinion of the writer?

Heres some for you :
John Schneider has shown to be a stand-up dude. Humble in receiving praise, and honest about failures. In his last interview about Jamal and everything that went down, you know what he regretted? Not getting him, but how he was used. Here:



2. And in terms or praise after 'overpaying' for Jamal, who did the personnel department guve credit to? See the quote below and what Trent Kirschner said when asked about what the FO thought in trading for Jamal:

'After the 2020 season, Seahawks personnel lieutenant Trent Kirchner confirmed that was their thinking.

“John pretty much nailed that one,” Kirchner said. “That was talked about when we did it. It was discussed in terms of, ‘The amount of information we’ll have next year, who knows what it’s going to be?’ So looking back at it, you’re looking at Jamal Adams as your first-round pick, you’re elated.”

3. John, NOT Pete, has gone on record saying that what the team has been missing since the LOB are players with an intimidation factor, confidemce and the talent to match. Pete loved the 'awe shucks', diamond in the rough, story. John? Even the anti Pete crowd trumpets how over the last few years, the difference has been that we've drafted for ability, not 'chips' or the great story. John is and has been since 2019 /20 trying to shift the balance of the team to what it was. Jamal, at the time was the epitiomy of what John wants. Incomparable talent with the bravado to match. Was Pete just along for the ride? I dont think so. But of the 2, given whats come out of the mouth of Schneider and Kirchner, the trade had John's stamp all over it.

Pete? He took the guy that John has gine and record saying he wanted to bring in to be versatile and play LB and FORCED him to play a traditional Safety roll.

There is no mental gymnastics used in
A. Applying the same logic and reasoning to a subject that one of the best GM's in the league did
B. Looking at the evidence in reading in between the lines to see who wanted what from the trade and the thought process behind the GM who pulled it off.

 

[keasley45]

I will say though that the idea that Pete botched things isnt necessaril wrong. I just think the reason is for the stupid way he chose to use Jamal. John has preached versatility and flexing the D to suit your players. So much so that he hired a coach who beleives in it as much as he does.

Pete beleived in the players fitting the system... to a fault. THAT was the failure - FORCING Jamal to play in the defense the way Pete wanted him to, rather than seeing it John's way and putting Jamal in the spot that would maximize his ability.

The trade didnt HAVE to be a failure. Utilization and ultimately injury made it so. THAT much you can feel when you listen to Schneider talk about it.

 

[NoGain]

I don't know. Of course JS is going to put such a spin on things. That's normal for a man of his character and his respect for PC. But I still don't believe for a minute that JS makes that trade without PC.