Pete Carroll and his BONEHEAD moves.

[titan3131]

Bringing up how successful Carroll has been for us is not what i want to talk about. I merely wanted to point out a pattern where we seem to lose BIG BALL PETE, and he mind F's himself into making overthought calls that backfire.

Board members reacting saying fire him sarcastically or not, you are not contributing anything to the discussion and it is not appreciated.

This offseason is slow until the draft and I would like something to talk about, if you want to be sarcastic and contribute nothing the shack and facebook are that way ------------->

The SB final play, A USC game in 2006 and a game from 1997 doesn't constitute a pattern of behavior. The high profile nature of the first two examples only aids the success of Pete's approach as it's his approach that got them to those games.

Ignoring the times that high risk plays worked in our favor (4th down hard count to Kearse NFCCG 2014) doesn't prove your point either.

Replying to your comments with sarcasm is an effective way to disagree with your points and rejecting your premise. It doesn't automatically make your arguments any more persuasive.

First, The 4th down in the NFC conference game call came from RUSSELL, Carroll just trusted him. I am not ignoring them. Carrolls philosophy is win forever, not 50% of the time. So I expect these great moments, and I bring this up to evaluate the devastating mistakes / bad calls that have happened.

And you know that is what I think is the solution. As Russell grows I expect him to be @ a Manning level of running the offense where he can call all his own plays.

Second, the examples I provided were high profile examples. there are many small stupid calls that happen week to week. BUBBLE SCREENS ANYONE?

Thirdly, if you disagree these are bad calls then fine. My post was to bring up ANOTHER instance where Carroll made a call that effectively lost a BIG GAME.

I firmly believe that once we give Russell the reins completely we can limit these BIG GAME MOMENTS to a 95/5 Success to failure ratio.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Bringing up how successful Carroll has been for us is not what i want to talk about. I merely wanted to point out a pattern where we seem to lose BIG BALL PETE, and he mind F's himself into making overthought calls that backfire.

Board members reacting saying fire him sarcastically or not, you are not contributing anything to the discussion and it is not appreciated.

This offseason is slow until the draft and I would like something to talk about, if you want to be sarcastic and contribute nothing the shack and facebook are that way ------------->

The SB final play, A USC game in 2006 and a game from 1997 doesn't constitute a pattern of behavior. The high profile nature of the first two examples only aids the success of Pete's approach as it's his approach that got them to those games.

Ignoring the times that high risk plays worked in our favor (4th down hard count to Kearse NFCCG 2014) doesn't prove your point either.

Replying to your comments with sarcasm is an effective way to disagree with your points and rejecting your premise. It doesn't automatically make your arguments any more persuasive.

First, The 4th down in the NFC conference game call came from RUSSELL, Carroll just trusted him. I am not ignoring them. Carrolls philosophy is win forever, not 50% of the time. So I expect these great moments, and I bring this up to evaluate the devastating mistakes / bad calls that have happened.

And you know that is what I think is the solution. As Russell grows I expect him to be @ a Manning level of running the offense where he can call all his own plays.

Second, the examples I provided were high profile examples. there are many small stupid calls that happen week to week. BUBBLE SCREENS ANYONE?

Thirdly, if you disagree these are bad calls then fine. My post was to bring up ANOTHER instance where Carroll made a call that effectively lost a BIG GAME.

I firmly believe that once we give Russell the reins completely we can limit these BIG GAME MOMENTS to a 95/5 Success to failure ratio.

Can you link me to the story that reported Pete Carroll now calls all the offensive plays? I apparently missed it

Of course, the lone exception being when the plays work.. then it's all Russell.

 

[titan3131]

Bringing up how successful Carroll has been for us is not what i want to talk about. I merely wanted to point out a pattern where we seem to lose BIG BALL PETE, and he mind F's himself into making overthought calls that backfire.

Board members reacting saying fire him sarcastically or not, you are not contributing anything to the discussion and it is not appreciated.

This offseason is slow until the draft and I would like something to talk about, if you want to be sarcastic and contribute nothing the shack and facebook are that way ------------->

So what do you want from this topic? Do you want to be the 5 millionth person to question the SB49 call? Fantastic. More power to you.

Every coach will make questionable decisions.. sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

In Pete's case.. I'd say more often than not they work. And that's why he's won a lot more games than he's lost while being coach of the Seahawks.

I want opinions and conversation to kill the offseason time. Specifically about the bad calls we have seen.

Maybe its my own version of tell the truth monday a day late.

do you remember the stat that when marshawn runs the ball X amount of time we are almost 100% win percentage?

we ran the ball like 7 times in SD. That is another instance in my opinion in which SOMEONE messed up calls. I could be wrong but thats what I think.

 

[titan3131]

Carroll is a good boss and takes responsibility for his employees mistakes and bad calls.

In the SB he said "Throw the ball"

 

[Sgt. Largent]

we ran the ball like 7 times in SD. That is another instance in my opinion in which SOMEONE messed up calls. I could be wrong but thats what I think.

It's not rocket science, when your defense lets the other team have 85% of the possession wearing themselves out giving up 10 minute drive after 10 minute drive, your offense isn't going to get a chance to establish the run game.

Look at our offensive drives of the SD game. Run for one yard, incompletion, incompletion, punt.

To indict Pete for play calling in the SD game is dumb. Pete's the REASON just about every other copycat team in the league is studying our tape on how to become a nasty run first ball control ram it down your throat team. So we're nitpicking one game where our defense was awful and our offense had the ball like four times? Brilliant criticism!

 

[Year of The Hawk]

It is easy to sit here and be critical but things are done for reasons. Hindsight is 20-20. The guy takes some risks. IMHO they work out more than fail but you still have to live with he fails. Lets not be to harsh on his fails when his wins has produced what it has. I am sure Pete has regrets but he does learn from his mistakes.

BTW what other coach would you rather have? None are without fault.

 

[White Devil]

You get sarcastic replies when you bring up topics that have already been beaten to death. Adding the USC call isn't anything new, it's already been talked about ad nauseam.

You point out a pattern. The only pattern I see is a winning coach and the most successful 4 year stint in franchise history.

Pete is a head coach who allows his players to play, his captains to lead, and his coaches to coach.

The bubble screens are not his call. That's his OC.

The 4th down pass wasn't Wilson's call. Pete asked for an opinion and liked the response, so he went for it.



The entire point of your OP is tired.

Ask yourself this question. Would you rather he wasn't the Seahawks Head Coach?

 

[titan3131]

2nd half boneheaded drives.

Seattle at 11:32 SEA SDG
1st and 10 at SEA 20 (11:32) PENALTY on SEA-Z.Miller, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 20 - No Play. 14 20
1st and 15 at SEA 15 (11:32) (Shotgun) R.Lockette right end to SEA 17 for 2 yards (R.Marshall).
2nd and 13 at SEA 17 (10:51) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to M.Lynch to SEA 25 for 8 yards (E.Weddle, M.Gilchrist).
3rd and 5 at SEA 25 (10:01) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short left. Penalty on SEA-Z.Miller, Offensive Pass Interference, declined.

Seattle at 3:04 SEA SDG
1st and 10 at SEA 11 (3:04) (Shotgun) P.Harvin left end to SEA 5 for -6 yards (S.Wright). 21 27
2nd and 16 at SEA 5 (2:25) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to M.Lynch to SEA 9 for 4 yards (M.Ingram, M.Gilchrist).
Two-Minute Warning
3rd and 12 at SEA 9 (2:00) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to M.Lynch to SEA 10 for 1 yard (D.Stuckey).
Timeout #2 by SEA at 01:51.
4th and 11 at SEA 10 (1:51) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete deep right to J.Kearse. PENALTY on SEA-Z.Miller, Personal Foul, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 10.

I think these drives were dumb play calls.

WE ARE BLESSED TO HAVE CARROLL.

I am just asking for peoples thoughts on why these moments happen.

 

[Foghawk]

 

[White Devil]

2nd half boneheaded drives.

Seattle at 11:32 SEA SDG
1st and 10 at SEA 20 (11:32) PENALTY on SEA-Z.Miller, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 20 - No Play. 14 20
1st and 15 at SEA 15 (11:32) (Shotgun) R.Lockette right end to SEA 17 for 2 yards (R.Marshall).
2nd and 13 at SEA 17 (10:51) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to M.Lynch to SEA 25 for 8 yards (E.Weddle, M.Gilchrist).
3rd and 5 at SEA 25 (10:01) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short left. Penalty on SEA-Z.Miller, Offensive Pass Interference, declined.

Seattle at 3:04 SEA SDG
1st and 10 at SEA 11 (3:04) (Shotgun) P.Harvin left end to SEA 5 for -6 yards (S.Wright). 21 27
2nd and 16 at SEA 5 (2:25) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to M.Lynch to SEA 9 for 4 yards (M.Ingram, M.Gilchrist).
Two-Minute Warning
3rd and 12 at SEA 9 (2:00) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to M.Lynch to SEA 10 for 1 yard (D.Stuckey).
Timeout #2 by SEA at 01:51.
4th and 11 at SEA 10 (1:51) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete deep right to J.Kearse. PENALTY on SEA-Z.Miller, Personal Foul, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 10.

I think these drives were dumb play calls.

WE ARE BLESSED TO HAVE CARROLL.

I am just asking for peoples thoughts on why these moments happen.

Brillant analysis.

These moments happen because it's real life, not Madden. You want TD's on every play?

Insanity.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

2nd half boneheaded drives.

Seattle at 11:32 SEA SDG
1st and 10 at SEA 20 (11:32) PENALTY on SEA-Z.Miller, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 20 - No Play. 14 20
1st and 15 at SEA 15 (11:32) (Shotgun) R.Lockette right end to SEA 17 for 2 yards (R.Marshall).
2nd and 13 at SEA 17 (10:51) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to M.Lynch to SEA 25 for 8 yards (E.Weddle, M.Gilchrist).
3rd and 5 at SEA 25 (10:01) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short left. Penalty on SEA-Z.Miller, Offensive Pass Interference, declined.

Seattle at 3:04 SEA SDG
1st and 10 at SEA 11 (3:04) (Shotgun) P.Harvin left end to SEA 5 for -6 yards (S.Wright). 21 27
2nd and 16 at SEA 5 (2:25) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to M.Lynch to SEA 9 for 4 yards (M.Ingram, M.Gilchrist).
Two-Minute Warning
3rd and 12 at SEA 9 (2:00) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to M.Lynch to SEA 10 for 1 yard (D.Stuckey).
Timeout #2 by SEA at 01:51.
4th and 11 at SEA 10 (1:51) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete deep right to J.Kearse. PENALTY on SEA-Z.Miller, Personal Foul, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 10.

I think these drives were dumb play calls.

WE ARE BLESSED TO HAVE CARROLL.

I am just asking for peoples thoughts on why these moments happen.

Why do offensive penalties happen to push your offense into obvious passing plays? idk, ask any coach that, cause I'm sure he'd love to have the magic elixer to stop dumb penalties.

Listing two drives out of entire seasons to make a point is again dumb, if you want to criticize Pete for not running the ball you're talking to the wrong fans. We run the ball more than anyone in the league, so I'm not sure what your deal is taking that stance.

 

[iigakusei]

If Lockette scores the narrative quickly goes to how Bellichek is a complete BONEHEAD for not calling a timeout. Instead Bellichek is the GOAT. Stuff happens, looking forward to see what this year will bring.

 

[titan3131]

2nd half boneheaded drives.

Seattle at 11:32 SEA SDG
1st and 10 at SEA 20 (11:32) PENALTY on SEA-Z.Miller, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 20 - No Play. 14 20
1st and 15 at SEA 15 (11:32) (Shotgun) R.Lockette right end to SEA 17 for 2 yards (R.Marshall).
2nd and 13 at SEA 17 (10:51) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to M.Lynch to SEA 25 for 8 yards (E.Weddle, M.Gilchrist).
3rd and 5 at SEA 25 (10:01) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short left. Penalty on SEA-Z.Miller, Offensive Pass Interference, declined.

Seattle at 3:04 SEA SDG
1st and 10 at SEA 11 (3:04) (Shotgun) P.Harvin left end to SEA 5 for -6 yards (S.Wright). 21 27
2nd and 16 at SEA 5 (2:25) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to M.Lynch to SEA 9 for 4 yards (M.Ingram, M.Gilchrist).
Two-Minute Warning
3rd and 12 at SEA 9 (2:00) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to M.Lynch to SEA 10 for 1 yard (D.Stuckey).
Timeout #2 by SEA at 01:51.
4th and 11 at SEA 10 (1:51) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete deep right to J.Kearse. PENALTY on SEA-Z.Miller, Personal Foul, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 10.

I think these drives were dumb play calls.

WE ARE BLESSED TO HAVE CARROLL.

I am just asking for peoples thoughts on why these moments happen.

Why do offensive penalties happen to push your offense into obvious passing plays? idk, ask any coach that, cause I'm sure he'd love to have the magic elixer to stop dumb penalties.

Listing two drives out of entire seasons to make a point is again dumb, if you want to criticize Pete for not running the ball you're talking to the wrong fans. We run the ball more than anyone in the league, so I'm not sure what your deal is taking that stance.

If you dont remember this was the time where we had burned GB with harvin and it didnt work against SD, all those screens and gadget plays were flopping terribly. So you dont think that it was dumb to run a jet sweep with LOCKETTE when it hadnt worked earlier with a better player in harvin, I would have preferred anything to that.

and then the final drive started with harvin opening the drive and losing 6 yards. When did we run ML last and lose 6 yards?

Harvin was a bust we all agree. All I am saying is that Carroll has had big moment failures with different staffs, and he took credit for the SB so he is responsible for his staff now and their decisions.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

He just needs to quit getting cute, and when the game is on the line, follow long-standing plays/procedures that have the odds going for them. Stop with the overthinking or as he calls it "getting hormonal."

If he "quits getting cute" he kicks a field goal instead of Ryan throwing a pivotal TD pass, Chris Matthews is still hunting his first career TD because we kick a FG with 6 seconds left in the first half of the SB, he tells Russell we're not even going to bother trotting out the offense on 4th and 7 in the NFCCG.

What you get if you get rid of those is a passive coach like Mike McCarthy who followed long-standing plays/procedures to try and run out the clock and got lambasted for not being aggressive enough and letting the Seahawks back into the game.

Damn straight.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

If you dont remember this was the time where we had burned GB with harvin and it didnt work against SD, all those screens and gadget plays were flopping terribly. So you dont think that it was dumb to run a jet sweep with LOCKETTE when it hadnt worked earlier with a better player in harvin, I would have preferred anything to that.

Didn't Harvin score a TD on a similar screen in the first half?

Again, you're hindsight criticizing and nitpicking, to zero success. Pick out a loss of any NFL team in the history of the league and you will find plenty of reasons for those losses.

IMO if we're nitpicking the SD game, I blame the defense far more than the offense or playcalling. This version of the Hawks defense DOES NOT allow another team to possess the ball 80-85% of the game, and complete 3rd down after 3rd down.

SD played better than us that day, plain and simple............and even then Pete and Russell had us in a position to make a last drive to win the game, just didn't work out.

 

[DavidSeven]

I am just asking for peoples thoughts on why these moments happen.

Because football is a highly variable sport where any given strategy could the result huge success or huge disaster. The ones who shy away from variability often choke away games anyway (see: Mike McCarthy) or leave you even more frustrated (see: Holmgren).

And now we're cherry-picking games from Week 2. Great, let's compare the SD game to NEP/KC where Belichick got his butt handed to him by Andy Reid and Alex Smith.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

2nd half boneheaded drives.

Seattle at 11:32 SEA SDG
1st and 10 at SEA 20 (11:32) PENALTY on SEA-Z.Miller, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 20 - No Play. 14 20
1st and 15 at SEA 15 (11:32) (Shotgun) R.Lockette right end to SEA 17 for 2 yards (R.Marshall).
2nd and 13 at SEA 17 (10:51) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short left to M.Lynch to SEA 25 for 8 yards (E.Weddle, M.Gilchrist).
3rd and 5 at SEA 25 (10:01) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete short left. Penalty on SEA-Z.Miller, Offensive Pass Interference, declined.

Seattle at 3:04 SEA SDG
1st and 10 at SEA 11 (3:04) (Shotgun) P.Harvin left end to SEA 5 for -6 yards (S.Wright). 21 27
2nd and 16 at SEA 5 (2:25) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short right to M.Lynch to SEA 9 for 4 yards (M.Ingram, M.Gilchrist).
Two-Minute Warning
3rd and 12 at SEA 9 (2:00) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass short middle to M.Lynch to SEA 10 for 1 yard (D.Stuckey).
Timeout #2 by SEA at 01:51.
4th and 11 at SEA 10 (1:51) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass incomplete deep right to J.Kearse. PENALTY on SEA-Z.Miller, Personal Foul, 5 yards, enforced at SEA 10.

I think these drives were dumb play calls.

WE ARE BLESSED TO HAVE CARROLL.

I am just asking for peoples thoughts on why these moments happen.

Your thesis is fallacious.

 

[volsunghawk]

I am just asking for peoples thoughts on why these moments happen.

Um, because football? :|

 

[chris98251]

Complain about Carroll, fine but his gutsy calls have also allowed us to win games, he is ahead in the gambles he takes overall in my book, just one that was on the biggest stage didn't work out. Yes I would have ran the ball or done a Wilson roll out option there over what he did or Bevell did. Pete took the heat for that as well as Lockette and Wilson.

But lets also look at what Holmgren or Knox would have done, chances are with our personnel they would have never made it to the Super Bowl.

Holmgren was about execution and being conservative and not taking risks unless you are behind.

Knox biggest issue was his lack of faith in a QB and WR, his passing game was a second thought and it killed him in the post season, also very conservative in his approach.

Both coaches had great percentages in the win column, but would drive us completely crazy with predictability.


So we have a coach that wins with defense and the run game, sets up the big play and it's hit or miss, takes a unconventional approach in some situations and has his share of success and failure. some of it is the calls, some of it is the execution, all of it unpredictable.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

Not everyone is perfect, not even Pete.