Penny & our RB situation

AgentDib

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At this time of the season we are building our roster for training camp and we want a diverse mix of RBs. Right now we just have Homer, Dallas and Penny so we're going to be adding quite a few RBs to the mix.

Penny is a useful piece in the upcoming competition as he should be healthy and on the last year of his rookie deal. At the same time, this will be his final opportunity here. The odds of him being back in 2022 are low and would require a strong 2021 season. If he stays healthy and plays well then he could be effective as an early down RB with stretch outside zone. We'll add plenty of RBs to compete here.

Both Homer and Dallas have the pass protecting and pass catching abilities to be effective third down backs, but neither has done particularly well so far in the NFL. Depending on how much the FO thinks Dallas should improve we could add multiple RBs here as well.

Stevie Scott would be an intriguing late round/UDFA pick here who ticks most of the boxes that we want; tough downhill runner with great balance who catches the ball with his hands and doesn't turn it over.
 

kf3339

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Vesuve":26n62ko7 said:
Hawks2022":26n62ko7 said:
The RB position is so simple to figure out, its ridiculas! Every 7 years, draft the best running back in the class who is enormous and is very fast.
Harris from Alabama can be had late in the 1st

Yes, they need a RB in the draft, IMO.

Carson may be gone and Penny will never pan out.

With much more pressing needs, I would be very disappointed if we took an RB in this draft.
 

pittpnthrs

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Thepeelsessions":f9g4z0sf said:
pittpnthrs":f9g4z0sf said:
Collins will start ahead of Penny if Carson goes.
Don't be ridiculous.

I was a big Penny truther forever. But the ball is in his court. He needs to show up. I doubt they pick up his 5th year option, so he needs to prove his worth.

Not being ridiculous at all. Collins is a proven back in the league that runs hard and will pick up the short yardage when needed. What has Penny done so far,,,,,,,,nothing. Its great you think this season will be Pennys turning point, but it wont be.
 

jamescasey1124

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Man...why are the haters of players more opinionated then supporters of players? Also more vocal about it?

I dont think Carson walks. If he does then penny will be great. No one bothered to look up his stats.

4.9 yards a carry and 5.7 yards a carry 2018 and 2019

11 total carries in 2020.

Not worried if penny takes over. He hasnt proved anything or he has had his chance. Sorry...a running back isnt given a chance until he shoulders it full time. Let's see 3 games in a row with him as a starter first. Hopefully it shuts up all the crybabies.
 

Own The West

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I still think Penny can pan out. He came in his rookie year fat and out of shape, learned his lesson, and came in the next year ready to play and was having a good year before he tore his ACL. Last year was truncated by his recovery, but he was healthy at the end of the year and should be in great shape again to start 2021.

ACLs are a part of football. He didn't have Curt Warner skittishness behind the line at the end of last year, so I expect him to be fully back and then some.
 
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TraderGary

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AgentDib":1m52m268 said:
At this time of the season we are building our roster for training camp and we want a diverse mix of RBs. Right now we just have Homer, Dallas and Penny so we're going to be adding quite a few RBs to the mix.

Penny is a useful piece in the upcoming competition as he should be healthy and on the last year of his rookie deal. At the same time, this will be his final opportunity here. The odds of him being back in 2022 are low and would require a strong 2021 season. If he stays healthy and plays well then he could be effective as an early down RB with stretch outside zone. We'll add plenty of RBs to compete here.

Both Homer and Dallas have the pass protecting and pass catching abilities to be effective third down backs, but neither has done particularly well so far in the NFL. Depending on how much the FO thinks Dallas should improve we could add multiple RBs here as well.

Stevie Scott would be an intriguing late round/UDFA pick here who ticks most of the boxes that we want; tough downhill runner with great balance who catches the ball with his hands and doesn't turn it over.
We also recently just re-signed Collins for 2021.
 
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TraderGary

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Thepeelsessions":3hcvilat said:
pittpnthrs":3hcvilat said:
Collins will start ahead of Penny if Carson goes.
Don't be ridiculous.

I was a big Penny truther forever. But the ball is in his court. He needs to show up. I doubt they pick up his 5th year option, so he needs to prove his worth.
I agree, 2021 is a make-or-break year for him. But Carroll needs to give him some steady work. Coming in for a couple carries every 2 or 3 series does not give you much of an indication what he's capable of.
 
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TraderGary

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xray":q6awdbud said:
Penny is 3rd on the depth chart and should of been a 3rd round draft pick at best . Not close to a 1st round pick . IMO
I agree, he was a major reach when he was drafted, but the FO obviously saw something they really liked about him. All I'm saying is give him a chance to prove on the field what he can do, and what the FO saw in him when he was selected. I would argue that he has never been given that opportunity, even when healthy. His carries have been VERY sporadic at best.
 
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TraderGary

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TheLegendOfBoom":plw12mwl said:
Penny has had time and time again to take the reigns and be the “guy” but he has time and time again shown he cannot seize any opportunities. Carson kept winning the touches.

And when Penny played, he can barely put together of back to back games without getting hurt.

Penny is not the guy. He’s just about as much of the guy as Prosise was. You thought he was/talented but he just doesn’t see the field because he cannot stay on the field.
I disagree. To my recollection, he has never really been given the reigns. Carson has always been the feature back, and probably deservedly so. And even when Carson was hurt, Carroll used a RB by committee approach.

You can't expect any RB in history to get into any type of rhythm with a few sporadic carries a game. It just doesn't happen. And I would also argue that he has been entirely misused by Carroll (big surprise), primarily running him in the A-gap and expecting him to bounce off tacklers ala CC and ML.

The rare instances when Penny was given the reigns, (as outlined in Corbin Smith's article in the back-to-back games against the Vikings and Eagles), he was impressive, and that was in a scheme that wasn't suited to his skillset.

And for those arguing that he can't stay healthy, well you could say the same about CC. Obviously knee injuries are very common among RB's. Does that make him injury prone?
 
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TraderGary

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TheLegendOfBoom":1jt5gq6y said:
TraderGary":1jt5gq6y said:
knownone":1jt5gq6y said:
Penny has the talent, and he's a perfect fit in Waldron's scheme. The problem is he's shown both positive and negative flashes. There are times where he looks like prime Alexander with his vision in the open field. And others where he looks like 30 year-old Alexander falling down in the backfield.

I still believe he can be an elite RB in the league. But I don't think any of us are going to hold our breath on that outcome happening.
I think that's a fair assessment. I just think he should be given the opportunity in an offensive scheme that is more tailored to his skillset. In the past, PC has tried to turn him into something he's not, a carbon copy of CC and ML, bouncing off tacklers. That's just not who he is. Penny is great on the edges and in space, something that should play very well in Waldron's schemes.

He should be fully recovered from his knee injury and I'm anxious to see what he can do in the new scheme.
Carroll’s offensive line isn’t built to play with what you believe are Penny’s strengths.
Well if they're going to run Waldon's offense to it's full potential, that's going to have to be fixed. I fully expect a new starting center and left-guard this offseason, and not someone off the scrap heap like last year.

Carroll’s offensive line is all vanilla and really is a wait for this hole here to be open and then go.
I fully expect that to change in the Waldron scheme.

Penny doesn’t have great vision and doesn’t understand when to hit a hole.
That may very well be true, but I would argue that we really don't know that as fact because Penny has never been given regular opportunities to carry the ball consistently and get into any type of rhythm.

Penny plays primarily off instinct and athletic ability and Carroll’s offensive line, with the OL coach, you must understand what gaps will be open for a second and you must hit that hole at that time.
I think any good NFL RB plays off instinct and athletic ability. That's what I would want in my feature back. If they're overthinking it, they're doomed to failure. As far as knowing which gaps should be open, that's coaching. If Penny doesn't understand that, that's a coaching failure.

Penny is incapable of understanding when the front side or back side gaps will open and then go.
Are you basing that strictly on eye test? Even if true, again I would argue that comes with time and experience, and given the opportunity to get into a rhythm, something that has rarely if ever been given to him. Also, again a lot of that comes down to coaching.

He hasn’t shown anything to give confidence he can be the premier back.
Prior to blowing his knee out in 2019, he was really coming into his own, and as I recall, I remember a lot of people on this board eating crow and saying maybe they rushed to judgement and were wrong about him. That perhaps he can be a very effective RB in the NFL after all.

Look, as I said in a previous post, I don't expect him to be the next Walter Payton. But I think people are jumping to conclusions too quickly. He has never been given the opportunity to show what he can do. I'm just saying give him a chance to be the feature back in a new offense, and let's see what he can do. There was obviously a reason they selected him in the 1st round. He is not devoid of talent. My fear is that they will not give him a legitimate shot, and he will move on to another team and turn into a top 10 RB in the league. And maybe he is a bust as most are saying. But I would argue that none of us really know that, possibly even the coaching staff. How many times have they been wrong about a player in the past only to see them move on and excel with another organization.
He just isn’t.
 
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TraderGary

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Maelstrom787":cw5z285y said:
Penny has the talent, but his career has been so heavily derailed by injuries that it'd be best to pretend he isn't there and enjoy the brief spark he provides whenever he comes back.

We didn't just hire Waldron at OC... we hired Dickerson to coordinate the run game. A zone rushing attack is gonna make most running backs with decent vision look pretty good.

I'm not panicking. Late round/UDFA and free agent bodies at the spot, and roll with it.
That's probably my biggest concern with Penny. Not sure about his vision. But let's see how that vision is when he's given an opportunity to get into a rhythm.

Injuries happen. You see RB's blow out knees every year in the NFL. It's commonplace. As for the other injuries, well you could say the same about CC, but how many people here want to see him re-signed by the Hawks?

The offensive style/scheme the Hawks have run in the past is very punishing for RB's. Hopefully that will change in the Waldron scheme.
 
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TraderGary

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jamescasey1124":2l9u23gc said:
Man...why are the haters of players more opinionated then supporters of players? Also more vocal about it?

I dont think Carson walks. If he does then penny will be great. No one bothered to look up his stats.

4.9 yards a carry and 5.7 yards a carry 2018 and 2019

11 total carries in 2020.

Not worried if penny takes over. He hasnt proved anything or he has had his chance. Sorry...a running back isnt given a chance until he shoulders it full time. Let's see 3 games in a row with him as a starter first. Hopefully it shuts up all the crybabies.


Thank you!
 

CelticWolf12

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It all depends on how much Waldron/Dickerson are able (or are allowed) to scheme here in Seattle. If they are here to run Pete's offense exclusively, Penny doesn't fit that style. If Waldron/Dickerson are able to implement their running back by committee, deceptive formations, lots of motion, zone blocking and catching the ball out of the backfield style like in LA (Brown, Henderson, Akers, etc.), Penny will be able to accomplish some big things IMO. Seattle already has Penny, Collins, Dallas and Homer @RB. Perhaps adding Malcolm Brown to the mix would be beneficial, as he already knows Waldron's offense and should be relatively inexpensive.

Go Hawks!
 
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TraderGary

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Celtic Wolff":1y4ubghu said:
It all depends on how much Waldron/Dickerson are able (or are allowed) to scheme here in Seattle. If they are here to run Pete's offense exclusively, Penny doesn't fit that style. If Waldron/Dickerson are able to implement their running back by committee, deceptive formations, lots of motion, zone blocking and catching the ball out of the backfield style like in LA (Brown, Henderson, Akers, etc.), Penny will be able to accomplish some big things IMO. Seattle already has Penny, Collins, Dallas and Homer @RB. Perhaps adding Malcolm Brown to the mix would be beneficial, as he already knows Waldron's offense and should be relatively inexpensive.

Go Hawks!
Excellent post, and I agree!
 

xray

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If Penny is healthy right now ; move him ASAP . :D
 
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TraderGary

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xray":3q0hnm3r said:
If Penny is healthy right now ; move him ASAP . :D
Why would you sell low on him? As it stands right now, because of his lack of exposure, you'd be lucky to get a 5th rounder. He's more valuable on the Hawks.
 

pittpnthrs

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TraderGary":1dpx7pbl said:
I agree, he was a major reach when he was drafted, but the FO obviously saw something they really liked about him. All I'm saying is give him a chance to prove on the field what he can do, and what the FO saw in him when he was selected. I would argue that he has never been given that opportunity, even when healthy. His carries have been VERY sporadic at best.

Collins should be afforded this same luxury too. Never understood why Carroll wouldnt use him. Guy gets traded to the Ravens and has a 1,000 yard season. Comes back here and averages over 4.5 yards a carry with sporadic carries. Pete needs to feed him.
 

Own The West

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pittpnthrs":38lvwdad said:
TraderGary":38lvwdad said:
I agree, he was a major reach when he was drafted, but the FO obviously saw something they really liked about him. All I'm saying is give him a chance to prove on the field what he can do, and what the FO saw in him when he was selected. I would argue that he has never been given that opportunity, even when healthy. His carries have been VERY sporadic at best.

Collins should be afforded this same luxury too. Never understood why Carroll wouldnt use him. Guy gets traded to the Ravens and has a 1,000 yard season. Comes back here and averages over 4.5 yards a carry with sporadic carries. Pete needs to feed him.

Collins was still learning the game his first stint here. He couldn't pass pro. He'd stop behind the line instead of hitting the hole. Played out of control, got tripped up by arm tackles. Gave up too many negative plays.

Pretty common for rookies.
 

LegendKiller

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pittpnthrs":3isg9xei said:
TraderGary":3isg9xei said:
I agree, he was a major reach when he was drafted, but the FO obviously saw something they really liked about him. All I'm saying is give him a chance to prove on the field what he can do, and what the FO saw in him when he was selected. I would argue that he has never been given that opportunity, even when healthy. His carries have been VERY sporadic at best.

Collins should be afforded this same luxury too. Never understood why Carroll wouldnt use him. Guy gets traded to the Ravens and has a 1,000 yard season. Comes back here and averages over 4.5 yards a carry with sporadic carries. Pete needs to feed him.


What's that? You're asking for Pete Carroll to use common sense and adjust his gameplan? Stop the madness!
 
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