Not Blaming The D

[pittpnthrs]

I think everyone knows that Geno has had some struggles lately but he still is one of the most accurate passers in the league. Personally I think what we (and Geno specifically) need to succeed is for us to get back to pounding the rock to set up the pass. Even run failures can help set up the pass if you are sticking to the run. Problem is even in success ( see Browns game) we are still choosing passing plays over running plays way too much and way too early.

Everybody says this like its so obvious and easy. Its hard to pound the rock when the opposing defense is stacking the line and begging for you to throw against them. In Seattles case, they need to throw in order to set up the run. That's where the problem starts.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Run the ball. It's that simple. It's what Pete and Waldron have gotten away from. You have to be willing to struggle through 1st and even 2nd quarters if you want to stick with the run sometimes. Especially against good defenses.

Problem with this Sarge is by the time you get to the 3rd quarter your already down by 20 points and running the ball is no longer an option. Its not as easy as your making it out to be. When its working its great, but when its not, your screwed. The offense needs to be balanced to open up both options.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

How often are the Hawks down 20 points in games? Fairly rare.

 

[pittpnthrs]

43 to 8 is proof that "VERY good QB's" or even Stratospherically GREAT QB's don't always come away with a win in "Huge Games" especially when facing Superior Defenses.

You keep pointing to this game without bringing up the context. First, the game was played when the NFL allowed the defense to mug people. The NFL changed the rules because of that defense. Secondly, the Broncos actually did what they were supposed to do on offense to win that game with the short dink and dunks. Problem was they faced a historically good, HOF defense that the likes of will probably not be seen again in our lifetime. While your correct in that good defenses can win games, your wrong with your example because the league is different now.

 

[pittpnthrs]

How often are the Hawks down 20 points in games? Fairly rare.

They arent because they arent forcing the run and giving up two quarters like Sarge mentioned.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

They don't suck, that's a good reason they rarely get blown out.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Problem with this Sarge is by the time you get to the 3rd quarter your already down by 20 points and running the ball is no longer an option. Its not as easy as your making it out to be. When its working its great, but when its not, your screwed. The offense needs to be balanced to open up both options.

Ravens game aside, our defense has kept us in every game in the 1st half, even down a score or 10 pts.

So being down 20 points IMO is not something I'd worry about other than an outlier game against elite teams like the Ravens.

My point is with a QB like Geno, you don't really have a choice. He goes as the run game goes. If you can't figure out how to get the run game going? You're dead in the water cause Geno's not the kind of QB who's going to put the team on his shoulders down 17+.

He's just not.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

No doubt. Coming back from a big lead? He hasn't done that since he's been here. Not his jam.
Give him time in the pocket, he can sling it and get work done.

 

[hawks85]

Just STOP = Great advise, maybe YOU should follow it, eh?
43 TO 8 is what a really good Defense DID to a "Good/Great" Peyton Manning, it's PROOF that SH*T HAPPENS and not even the greatest of the GREATEST can "Adjust And Figure it Out".
I guess that the Seahawks Defense had " Recent Tape to Study" when they beat Bill Billicheat & Tom Brady in that game @ Foxboro, because he "COULDN'T FIGURE THIS SHIT OUT"
So now we know, you've "Never Been Sold on Geno, Never" = I DON'T CARE!

And I don't care that you don't care. Peyton had one bad game against Seattle in the SB. Peyton didn't have 8 turn overs in 4 games leading up to the super bowl, so, yes, Peyton had a bad game. Geno needs to figure this out real quick.

 

[flv2]

It was an above average team against an elite team that was firing on all cylinders. People can blame whatever they want. The simple true is that on that Sunday the Seahawks were 2nd best to the Ravens in every facet. Describing the Seahawks O-Line as 2nd best is being kind. They were dominated.

The Seahawks were at least competitive for the 1st 28 minutes. If they had somehow scored before half-time and had gone in 14-6 it could have been interesting. instead they had a turnover and were down 17-3. The Ravens then killed the game in the 3rd quarter. Bad days happen. Hopefully the Seahawks will look at how they use the RB in the passing game because they're effectively playing with 10 men.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yep. But this Sunday has nothing to do with that game. Chalk up the L and move forward. It's sports, sometimes teams just get their a**es handed to them.

Most of them.

 

[RiverDog]

In this game it should have been 60-40 or even 70-30, like the Ravens punished us with running the ball and Lamar right down our throats at will.

I see an impatience with the run game. When we're down by a touchdown or 10 pts, etc I see too much trust in Geno throwing the ball on 2nd and long.

So yeah, there does need to be more creativity. Or give Charbonnet the starting nod up against good front sevens. Or more carries. He can get 3-4 tough yards when Walker can't cause he's stuffed and bouncing around for 1-2 yard losses.

The run game wasn't working and was actually making our offense more predictable as we'd run the ball on first down, get stuffed, then we'd be in 2nd/3rd and long. And once you get behind by several scores, you know as well as I do that the game plan goes out the window.

The reason the Ravens ran as much as they did was because (1) it was working and (2) they were ahead.

But we can argue about that until the cows come home. It wouldn't have mattered if we ran the ball 80% of the time or threw 80% of the time. We got our asses kicked by a far superior team. They were a level above us.

 

[sutz]

The run game wasn't working and was actually making our offense more predictable as we'd run the ball on first down, get stuffed, then we'd be in 2nd/3rd and long. And once you get behind by several scores, you know as well as I do that the game plan goes out the window.

The reason the Ravens ran as much as they did was because (1) it was working and (2) they were ahead.

But we can argue about that until the cows come home. It wouldn't have mattered if we ran the ball 80% of the time or threw 80% of the time. We got our asses kicked by a far superior team. They were a level above us.

If you're getting 2 yds/rush, you're gonna be punting a lot.

 

[bileever]

The O-line was terrible in pass protection, and even worse in run blocking on Sunday. Charles Cross has not been good since he returned. He probably needed some time to work back into game shape. He's currently ranked #54 by PFF, just a few spots ahead of Jake Curhan (#57), and behind Stone Forsythe (#41).

To give you an idea of how bad the O-line was, the top ten or so players on PFF grade at about 80.0 or better. The top 30 grade at about 70.0 or better. We didn't have a single lineman score above 69 in run blocking, and had a couple in the 40s against the Ravens.

Think about this: There are 64 starting tackles in the NFL, and our best tackle is grading out near the bottom of that group. Our starting guards are at #61 (Haynes) and #41 (Lewis), although Bradford is ranked at #32. We have to have better line play before this offense can improve.

 

[RiverDog]

If you're getting 2 yds/rush, you're gonna be punting a lot.

And the sad part is that we weren't even getting two yards a carry. 28 yards on 15 carries comes out to 1.87 YPC.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Ravens game aside, our defense has kept us in every game in the 1st half, even down a score or 10 pts.

So being down 20 points IMO is not something I'd worry about other than an outlier game against elite teams like the Ravens.

My point is with a QB like Geno, you don't really have a choice. He goes as the run game goes. If you can't figure out how to get the run game going? You're dead in the water cause Geno's not the kind of QB who's going to put the team on his shoulders down 17+.

He's just not.

Fair points Sarge. Good post.

 

[Appyhawk]

I'm guessing the Niners and Cowboys and Eagles are brushing up on their screen play schedule for when they meet up with us. Screens have been magic for nearly everyone that has used it against us. We have even concentrated on busting screens and it still blows us out of the water.

 

[CallMeADawg]

I am not going to go through a bunch of games from Mahomes, Allen and Burrow. I'm not going to go through a bunch of games from Brady, Brees and Manning. I don't have to. You and I are both old enough to have seen great games from defenses that made each and every great QB look as bad as Geno did against the defense that confused him. None of them were able to adjust in those games.

This play here just shows how bad they were:



Dave does a good job explaining it, and it was not an uncommon occurrence during the game. Our defense played like absolute garbage.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yup. But it's over with, on to Sunday.

Love Wyman, he does a great job and doesn't have to sugar coat like a lot of guys.

 

[sutz]

Even on the bad ones, Dave Wyman tells it like it is. We pretty much sucked in every facet of the game except for the punter. But when your punter is your best player it's usually not good news.