NFL coaches on Wilson, according to Cossell

[scutterhawk]

I'm not talking about all plays and sometimes the interior line did struggle, but there many times where is was obvious he had a large pocket in front of him and he ran right into the edge pressure. As per making easier plays outside of the pocket, the problem with that is when escaping laterally you are effectively cutting your reads and the play's design in half. I have no problem with him escaping out when he has to, but he became skittish at stretches through the year and bailed early, often resulting in holding onto the ball much longer than he should. If you listen to Pete's halftime talk with the sideline reporter in the NFCC his criticism was with Wilson not getting the ball out fast enough, not with the protection. What Wilson did in the Superbowl in terms of stepping INTO the pocket and being decisive was awesome and what the designes dictate.

You have to take a step backwards in your evaluations dude, as sometimes (if you have the wheels, and talent) you buy time to get your Receivers the time to get open, and Wilson did a LOT of that, and too, the O-line folded up like cheap campstools too often for Russell Wilson to believe they wouldn't do it again with the next play.
Russell Wilson has a Super Bowl Ring, playing the way Russell Wilson needed to play to get there eh?

 

[pocketprotector]

An average QB in this league, is a very good QB (14-18). Slightly would mean around 12. I have him at 8. I don't think this is much of an article unless you believe he's a top 5 QB (as some of you do who refuse to take off your homer glasses). Flacco won a superbowl with a lesser defense, and lesser running game- let's crown him top 5 too?

Wilson is an above average qb, but he's not elite. There are only 4 elite QBs (manning, brady, rodgers, brees). The next tier of about 7 guys are all very close.

This post is about as boneheaded as it gets. He is 5-6 and that's only in question because he doesn't throw it 30-40 times a game racking up empty meaningless yards.

At this stage, Wilson is a better QB than Brady. Brady's passer rating this year was lower than Phil River's the last two years, the two years he "came back" from to win comeback player of the year.

To me there is a 2 man tier at the top (Manning/Rodgers) and Wilson is part of an about 4 man tier below that.

 

[Msfann]

The only stat that should matter is a championship. Wilson wins.

 

[kearly]

Arians. I am confident he was one of the sources.

There's a new article here where Arians specifically mentions height when casting doubt on Johnny Manziel. Arians philosophy has been to have a pocket QB with a "screw it, go deep" mentality, and of course he coached Andrew Luck in 2012. His Cardinals defense made Wilson look amazing mid-season (fumbles aside), and made Wilson look turrible in week 16.

If Arians was one of those sources, it makes you wonder what he thinks of Kaepernick. Arians flat out said that Wilson was a better QB than Kaepernick last year, on the record.

 

[Blitzer88]

Wow............guys still can't stand to give Russell any type of credit for the success he has had.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

I like Cowherd's response. He countered by saying Wilson plays mistake-free against the toughest defenses in the league. Then, after Cosell proceeded with the "coaches will laugh at you comment", Cowherd paused for a second (as if he's thinking WTF?) and then moved on without even acknowledging Cosell's comments. I didn't listen to the rest of it so not sure if they came back to the topic.

It's a shame nobody laughs at all the terrible projections Cosell makes every single year.

Instead it's one great rush to see who can be the biggest sycophant towards him on Twitter.

Every article involving a Cosell quote has to begin with a qualification that he's the greatest human being ever to walk the planet (or something like that...).

I can't work out why anyone cares what Greg Cosell says. He's quite possibly (probably)the most self-aggrandizing and objectionable individual in a profession that is full of them. But with even more questionable judgment than most. I don't get it.

:th2thumbs:

 

[Seahawker86]

The guy breaks the record for most wins in his first two regular seasons AND the record for most wins in the past 2 years including playoffs. The guy just wins. If Andy Reid didn't pull a classic Andy Reid Luck would be 0-2 in the playoffs.

Can anyone post who is the league leaders in TOTAL wins the past two years? Regular season and then one including the post season?

 

[kearly]

Actually, Cosell is probably correct in rating Wilson "slightly above average". However, Wilson gets this rating simply because he is NOT asked or tasked with exceeding that level, AT THIS TIME. Wait it out about 4 more years, let Lynch retire, watch our teams dynamic change,, and THEN rate Wilson.

Cosell wasn't the one saying that. He's saying he heard that from GMs whom he respects. That's what he found interesting.

Cosell has downplayed Wilson pretty much from day one, while doing the opposite for Luck since day one. I don't think it's anything personal, Cosell is the ultimate "color within the lines" talent evaluator. His favorite QB last year was Ryan Nassib. The year before that, he called Ryan Lindley "the most intriguing QB in the draft." Basically, he loves QB prospects with prototypical measurements and skillsets, even if they are unspectacular or downright terrible, but is against the new breed of QB unless the have prototypical size like Luck. Even if those QBs are extremely good, he refuses to change his mind.

 

[kearly]

An average QB in this league, is a very good QB (14-18). Slightly would mean around 12. I have him at 8. I don't think this is much of an article unless you believe he's a top 5 QB (as some of you do who refuse to take off your homer glasses). Flacco won a superbowl with a lesser defense, and lesser running game- let's crown him top 5 too?

Wilson is an above average qb, but he's not elite. There are only 4 elite QBs (manning, brady, rodgers, brees). The next tier of about 7 guys are all very close.

Wilson is I think 3rd in the NFL in A/NYA among QBs who played in both 2012 and 2013. Whatever you think about him, his production per attempt is unquestionably elite territory.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

Cosell has downplayed Wilson pretty much from day one, while doing the opposite for Luck since day one. I don't think it's anything personal, Cosell is the ultimate "color within the lines" talent evaluator. His favorite QB last year was Ryan Nassib. The year before that, he called Ryan Lindley "the most intriguing QB in the draft." Basically, he loves crappy QBs with prototypical measurements and skillsets, but is against the new breed of QB unless the have prototypical size like Luck. Even if those QBs are extremely good, he refuses to change his mind.

So you're saying the guy is an idiot. But how can somebody play up Luck and down play RW (a close competitor) without it being personal?
Anyway we are on page 6 and the one person with the most accurate perspective hasn't contributed. I know he said Luck was better but that was at the beginning of RW's rookie season. Where are you ADB!!

 

[lobohawk]

Sando has a much better perspective than Cossell. Sure, I'm biased cause Sando's been so positive in his evaluations of Wilson. What I like is that Sando's attention to detail and view of situational football gave him great insight into Wilson's actual impact on the field. For example, he was pretty firm in his belief that without Wilson, the Hawks would have lost tow or three more in the first half of the season.

 

[Laloosh]

I googled Greg Cosell and got this (no lie):



I refuse to take him seriously with those sun glasses. What a travesty...

 

[Russ Willstrong]

I googled Greg Cosell and got this (no lie):



I refuse to take him seriously with those sun glasses. What a travesty...

IIRC he had a double chin but otherwise right on.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

Actually, Cosell is probably correct in rating Wilson "slightly above average". However, Wilson gets this rating simply because he is NOT asked or tasked with exceeding that level, AT THIS TIME. Wait it out about 4 more years, let Lynch retire, watch our teams dynamic change,, and THEN rate Wilson.

Cosell wasn't the one saying that. He's saying he heard that from GMs whom he respects. That's what he found interesting.

Cosell has downplayed Wilson pretty much from day one, while doing the opposite for Luck since day one. I don't think it's anything personal, Cosell is the ultimate "color within the lines" talent evaluator. His favorite QB last year was Ryan Nassib. The year before that, he called Ryan Lindley "the most intriguing QB in the draft." Basically, he loves QB prospects with prototypical measurements and skillsets, even if they are unspectacular or downright terrible, but is against the new breed of QB unless the have prototypical size like Luck. Even if those QBs are extremely good, he refuses to change his mind.

He also said Christian Ponder had a rocket arm.

Let's never forget that.

 

[Shane Falco]

The scouts, analysts, coaching staffs, GM's and whoever else get it wrong all the time. It's forgivable, happens to the best of them. But when a guy is already doing it at the highest level before their very eyes and they still can't see it.... well that's just pathetic.

 

[JMR]

I'm far from a Luck fan, but holy cow we at least need to try to be fair and objective.

Let's try it this way. The center of gravity for Indy's offense has been Andrew Luck since week 1 of 2012. He was handed the keys and essentially asked to make it all work. He has no running game. He has only "ok" WRs to throw to (especially with Wayne injured). It's more or less impossible for that offense to do well without Andrew Luck being the main reason.

It's not really that way on our team. This offense has been run-first the last 2 years. Its center of gravity has been the running game, and that's backed up frequently by just about anything coming out of PC's mouth when he's talking offense. RW has indeed played very well in the context of our offensive scheme, but it doesn't start and end with him like in Indy. He has help, and we can be effective on offense and win consistently without him putting up big #s. In fact, often times we have won simply on the strength of tough defense and solid running with minimal offensive mistakes. Nothing at all wrong with that, and it's not all that far from what Brady did early on as a starter, but we have to at least acknowledge the truth here.....and we can do that and still be huge Seahawks/Wilson fans.

I think you're trying to be a little more bias with your assessment BUT, Russell Wilson has way fewer interceptions, because he knows when to take chances, which I think Luck does too often, and therefore throws a lot more interceptions.
PLUS, Russell Wilson plays in a way tougher Division, with much tougher Defenses, so the fact that he has played through the gauntlet and came out the other side with more wins, and the Lombardi, screams of the disrespect, and erroneous evaluations by dimwits like Cosell.
Because of poor O-Line play early in the Season, Russell Wilson was sacked, hurried, and molested more than ANY Quarterback in the League, but IN SPITE of these, he still managed to tough them out, and come back to win, and I don't think Luck could have done anywhere near as well in those exact same circumstances.
There's just too many of these jokers that are still denying the talent that Russell Wilson is.

Not sure what bias you think I have, but ok. Just to be factually correct, Luck had a lower int % than Russell this year.

I agree with nearly all of the other stuff. Russell is fantastic and just surviving the first half of the season behind that shambles of a line is a major accomplishment and something very few QBs could have dealt with as well as he did.

 

[HawkWow]

We don't need RW to be better than Luck, or even thought to be better than Luck. Such designations don't win super bowls...they just cost money. I am perfectly happy / content in knowing we have a top 5 (IMO) QB that is capable of winning us SBs. What's not to love?

 

[hawk45]

Just watched Wilson highlights from this year on YouTube, boy seeing those plays and where they occurred in terms of magnitude in the games, Wilson being slightly above average is effing ridiculous. Yeah he doesn't launch 50 passes a game, but taking care of the ball and coming through in the clutch, Wilson's clutch genes are elite, yes elite. Without protection much of the year no less.

I really like Luck and don't care to get into who's better, but Wilson is the difference between us being the KC Chiefs and being SB champs.

A full season with Harvin and the talk about Wilson being near average will be ridiculed by all. Wilson with a scoche of time and weapons, forget about it.

 

[WilsonMVP]

I like Cowherd's response. He countered by saying Wilson plays mistake-free against the toughest defenses in the league. Then, after Cosell proceeded with the "coaches will laugh at you comment", Cowherd paused for a second (as if he's thinking WTF?) and then moved on without even acknowledging Cosell's comments. I didn't listen to the rest of it so not sure if they came back to the topic.

It's a shame nobody laughs at all the terrible projections Cosell makes every single year.

Instead it's one great rush to see who can be the biggest sycophant towards him on Twitter.

Every article involving a Cosell quote has to begin with a qualification that he's the greatest human being ever to walk the planet (or something like that...).

I can't work out why anyone cares what Greg Cosell says. He's quite possibly (probably)the most self-aggrandizing and objectionable individual in a profession that is full of them. But with even more questionable judgment than most. I don't get it.

:th2thumbs:

Well, and Alex Smith did the one thing...the ONE THING he couldnt do. He fumbled the ball at the INDY 46 about 2 1/2 minutes after INDY scored to make it 38-17. Indy gets the ball back and scores again in 1 and 1/2 minutes making it a 14 point game. Within a span of 5 or so minutes INDY scored 14.

 

[theENGLISHseahawk]

"Listen to me, this is fascinating."

Before his point on Wilson.

He also says "I" and "me" a lot in this piece.

And at one point says, "Oh by the way, Marvin Lewis is saying hello to me Colin."

:roll: