Max Unger and 1st for Jimmy Graham and 4th round pick

[Popeyejones]

This may be an indication why this trade went down as it did:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DavisHsuSeattle/status/575554357678178305[/tweet]

Yet we still have to pay the draftee as a 1st rounder, much higher per year salary and bigger signing bonus...........thus why Pete and John aren't ever excited about keeping that pick.

In the past that may have mattered, but not really anymore, particularly if you're talking about something like the 31st pick.

You're basically talking about paying someone 1.75 per year over four years. If anything it's an argument for keeping the pick rather than trading it for someone on a second contract at 9 million dollars per year.

It's worth saying that I think it's a great trade for the Seahawks, but purely from a dollar and cents perspective trading that pick for a second contract guy is a particularly poor decision with the new CBA.

Just as a point of comparison, the Seahawks will be paying Jimmy Graham twice as much per year than the #1 pick in the draft this year will get.

 

[Atradees]

Hard not to be excited about one of the NFLs best Tight Ends. Will Jimmy Graham be content not being a superstar anymore? Cause he aint gonna get the ball unless we are changing the offense. He might get three balls a game. He is used to 8 to ten targets a game minimum. How is that gonna work?

 

[HawkFan72]

Just a thought, I wonder if they would trade Irvin, and pick up Sheard........ :242735:

When I saw Irvin's tweet after the trade, I couldn't help but think "dude, careful what you say... you could be next".

What did he say?

He said something like "Smh, we do not get along LOL"

 

[mikeak]

Hard not to be excited about one of the NFLs best Tight Ends. Will Jimmy Graham be content not being a superstar anymore? Cause he aint gonna get the ball unless we are changing the offense. He might get three balls a game. He is used to 8 to ten targets a game minimum. How is that gonna work?

How is that going to work?

1) I don't agree that it will be that few targets. I think RW will use him as outlet instead of throwing the ball away and RW will hit over 70% this year due to this trade

2) If I am wrong on 1 then I still expect 2 out of those 3 catches will be TDs - that keeps Graham as a superstar

 

[dontbelikethat]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/Alex_Flanagan/status/575700777169129473[/tweet]

Issue was with determining whether he was a TE or a WR. Guess he felt betrayed by the franchise because they fought hard for him to get the TE #'s.

 

[HawkFan72]

Anyone worried that Unger won't pass the Saints' physical?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/575701987087499265[/tweet]

If they find that his body might not hold up every year, the whole thing could be off.

I worry about this with every trade, so nothing new.

 

[WendellWent]

Anyone worried that Unger won't pass the Saints' physical?

[tweet]https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/575701987087499265[/tweet]

If they find that his body might not hold up every year, the whole thing could be off.

I worry about this with every trade, so nothing new.

The narrative sounds like it was NO pushing for Unger. On top of that they must clear cap space. Then add in the rumored "awkwardness" between Graham and the Saints. As long as Unger can walk and talk they will pass him.

 

[dontbelikethat]

At this point, it would be definitely awkward more so for them imo if this doesn't go through. Unger knows Hawks and Hawks fans got love for him.

Brees just tweeted this out if it means anything...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/drewbrees/status/575707861935767552[/tweet]

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

This may be an indication why this trade went down as it did:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DavisHsuSeattle/status/575554357678178305[/tweet]

Yet we still have to pay the draftee as a 1st rounder, much higher per year salary and bigger signing bonus...........thus why Pete and John aren't ever excited about keeping that pick.

Yep. They interestingly didn't have to pay too much to get Unger. My real issue with this trade, and this speaks to the "relax boys and girls, it's really only trading a first for a third pick" crowd: while the first round pick may be expensive to pay, and there may not have been a player our front office felt was worth it this year, look at what they've done before. Last year is a classic example of what we could have done with it. We turned our low first rounder into what, three guys? And still got the guy we were targeting. The net value may be the equivalent of dropping from first to third, but the true value is still a fourth rounder, and minus the value of a first rounder.

I'd have felt much more comfortable with this trade if it had involved lower round picks for lower round picks. Pick #31 is worth 600 points. Pick #109 is worth 76 points. Sure, it's only a drop of 78 spots, but it's almost eight times less value in return. Value for picks is exponential. Pete and John do a fantastic job of wheeling and dealing in the draft to gain value, but lose it time and time again in trades. That's my real gripe with this trade, not that I think Jimmy's somehow going to turn into a locker room disaster.

Guys, I think we're all missing a major component of this. Has anyone asked Jon Ryan how he feels now that he's not the most talented ginger on the team any more?

No need; Jon Ryan is still the most talented ginger on the team. Have you seen Jimmy punt? Have you seen Jimmy throw a touchdown pass? I rest my case.

 

[McGruff]

At this point, it would be definitely awkward more so for them imo if this doesn't go through. Unger knows Hawks and Hawks fans got love for him.

Brees just tweeted this out if it means anything...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/drewbrees/status/575707861935767552[/tweet]

This was the last picture Brees had taken with Graham before the trade.

 

[McGruff]

This may be an indication why this trade went down as it did:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DavisHsuSeattle/status/575554357678178305[/tweet]

Yet we still have to pay the draftee as a 1st rounder, much higher per year salary and bigger signing bonus...........thus why Pete and John aren't ever excited about keeping that pick.

Yep. They interestingly didn't have to pay too much to get Unger. My real issue with this trade, and this speaks to the "relax boys and girls, it's really only trading a first for a third pick" crowd: while the first round pick may be expensive to pay, and there may not have been a player our front office felt was worth it this year, look at what they've done before. Last year is a classic example of what we could have done with it. We turned our low first rounder into what, three guys? And still got the guy we were targeting. The net value may be the equivalent of dropping from first to third, but the true value is still a fourth rounder, and minus the value of a first rounder.

I'd have felt much more comfortable with this trade if it had involved lower round picks for lower round picks. Pick #31 is worth 600 points. Pick #109 is worth 76 points. Sure, it's only a drop of 78 spots, but it's almost eight times less value in return. Value for picks is exponential. Pete and John do a fantastic job of wheeling and dealing in the draft to gain value, but lose it time and time again in trades. That's my real gripe with this trade, not that I think Jimmy's somehow going to turn into a locker room disaster.

Guys, I think we're all missing a major component of this. Has anyone asked Jon Ryan how he feels now that he's not the most talented ginger on the team any more?

No need; Jon Ryan is still the most talented ginger on the team. Have you seen Jimmy punt? Have you seen Jimmy throw a touchdown pass? I rest my case.

Hate to tell you this, but the Trade Value Chart is basically useless in a post CBA market, especially for the Seahawks, who have never really fit with the TVC's posted online.

 

[volsunghawk]

This may be an indication why this trade went down as it did:

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DavisHsuSeattle/status/575554357678178305[/tweet]

Yet we still have to pay the draftee as a 1st rounder, much higher per year salary and bigger signing bonus...........thus why Pete and John aren't ever excited about keeping that pick.

Yep. They interestingly didn't have to pay too much to get Unger. My real issue with this trade, and this speaks to the "relax boys and girls, it's really only trading a first for a third pick" crowd: while the first round pick may be expensive to pay, and there may not have been a player our front office felt was worth it this year, look at what they've done before. Last year is a classic example of what we could have done with it. We turned our low first rounder into what, three guys? And still got the guy we were targeting. The net value may be the equivalent of dropping from first to third, but the true value is still a fourth rounder, and minus the value of a first rounder.

I'd have felt much more comfortable with this trade if it had involved lower round picks for lower round picks. Pick #31 is worth 600 points. Pick #109 is worth 76 points. Sure, it's only a drop of 78 spots, but it's almost eight times less value in return. Value for picks is exponential. Pete and John do a fantastic job of wheeling and dealing in the draft to gain value, but lose it time and time again in trades. That's my real gripe with this trade, not that I think Jimmy's somehow going to turn into a locker room disaster.

And yet the draft is still a bit of a crap shoot. There's no guarantee that those 3 picks we could have turned #31 into would have an impact on the 2015 team. We had a glaring need for someone who could come in and contribute right away as an offensive weapon. Graham is more of a sure thing in that regard than any draft pick.

It seems sometimes that people get so caught up in the perceived value of draft picks and so in love with the potential that they represent that they ignore the pragmatic and tangible stuff.

 

[DJrmb]

Everyone knew that the second half of the 1st round was weak this year. No way you would get Any Team to give you the full Hypothetical 600 point value for that pick. The point system is an ok starting point for evaluating draft pick trades but it is not perfect because the values go up and down based on the perceived amount of talent.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

Everyone knew that the second half of the 1st round was weak this year. No way you would get Any Team to give you the full Hypothetical 600 point value for that pick. The point system is an ok starting point for evaluating draft pick trades but it is not perfect because the values go up and down based on the perceived amount of talent.

So we not only had to take partial value from New Orleans for that 600 points, but we had to throw Max Unger in to sweeten the deal as well?

 

[DavidSeven]

I'm board with Sailor here. Not to say I hate the trade. I think there's a good chance this works out great for Seattle. I just wonder about the compensation.

kearly and others raise a good point about the cost effectiveness of a late 1st. I agree that it's often a good idea to trade out of that spot, unless you have one specific player you want. But I don't think that means you offer it up in this particular trade. Nothing would stop Seattle from offering NO a later pick and then trading out of #31 on draft day. Last year, we turned pick #32 into Paul Richardson, Cassius Marsh, and Keiro Small. Pretty good haul IMO; three guys who will be in the NFL next year on super cheap deals.

And again, you look around the league and Seattle is basically the only team giving up 1st or even 2nd round picks for guys on their second NFL contract. Don't get me wrong -- I have full faith in PC/JS. In whole, they are the best in the business. But we have been burned on trades that include draft packages on more than one occasion.

 

[volsunghawk]

Everyone knew that the second half of the 1st round was weak this year. No way you would get Any Team to give you the full Hypothetical 600 point value for that pick. The point system is an ok starting point for evaluating draft pick trades but it is not perfect because the values go up and down based on the perceived amount of talent.

So we not only had to take partial value from New Orleans for that 600 points, but we had to throw Max Unger in to sweeten the deal as well?

Unger was the origin of the trade. Not Graham. The Saints wanted Unger and initially tried to offer up one of their WRs (no word on whether draft picks were involved in those discussions). Schneider decided to see if Graham was available, and Loomis indicated he was.

 

[XxXdragonXxX]

As a former Graham hater. I love this trade.

Unger is overrated and has only played 2 full seasons in his career. Played 6 games last year and we made the superbowl. Biggest reason we didn't win it? Lack of a big threat in the passing game.

Unger for a 4th is a decent trade. Graham for the 31st pick is a steal for us.

 

[rideaducati]

Jimmy Graham doesn't care about his shutout article (He had two shutout last year)

"For me, it's all about the W's. I don't care if it's zero catches, 10 catches or 20, as long as we win," insisted Graham"

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000437352/article/jimmy-graham-doesnt-care-about-his-shutout

So the same guy that said this is the guy that got all hiney hurt when the NFL banned dunking on goalposts after touchdowns?

Yeah, sounds like it is all about the W's.

Jimmy Graham is still soft as a baby's bottom, and I really hope Kam teaches him a thing or two about having thick skin.

Theres nothing worse than a whiney baby.

I think you should do a little research into Jimmy and where he comes from before claiming that the guy doesn't have thick skin and calling him a whiney baby.

 

[Basis4day]

Graham's measurables at the combine are very similar to BMW's at his pro day. Graham is also larger and has a proven record in the NFL.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

Everyone knew that the second half of the 1st round was weak this year. No way you would get Any Team to give you the full Hypothetical 600 point value for that pick. The point system is an ok starting point for evaluating draft pick trades but it is not perfect because the values go up and down based on the perceived amount of talent.

So we not only had to take partial value from New Orleans for that 600 points, but we had to throw Max Unger in to sweeten the deal as well?

Unger was the origin of the trade. Not Graham. The Saints wanted Unger and initially tried to offer up one of their WRs (no word on whether draft picks were involved in those discussions). Schneider decided to see if Graham was available, and Loomis indicated he was.

Yeah, I understand that. My post was a bit tongue-in-cheek there. Just saying I really think a lot of folks are way overvaluing what the Seahawks got in this trade for what they gave up.

I have high hopes for him. I just think we got the shorter end of this deal.