Love The Sonics. Hate The NBA.

[AROS]

Of course I would love to see the Sonics come home. I have so many great memories in the mid 90's going to the games and watching Payton, Kemp, Detlef, Perkins, etc, etc...Do their thing. The Key was electric back then! So many great stars. From what I've heard (I wouldn't know, I haven't watched a freaking second of the NBA after the Sonics were allowed to leave town), the game today is absolute garbage.

I would still watch Sonics games as a fan, but will refrain from watching any non-Sonics games. Outside of the Sonics potential return, the NBA continues to be dead to me.

 

[JPatera76]

ditto, from what little ive seen since the sonics... its a traveling shooting mess of "we're behind lets draw fouls now" if its not some kind of travel and shot. idk its shit.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

I never understood the NBA hate, except for the bitter fans who don't like the sport because the NBA was stolen.

While the NBA has flaws, it's overall a great product. It's as exciting as ever as scoring is way up. We are in a golden era, most all time great lists include plenty of players playing today. LeBron is arguably the greatest, Steph is probably top 10. Durant is somewhere in the top 15 along with Jokic. And then there are plenty of other players who are in the NBA's top 25. This era will definitely go down as one of the best.

As for those that complain about....All they do is shoot 3's and nobody plays defense. You can make the same argument for football. All they do is throw the ball and nobody can play defense. Leagues change, that's the evolution of these games. I'd much rather watch Steph Curry shooting bombs from three and scores be in the 120's than watch teams pass the ball around for 20 seconds and settle for a mid range jump shot and the scores be in the 90's.

IMO MLB has been much more unwatchable than NBA for the decade. I go to a baseball game and I basically watch 20+ guys strikeout and I'll be lucky to see more than 8 runs scored. With the NBA, you have a chance to see close to 300 points scored in a game. I think the best part of the NBA is the star power. Can't wait for the Sonics to come back so I can pick certain games to see certain players. Go to a Spurs game and see Wemby. Go to a Warriors game to see Steph. Go to a TWolves game to see Anthony Edwards. Baseball you can't really do that. If you went to see Judge yesterday you go to see him hit a single. If you went to see Wemby yesterday you saw him put up 41 points and 16 rebounds.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I love the star power and the consistency of the NBA. It's also the best athletes in the world that play in the NBA.

 

[JPatera76]

I never understood the NBA hate, except for the bitter fans who don't like the sport because the NBA was stolen.

While the NBA has flaws, it's overall a great product. It's as exciting as ever as scoring is way up. We are in a golden era, most all time great lists include plenty of players playing today. LeBron is arguably the greatest, Steph is probably top 10. Durant is somewhere in the top 15 along with Jokic. And then there are plenty of other players who are in the NBA's top 25. This era will definitely go down as one of the best.

As for those that complain about....All they do is shoot 3's and nobody plays defense. You can make the same argument for football. All they do is throw the ball and nobody can play defense. Leagues change, that's the evolution of these games. I'd much rather watch Steph Curry shooting bombs from three and scores be in the 120's than watch teams pass the ball around for 20 seconds and settle for a mid range jump shot and the scores be in the 90's.

IMO MLB has been much more unwatchable than NBA for the decade. I go to a baseball game and I basically watch 20+ guys strikeout and I'll be lucky to see more than 8 runs scored. With the NBA, you have a chance to see close to 300 points scored in a game. I think the best part of the NBA is the star power. Can't wait for the Sonics to come back so I can pick certain games to see certain players. Go to a Spurs game and see Wemby. Go to a Warriors game to see Steph. Go to a TWolves game to see Anthony Edwards. Baseball you can't really do that. If you went to see Judge yesterday you go to see him hit a single. If you went to see Wemby yesterday you saw him put up 41 points and 16 rebounds.

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I love the star power and the consistency of the NBA. It's also the best athletes in the world that play in the NBA.

Consistency? so the same power house all star teams each year?
Best eithletes in the world? MLB NFL SOCCER NHL etc etc etc every other sport would like a word

Your post comes off as someone who's just offended so your going to extra lengths to defend/white knight something while discreetly calling those who disagree essentially bitter because they generally don't like the product and its flaws are glaring. Overall you are in the minority the game is diluted and there is lack of passion or care. Inflated scores & stats, rules favor offense, flopping, chucking up 3’s, travel is barely even called anymore. 80’s, 90’s, early 2000’s were the best NBA era’s. Now? The game itself revolves around foul baiting if 3's aren't tossed up.

 

[jeremiah]

Consistency? so the same power house all star teams each year?
Best eithletes in the world? MLB NFL SOCCER NHL etc etc etc every other sport would like a word

Your post comes off as someone who's just offended so your going to extra lengths to defend/white knight something while discreetly calling those who disagree essentially bitter because they generally don't like the product and its flaws are glaring. Overall you are in the minority the game is diluted and there is lack of passion or care. Inflated scores & stats, rules favor offense, flopping, chucking up 3’s, travel is barely even called anymore. 80’s, 90’s, early 2000’s were the best NBA era’s. Now? The game itself revolves around foul baiting if 3's aren't tossed up.

College and even HS basketball is closer to the true nature of the game. There are less rules, which means less skill. You get 1 1/2 steps in the rule books. You cannot palm the ball or place your hand on the ball past 45 degrees. The 3 point line is part of the problem too. May as well get two goals for a long shot in hockey or soccer too.

My Dad was a coach, he was friends with the HS Coach, and College coaches. I watch the games and find it impossible to know when rules are broken, because it depends on how big a star is. LeBron and one tier gets 3-4 steps, many others get 2-3 steps. fouls are initiated by the offense, but laid on the defender. The game is closer to the Globetrotters than it is to the Jazz/Suns/Celtics/Laker glory days.

People get excited for a return of the Sonics, when they will require a new SINGLE USE ARENA promise. It just is not happening.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

Consistency? so the same power house all star teams each year?
Best eithletes in the world? MLB NFL SOCCER NHL etc etc etc every other sport would like a word

Your post comes off as someone who's just offended so your going to extra lengths to defend/white knight something while discreetly calling those who disagree essentially bitter because they generally don't like the product and its flaws are glaring. Overall you are in the minority the game is diluted and there is lack of passion or care. Inflated scores & stats, rules favor offense, flopping, chucking up 3’s, travel is barely even called anymore. 80’s, 90’s, early 2000’s were the best NBA era’s. Now? The game itself revolves around foul baiting if 3's aren't tossed up.

The best athletes in the world easily goes to the NBA. That's not even really debatable. Most NFL players would agree with this.

As for your consistency argument. Yes the span of the 2000's and 2010's was bad. But the NBA has had better parity than any sport the last 10 or so years. Since the Warriors dynasty ended in 2018, we have had a new champion each season. No team has made it back to the finals in consecutive years since the 2018 Warriors.

As for the actual game itself, it's the evolution of sports. There are definitely issues with the game....tanking, foul baiting, bad defense, etc. But you can say that for any sport. IMO NFL is the most balanced, but I'll take NBA over MLB any day. MLB has three true outcomes and they are all boring, strikeout, home run or walk.

I guess we can agree to disagree then.

 

[Chapow]

 

[DJrmb]

The best athletes in the world easily goes to the NBA. That's not even really debatable. Most NFL players would agree with this.

As for your consistency argument. Yes the span of the 2000's and 2010's was bad. But the NBA has had better parity than any sport the last 10 or so years. Since the Warriors dynasty ended in 2018, we have had a new champion each season. No team has made it back to the finals in consecutive years since the 2018 Warriors.

As for the actual game itself, it's the evolution of sports. There are definitely issues with the game....tanking, foul baiting, bad defense, etc. But you can say that for any sport. IMO NFL is the most balanced, but I'll take NBA over MLB any day. MLB has three true outcomes and they are all boring, strikeout, home run or walk.

I guess we can agree to disagree then.

Really appreciate you going out on a bit of a limb to defend the game on here. The game is definitely different than the 90s but as you stated so is the NFL. So is just about every single sport as athletes and technology change and stretch what is even possible in sports now days. There are things I miss about how the game used to be, but there are also things that are super impressive and fun to watch. You've got 7 footers that can move around like guards now and make insanely athletic plays. The little guys had to evolve to become elite sharp shooters who can hit from insane distances and angles with elite consistency and crazy quick releases. It's just the evolution of the game with freak athletes that can do things no one dreamed of 30+ years ago. Problems with rules and officiating? Yup, just like every other sport. The way I see it is that traveling is just the NBA's pass interference. Both get screwed up on the regular and both are subject to being called differently based on the reputation or stardom of the players involved. It's annoying as hell and I want it to be fixed, but I'm not crying about the game being completely unwatchable and garbage because of it. I still enjoy watching football and I'm sure once I have a team to root for again I will get back into basketball as well even with the changes and annoyances in the sport today.

 

[RiverDog]

Of course I would love to see the Sonics come home. I have so many great memories in the mid 90's going to the games and watching Payton, Kemp, Detlef, Perkins, etc, etc...Do their thing. The Key was electric back then! So many great stars. From what I've heard (I wouldn't know, I haven't watched a freaking second of the NBA after the Sonics were allowed to leave town), the game today is absolute garbage.

I would still watch Sonics games as a fan, but will refrain from watching any non-Sonics games. Outside of the Sonics potential return, the NBA continues to be dead to me.

I'm with ya on this one. Part of it, at least for me, is generational. The way the NBA promote their game, with hip-hop and rap music at every break in the action, is a complete turn off for me. And before anyone wants to suggest that my dislike for that genre has something to do with the fact that I'm an old white guy, I'll respond by saying that I loved Mo-town and the 70's black disco artists.

The re-incarnation of the Sonics, if it happens, is going to have to win me over. Game on!

 

[Hawk-Lock]

Really appreciate you going out on a bit of a limb to defend the game on here. The game is definitely different than the 90s but as you stated so is the NFL. So is just about every single sport as athletes and technology change and stretch what is even possible in sports now days. There are things I miss about how the game used to be, but there are also things that are super impressive and fun to watch. You've got 7 footers that can move around like guards now and make insanely athletic plays. The little guys had to evolve to become elite sharp shooters who can hit from insane distances and angles with elite consistency and crazy quick releases. It's just the evolution of the game with freak athletes that can do things no one dreamed of 30+ years ago. Problems with rules and officiating? Yup, just like every other sport. The way I see it is that traveling is just the NBA's pass interference. Both get screwed up on the regular and both are subject to being called differently based on the reputation or stardom of the players involved. It's annoying as hell and I want it to be fixed, but I'm not crying about the game being completely unwatchable and garbage because of it. I still enjoy watching football and I'm sure once I have a team to root for again I will get back into basketball as well even with the changes and annoyances in the sport today.

The NBA isn’t perfect, but it gets bad mouthed a lot in Seattle because what happened to the Sonics. And I totally understand it, Seattle fans have every right to boycott the NBA. If what happened to the Sonics happened to the Mariners or Seahawks, people Seattle would have the same feelings toward those respective leagues.

Baseball has done an amazing job the last two years of improving the game. I think we will see a similar swing in the NBA in the next few years. The tanking should be addressed in the next year, they’ve already proposed three plans to deter it. Foul baiting will hopefully be addressed soon. SGA just played a game where he shot 23 FT’s, nobody wants to see that. I don’t know how you fix it, but it will get done. We want to see guys trying to score, not guys trying to draw fouls.

I also believe that most sport fans enjoy nostalgia. We all chat about how we miss 90’s basketball. I do too. But do we really miss games where the score was in the 80’s with awful shooting? No. There are aspects of the game we miss, but there have also major improvements. But I’m not buying this chatter that the NBA is a trash product. I just think that’s short sighted. No different than people that are like, “all music sucks nowadays, they don’t make music it like they used to.”

I firmly believe NBA and NFL are at their peaks in terms of both the players and the game.

 

[Blazenhawks]

---

I get where you’re coming from, especially with the Sonics situation, but I strongly disagree that the NBA product today is anywhere near its peak. I actually think a lot of the criticism is deserved.

First off, the league is soft. That’s not nostalgia talking—that’s just watching the games. Defensive physicality has been legislated out of existence, and players openly hunt fouls instead of baskets. When a guy like SGA shoots 20+ free throws in a regular-season game, that’s not elite basketball, it’s exploitation of the rulebook. Nobody tunes in to watch ref-ball.

And yes, I know “the rules are different,” but that’s exactly the problem. The NBA chose to create an environment where offense is protected at all costs, even when it hurts the viewing experience. Compare possessions from the late 90s or early 2000s and you’ll see way more resistance at the point of attack. Today, breathing on a scorer can get you a whistle.

The league also absolutely lives and dies by the three now. Spacing is important, analytics matter—but when half the teams are jacking up 40+ threes a night with identical offensive concepts, games start to blur together. Variety is gone. Big men are encouraged to play like guards, post play is nearly extinct, and midrange skill is treated like an inefficiency instead of an art form. That may be “optimal,” but optimal doesn’t always mean entertaining.
The load management thing is another red flag. Players agreed to the 65-game threshold for awards, then immediately complained about it. That’s wild to me. Fans pay full price expecting stars to play. In earlier eras, guys took pride in playing 80+ games unless they were seriously hurt. Now it’s treated like an unreasonable ask. That is softness, whether people want to admit it or not.

And the “they couldn’t survive the 90s” argument isn’t just trash talk. Hand‑checking, real contact in the paint, harder screens—most modern stars have never been forced to deal with that night after night. That doesn’t mean today’s players aren’t skilled—they absolutely are—but durability, toughness, and accountability mattered more back then.
I’m not even a Sonics fan—I’m a Blazers fan—and I still feel like something’s been lost. I’m not saying we should go back to 82–78 final scores or illegal defense rules. But the pendulum has swung way too far toward offense, whining, and whistles.

The NBA isn’t “trash,” but calling it the best version of itself feels like settling. A great league should be able to evolve without losing its edge, its toughness, and its competitive soul. Right now, it’s struggling to do that.

 

[hawkfan68]

Bam Adebayo scoring 83 points in a game is all I need to know about how horrible the NBA is currently. He's just the most recent example. This depreciation of the NBA product has been going on for several decades now.

 

[Chapow]

Bam Adebayo scoring 83 points in a game is all I need to know about how horrible the NBA is currently. He's just the most recent example. This depreciation of the NBA product has been going on for several decades now.

He had 43 FT attempts in that game. Not his whole team, just him.

(only reason I know that is because I saw it on ESPN)

 

[Hawk-Lock]

---

I get where you’re coming from, especially with the Sonics situation, but I strongly disagree that the NBA product today is anywhere near its peak. I actually think a lot of the criticism is deserved.

First off, the league is soft. That’s not nostalgia talking—that’s just watching the games. Defensive physicality has been legislated out of existence, and players openly hunt fouls instead of baskets. When a guy like SGA shoots 20+ free throws in a regular-season game, that’s not elite basketball, it’s exploitation of the rulebook. Nobody tunes in to watch ref-ball.

And yes, I know “the rules are different,” but that’s exactly the problem. The NBA chose to create an environment where offense is protected at all costs, even when it hurts the viewing experience. Compare possessions from the late 90s or early 2000s and you’ll see way more resistance at the point of attack. Today, breathing on a scorer can get you a whistle.

The league also absolutely lives and dies by the three now. Spacing is important, analytics matter—but when half the teams are jacking up 40+ threes a night with identical offensive concepts, games start to blur together. Variety is gone. Big men are encouraged to play like guards, post play is nearly extinct, and midrange skill is treated like an inefficiency instead of an art form. That may be “optimal,” but optimal doesn’t always mean entertaining.
The load management thing is another red flag. Players agreed to the 65-game threshold for awards, then immediately complained about it. That’s wild to me. Fans pay full price expecting stars to play. In earlier eras, guys took pride in playing 80+ games unless they were seriously hurt. Now it’s treated like an unreasonable ask. That is softness, whether people want to admit it or not.

And the “they couldn’t survive the 90s” argument isn’t just trash talk. Hand‑checking, real contact in the paint, harder screens—most modern stars have never been forced to deal with that night after night. That doesn’t mean today’s players aren’t skilled—they absolutely are—but durability, toughness, and accountability mattered more back then.
I’m not even a Sonics fan—I’m a Blazers fan—and I still feel like something’s been lost. I’m not saying we should go back to 82–78 final scores or illegal defense rules. But the pendulum has swung way too far toward offense, whining, and whistles.

The NBA isn’t “trash,” but calling it the best version of itself feels like settling. A great league should be able to evolve without losing its edge, its toughness, and its competitive soul. Right now, it’s struggling to do that.

I agree with you that we aren’t in the golden era for nba, not sure why I said that. I do think we have the most talent we’ve ever seen, but yes some rules should be changed.

Not being able to hand check definitely changed the game.

I appreciate your response because at least you gave some substance. And I cal tell you watch or at least follow the sport. It’s just hard for me to take anyone opinion seriously who doesn’t watch it. In general, opinions are best when people actually observe what they are giving an opinion on.

I’m hopeful the NBA will address the tanking and foul baiting. Doubt they take away freedom of movement. No different than the NFL will never allow DB’s to be more physical with WR’s or rushers to hit the QB.

 

[Azvacar]

Everyone complains the NBA has turned to rubbish.. but guess why that is... the college players coming in change the game period.

"I love March Madness and hate the NBA" says my father in law... its the same damn thing now... what in the world is anyone talking about.

I see a down fall of both the NBA and NFL with all this college NIL transfer, I want awards and money before I sign mentality

 

[Azvacar]

Bam Adebayo scoring 83 points in a game is all I need to know about how horrible the NBA is currently. He's just the most recent example. This depreciation of the NBA product has been going on for several decades now.

What in the world does that have to do with anything? Took 20 years to break Kobes, and Wilts still hasn't been Broken...in almost 70 years...

 

[hawkfan68]

What in the world does that have to do with anything? Took 20 years to break Kobes, and Wilts still hasn't been Broken...in almost 70 years...

When a center is taking 22 threes and 43 shots total in one game, it just makes you wonder what’s going on. If he’s 7-for-22 from deep, why keep forcing those shots? Wilt dropped 100 without chucking threes just for the sake of it.

For me, it’s not about records — records are supposed to be broken. It’s how some players are going after them. It doesn’t feel like it’s happening within the flow of the game or a real team concept. It comes off as stat-chasing and playing selfishly.

That’s the part that’s soured me on the NBA.

 

[Seahawker]

 

[IndyHawk]

When a center is taking 22 threes and 43 shots total in one game, it just makes you wonder what’s going on. If he’s 7-for-22 from deep, why keep forcing those shots? Wilt dropped 100 without chucking threes just for the sake of it.

For me, it’s not about records — records are supposed to be broken. It’s how some players are going after them. It doesn’t feel like it’s happening within the flow of the game or a real team concept. It comes off as stat-chasing and playing selfishly.

That’s the part that’s soured me on the NBA.

I'm not kidding, one day I glanced at an NBA game just for a second, a
player was wide open under the bucket for the easiest 2 points and what
does he do?
He ran all the way to the three-point line just to shoot a three that missed.
The game is so watered down in many ways, it's hard to believe this was a
game that Wilt or Jordan played in.
That record Wilt holds and still holds many others that haven't been broken,
the NBA tries to pretend Wilt never existed lol.
It's all about the present and mighty dollar.

 

[Seahawker]

I swear if Caitlin Clark hadn't of showed up, basketball would have already died.
The Payton/Kemp era sure was fleeting.