Lock contadicts js on expectations

[hieroglyphics]

Pete and John were a team, sure, but Pete's decisions ruled on matters that were contested. It seems JS has been in charge of the last two drafts as well. Seeing John in action solo, sans Pete, I am really liking what I'm seeing. He's fixing Pete's overpays and ditching deadwood. It's become clearer (to me) that many of Pete's GM decisions were "shiny object syndrome" and didn't really factor in cap and long-term impact. One-season rentals paid in draft capital were to prop up Pete, and were about Pete, by Pete.

JS fixed the Dissly overpay, and we saw the the market valued Dissly at $4M/yr, not $8M/yr. JS fixed the safety position overpay issues. JS let the market overvalue Damien Lewis rather than overpay him. Maybe Lewis gets the last word; we'll see. I'll roll the dice with JS. Possibly points to the Husky OL as a primary draft target. I really like JS bringing in Sam Howell; real upside from the bargain bin. Ron Rivera isn't exactly known as a QB whisperer. Howell was great when he got good protection, but not so great when under constant pressure. I liked and rooted for Drew Lock, but IMO Howell has more long-term upside.

Under Pete, the Hawks wound up with an overpaid, underperforming roster, due to Pete's pursuit of shiny objects and emotional attachment to underperforming assistants and underperforming players, one poor decision at a time. I see JS and MM and assistants as getting busy on fixing this, and collaborating well to build a roster around MM's philosophy. JS is THE MAN and I am on board.

Shiny object syndrome started with the Percy Harvin trade. Pete killed it in the draft and personnel decisions (like the Lynch trade) when he had his finger on the pulse of college football, either by playing against the players we ended up drafting or bringing in as UDFA, heard from former coaches whose opinions he trusted, or possibly even tried recruiting them. It's actually really clear that this advantage was lost by 2013 (easily their worst draft class ever) the same year they went all in for Harvin. That was classic Pete move, and the draft class sucked in 2014 too. Then I think for years they ended up being average to adequate because neither of them were fully in charge. I'm sure Pete made some of the picks that ended up working out but have to assume the really stupid moves (like drafting Malik McDowell or Rashaad Penny) was ultimately a Pete decision, and JS justified it because he was able to trade down to get him (giving him picks he could use in case Pete's high risk high reward move failed). Sometimes a risky approach is good, but the smarter moves would have been best player available when you look at all the talent that we could have accumulated at our original picks.

 

[BASF]

Shiny object syndrome started with the Percy Harvin trade. Pete killed it in the draft and personnel decisions (like the Lynch trade) when he had his finger on the pulse of college football, either by playing against the players we ended up drafting or bringing in as UDFA, heard from former coaches whose opinions he trusted, or possibly even tried recruiting them. It's actually really clear that this advantage was lost by 2013 (easily their worst draft class ever) the same year they went all in for Harvin. That was classic Pete move, and the draft class sucked in 2014 too. Then I think for years they ended up being average to adequate because neither of them were fully in charge. I'm sure Pete made some of the picks that ended up working out but have to assume the really stupid moves (like drafting Malik McDowell or Rashaad Penny) was ultimately a Pete decision, and JS justified it because he was able to trade down to get him (giving him picks he could use in case Pete's high risk high reward move failed). Sometimes a risky approach is good, but the smarter moves would have been best player available when you look at all the talent that we could have accumulated at our original picks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scot_McCloughan The real reason our drafts dropped off.

 

[chris98251]

Shiny object syndrome started with the Percy Harvin trade. Pete killed it in the draft and personnel decisions (like the Lynch trade) when he had his finger on the pulse of college football, either by playing against the players we ended up drafting or bringing in as UDFA, heard from former coaches whose opinions he trusted, or possibly even tried recruiting them. It's actually really clear that this advantage was lost by 2013 (easily their worst draft class ever) the same year they went all in for Harvin. That was classic Pete move, and the draft class sucked in 2014 too. Then I think for years they ended up being average to adequate because neither of them were fully in charge. I'm sure Pete made some of the picks that ended up working out but have to assume the really stupid moves (like drafting Malik McDowell or Rashaad Penny) was ultimately a Pete decision, and JS justified it because he was able to trade down to get him (giving him picks he could use in case Pete's high risk high reward move failed). Sometimes a risky approach is good, but the smarter moves would have been best player available when you look at all the talent that we could have accumulated at our original picks.

Well if you always play it safe you end up mediocre, John and Pete took risks on players like Sherman, Kam, and others and that built a foundation, Wagner was fast but considered undersized initially also, then trades for Clemons and moving Red to the Elephant position when other experts said he should be cut. Drafting a short scrambler in round 3, then you have Carson in the 7th.

 

[DarkVictory23]

Dude'll bend over backwards to convince everyone of Lock's perpetual victimhood but call for Geno's execution if he so much as dares not to throw a touchdown on any given throw. Interesting.

I'm assuming Drew is like his cousin or something. Former classmate? I had a teacher who was friend's with Trent Dilfer, so I was unreasonably big on Trent back in the day and I never even met the dude.

The loss of Drew was a direct result of coaches choosing to extend Geno. Maybe they want Drew to develop more in a year or two, but he got a better deal with New York.

Who knows if this way the right move or not, not sure if keeping Geno was the best move, but someone made a decision, and the rest is history.

The Giants may have just have robbed the Seahawks blind, find out in a year or two of the result.

The Giants robbed us blind? They took a guy who was a slightly below average backup and paid him a million more than we did.

Howell is being compared to starters, where he rated quite poorly. But if we're comparing him to QB2s? He's also just slightly below average... and he's 4 years younger. And $4 million cheaper.

If Drew turns it around with the Giants, that's amazing but it's not a robbery. Drew was not good when we got him. He continued to not be good here. If we got into a bidding war over a below average backup QB, that would be professional malpractice.

I am happy for Drew because--regardless of what the media here is reporting--NYG is the place where he has the single best chance to start in the NFL. So, he'll have the chance to start and (possibly) turn around his career.

 

[Maelstrom787]

It's pretty much irrelevant whether or not you believe it. Pete held a title that literally made him John's boss. That is a fact.

But we're not arguing org chart so much as we're trying to deduce which party was the driving force behind certain personnel decisions

 

[godawg]

I am glad that we have Howell instead of Lock. Howell is a gamer, whereas even at his best, Lock seemed like a deer in the headlights. The dramatic drive that Lock directed to beat the Eagles depended on exceptional catches by DK and JSN, and could just as easily have ended with an interception. In his short stay with the Hawks, Lock flinged some truly horrendous passes.

 

[bobsuncle]

I don't get why some of the folks here are eager to bash JS. It's like some fans want to dislike the team they root for. It's very weird.

 

[flv2]

I think the Giants will give Jones every chance to be the QB for 2025. His salary falls to a non-guaranteed $30.5M next year so he probably won't have to be as good in 2024 as Mayfield was in 2023 with the Buccaneers to be retained.

We won't get the op's thoughts on this.