Letting Wagner go may be the dagger

[acer1240]

I don't know if Barton has an injury or something but he's going to cost us some more games this season. It seems like he is uninterested. Not a good trait for a linebacker. Pete has brought in Irvin for leadership but I'm wondering why they just didn't hold on to Bobby. They had the cap space. Not trying to be negative but this team really needs better linebacker play. Not sure if Austin Ekeler is a superstar but he sure looked like one. If this season derailes it's going to be because of missed tackles that Bobby would have made.

 

[sutz]

I'm not so sure they "had the cap space" to keep Bobby. Moving Wilson cost us a bunch in dead cap IIRC. Add another $18 mill on top of that and we'd be fielding a 50 man team every Sunday.

 

[acer1240]

You might be right sutz. I didn't look up the actual numbers but as we all know, you can get creative with restructuring and all.

 

[sutz]

You might be right sutz. I didn't look up the actual numbers but as we all know, you can get creative with restructuring and all.

True, but there can be a cost to pay for being too creative as well.

 

[acer1240]

True, but there can be a cost to pay for being too creative as well.

Worked for the Rams

 

[Cyrus12]

Barton just flat out sucks...Hopefully Irvin alleviates some of how much Barton will be out there. They will address this next year.

 

[DarkVictory23]

I don't know if Barton has an injury or something but he's going to cost us some more games this season. It seems like he is uninterested. Not a good trait for a linebacker. Pete has brought in Irvin for leadership but I'm wondering why they just didn't hold on to Bobby. They had the cap space. Not trying to be negative but this team really needs better linebacker play. Not sure if Austin Ekeler is a superstar but he sure looked like one. If this season derailes it's going to be because of missed tackles that Bobby would have made.

We knew Bobby wanted to get paid and he is getting slower. At the time, changing defensive schemes, it was the perfect time to move on. We were going to transition to a new scheme that featured Adams as the centerpiece and the defacto leader.

On top of that, Barton looked serviceable in relief of Bobby last season.

In hindsight, not a great plan. Adams is out, we apparently have reverted back to a one-gap defensive tech (which Bobby knows well), Barton has regressed terribly, and we need leadership in our LB corps way more than speed.

So, yeah, if Pete could have predicted the future, maybe we would have kept Wagner but it didn't seem like a bad move at the time.

 

[acer1240]

Great points Dark. I'm just wondering how much better this team with Bobby would be is all.

 

[Mad Dog]

Great points Dark. I'm just wondering how much better this team with Bobby would be is all.

They would be better, for sure. But likely not as much better as you would think. Bottom line is that LB's don't make a huge difference compared to DB's and DL. That's why they get paid so much less than a star CB or star EDGE.

Just remember, the defense sucked with Bobby the last couple years too. In fact, this turnaoround was likely quicker and that's with 2 rookies in the defensive backfield.

 

[LickMyNuts]

If you want to develop young players you have to get rid of veterans and let them play.

Sometimes you find out they’re not very good after they play for a bit.

Learning on the job can be very expensive in the NFL.

 

[andyh64000]

The dagger would have been spending $22m of cap space on a linebacker who looked like he was carrying a piano on his back last season.

 

[acer1240]

You guys may be changing my mind. I forget that Bobby isn't exactly young anymore but it would be nice to see a guaranteed tackle more often.

 

[DarkVictory23]

Great points Dark. I'm just wondering how much better this team with Bobby would be is all.

With Bobby, we're probably 6-1 right now, but that's spilt milk at this point.

Our defense last two games is about on-par (maybe a little better?) with last year. If it stays at this level, we'll have gotten over that hump. It sounds like it took some time for the leadership on the defensive side of the ball to develop but now that it has (combined with some scheme adjustments) we could be fine.

Barton is still an issue but our issues before were bigger than one LB getting lost and we had dudes who got lost last year, too.

 

[ivotuk]

The dagger would have been spending $22m of cap space on a linebacker who looked like he was carrying a piano on his back last season.

Exactly!! Dave Wyman said "Bobby is catching blocks, instead of taking them on." Bobby is washed up, and certainly isn't worth the money he was getting paid.
'Not every player on a team can be a Pro Bowler.

Who would you sacrfice off of this roster to pay Wagner? And don't say Cody Barton because the contracts are not even in the same hemisphere. You'd have to sacrifice someone that is getting paid 15+ million.

Also, it would hinder your chances of re-signing Geno. You would sacrifice all of that to get Wagner back on a defense that is already playing lights out?

You have to have young players, and "average" players on a team. That's the way the NFL is built, and why they have parity in the league. Cody does not suck. He's been really good before, but right now the league has gone to a lot of spread type offenses, and Cody isn't built for that. That's why Seattle is going to more nickel. To combat the type of plays the NFL is calling.

Cody's a mid round pick, and people expect him to play to the level of a Hall of Famer. We drafted Jordyn Brooks in the 1st round for that because of his speed. 2 games in to the defense finally playing top notch is NOT a time to talk about cutting players. It's a loooonnnggg season.

 

[DarkVictory23]

You have to have young players, and "average" players on a team. That's the way the NFL is built, and why they have parity in the league. Cody does not suck. He's been really good before, but right now the league has gone to a lot of spread type offenses, and Cody isn't built for that. That's why Seattle is going to more nickel. To combat the type of plays the NFL is calling.

Cody's a mid round pick, and people expect him to play to the level of a Hall of Famer. We drafted Jordyn Brooks in the 1st round for that because of his speed. 2 games in to the defense finally playing top notch is NOT a time to talk about cutting players. It's a loooonnnggg season.

The problem with Cody is he just seems lost. The issue that's concerning is... he was fine last year. He wasn't as smart as Bobby and didn't have the sense he did, but he fit in fine when he came in. This year, it's not about his speed, it's about him seeming to never know where to be.

Now, the last two games, we seem to have gone back to one-gap tech vs. two gap. (This is the word I have heard; I have not personally verified this). It seems like everybody else's production improved considerably. Theoretically, Barton's should have, too. One-gap tech for 3-4 isn't terribly different execution wise from 4-3. So why is he still lost?

I don't want him cut. The defense seems to have turned a corner overall and I think we need the depth. But Barton's regression this year, even going back to a technique that he should be comfortable with, is still something of concern.

 

[Sun Tzu]

Exactly!! Dave Wyman said "Bobby is catching blocks, instead of taking them on." Bobby is washed up, and certainly isn't worth the money he was getting paid.
'Not every player on a team can be a Pro Bowler.

Who would you sacrfice off of this roster to pay Wagner? And don't say Cody Barton because the contracts are not even in the same hemisphere. You'd have to sacrifice someone that is getting paid 15+ million.

Also, it would hinder your chances of re-signing Geno. You would sacrifice all of that to get Wagner back on a defense that is already playing lights out?

You have to have young players, and "average" players on a team. That's the way the NFL is built, and why they have parity in the league. Cody does not suck. He's been really good before, but right now the league has gone to a lot of spread type offenses, and Cody isn't built for that. That's why Seattle is going to more nickel. To combat the type of plays the NFL is calling.

Cody's a mid round pick, and people expect him to play to the level of a Hall of Famer. We drafted Jordyn Brooks in the 1st round for that because of his speed. 2 games in to the defense finally playing top notch is NOT a time to talk about cutting players. It's a loooonnnggg season.

The term washed up or washed gets overused on dot net and by fans in general. Wagner is currently starting for an NFL team with aspirations of competing, and leading that team in tackles. He is playing solid football this year and played solid last year. He is not washed up and it is disrespectful to say he is.

Multiple things can be true: Bobby is still a good football player; he is not as good as he was in his prime; he would be an upgrade for the Hawks this year; he was no longer contributing at a level to justify his contract $; his leadership would be valuable this year; eventually a team has to move on from vets to allow young players to develop; the Hawks' record and defense would likely be better if he were still here; moving on was likely necessary to make room for the youth movement and for cap savings.

 

[CDN_C_Hawk]

If you want to develop young players you have to get rid of veterans and let them play.

Sometimes you find out they’re not very good after they play for a bit.

Learning on the job can be very expensive in the NFL.

I think Barton , just doesn't have the football mind , like Wagner had and with Bobby in his ear , played well, that gave the impression he was ready to lead the LB'ing core . Barton just looks completely lost out there , with a Pro-bowler like Bobby coaching him up now. I think drafting, Henry To'oTo'o , Alabama in late 1st or early 2nd might be best. look at getting Hendon Hooker in second/third and sit behind Geno for a year.

 

[Rainger]

I think we need to be patient with Barton. He had a good year last year. Yes we also had BW at the time. But I think it will sort itself out. It could be scheme, but I am sure Pete will figure it out and ensure Barton is coached up. Lots of time for him to find himself.

 

[morgulon1]

Great points Dark. I'm just wondering how much better this team with Bobby would be is all.

Ive watched him a little and he's slower. Even to my untrained eye. Like dude said, it was a good time to make a clean start.

 

[Mick063]

Seahawks have extra draft capital and a little cap room next year and this isn't the year for luxury pieces. Don't worry, the luxury pieces are coming (and Wagner is a luxury piece). Spend the Denver draft picks first and then give the staff a year to separate the wheat from the chaffe. Then....purchase the luxury pieces to put the team over the top because at that time, they will know precisely what holes are needed to be filled (and it still very well could be middle linebacker, but who knows what will fall into their lap on draft day).

There is enough instant gratification to serve us well this year. Let the process work. I personally believe the Retool is ahead of schedule. The window truly opens after the next draft.

I believe in Geno. I believe in paying Geno. But........if a unique 1st round QB talent falls into their lap on draft day, the Seahawks have to take him. Hell, if I had Mahomes or Allen at QB, I would feel the same way.