Key to this seasons turnaround: Trading Percy Harvin

[akscoundrel]

Percy is an easy cop out, but I disagree. The difference has been our defense getting healthy and suffocating opponents. Offense still has a long ways to go. Offense has been better at times, but that just boiled down to handing lynch the ball, which you can't blame percy for.

Okay, so (excluding Golden Tate) can you explain how we were able to win it all last Season without Harvin.
It's a complete fallacy to claim that teams don't need an offense to win.
Marshawn Lynch is essential to the Seahawks Offense, but Russell Wilson's ability to scramble, is also a huge part of the Seahawks Offensive success.
Percy Harvin wasn't pertinent to the Seahawks Offensive success, and in fact there was an obvious erosion that was developing with Percy on the roster, and because he didn't feel the need to conform, you do what Pete an John did, you jet-tison his young distracting ass, and be thankful that there was a team that was willing to take him.

Not sure what you're trying to argue besides the obvious, yes a team needs to score more points than the other team to win.

Last year, yes, we had Tate. Also had rice a good amount of time and miller. Kearse and Baldwin weren't dropping big plays. Bevell wasn't going full potato and not handing marshawn the ball. And even with all that, there were plenty of games where our offense was pretty anemic.

 

[akscoundrel]

If you're just going to judge Percy by his down field production, then sure, you could probably paint the picture that it was romanticized. But ultimately, he had two damn good years with favre. Receiver wise, as well as running and kick returning. I'm not here to argue how good of a qb favre ultimately was(better than Gino, that's for damn sure) but the reality is, favre was hooking up with Percy all over the field.

Scotte's point stands, Harvin was targeted deep less with Favre.

Also, Harvin's numbers in general held steady in Minny regardless of the QB, in fact he was on pace for a career year with Christian Ponder before getting hurt at Seattle in 2012. And Harvin loathed Ponder.

Harvin has never been a good deep threat at WR in the NFL. He led the league every year in YAC while running mostly intermediate and short routes. His best season (production per game - 2012), he likely had the lowest deep ball percentage in the league.

When Pete traded for him, he flat out said that Harvin was a RB at WR, then turned around and said that Golden Tate was a pure WR and not a RB at WR. He was very deliberate in making that distinction with therightright?

Harvin looked awkward as hell running deep stuff in Seattle except in the first week of August. But that's not really anything new, he's decently polished on shorter routes but looks lost running deep stuff and adjusting to the ball. The polish on short stuff likely stems from him running those short routes so much more frequently.

Plenty of thing not being accounted for. Favre also had cats like Sidney rice to throw the ball deeper to. Also, perhaps Harvin was just better in his third year? All in all, just saying its not a static environment to compare.

But ultimately, what are we trying to argue here? That Percy Harvin was an overrated scrub receiver because the deep ball wasn't his specialty? Yes, shame on him for turning a 8 yard reception into 40 yards, and not just running a 40 yard route, right?

 

[MysterMatt]

I've said it before, and I think it fits here.
IMO, Chemistry plays a huge role in the failure or success of every team.
We only know a small amount on what P.H. did for or to the Seahawks chemistry but think him being GONE has made a difference in the positive direction.

I concur.

It's water under the bridge, but when I think of who we could have had (draft picks) or who we could have kept due to salary, I kinda sorta want to barf a little. At the time I thought Harvin was a bold move, but now I think we'll feel the ripple effect for a while.

Thank goodness for chemistry, as it can help overcome a lack of talent. That said, I really hope we find a few more diamonds in the rough to offset the loss of the first and 3rd round picks.

 

[seabowl]

No way we are in this position today with Harvin still on the team for a myriad of reasons. Chemistry both on and off the field being the 2 that stand out the most.

 

[TheRealDTM]

Percy has been pretty good on the Jets. He's the figuratively perfect decoy too bad he's such a headcase.

 

[chet380]

Last NYJ game -

PH -- 124 yds receiving, 35 yd TD ... not bad for a no-talent bum

 

[Trenchbroom]

Last NYJ game -

PH -- 124 yds receiving, 35 yd TD ... not bad for a no-talent bum

Excellent. Maybe they will keep him and we'll get the max on the trade.

 

[Donn2390]

Harvin was injured in the last game and is questionable for this week.
Was he really injured or just being Percy and is done playing for a last place team..

 

[CHawK247]

Last NYJ game -

PH -- 124 yds receiving, 35 yd TD ... not bad for a no-talent bum

Percy never hurt this team. The playcalling did. If we used him half as much the way they are we may be looking at a 2 loss season.

 

[sutz]

Last NYJ game -

PH -- 124 yds receiving, 35 yd TD ... not bad for a no-talent bum

Percy never hurt this team. The playcalling did. If we used him half as much the way they are we may be looking at a 2 loss season.

Whatever. The problem was they were trying to force the game plan to him, rather than let things happen naturally. In SD, and against Dallas, it was obvious they were trying to force the ball to him. While PH was here, we weren't the Seahawks this year. After he left, we got back to our roots, tough running and opportunistic passing.

Best of luck to PH, but he didn't fit here. :229031_shrug:

 

[CHawK247]

Last NYJ game -

PH -- 124 yds receiving, 35 yd TD ... not bad for a no-talent bum

Percy never hurt this team. The playcalling did. If we used him half as much the way they are we may be looking at a 2 loss season.

Whatever. The problem was they were trying to force the game plan to him, rather than let things happen naturally. In SD, and against Dallas, it was obvious they were trying to force the ball to him. While PH was here, we weren't the Seahawks this year. After he left, we got back to our roots, tough running and opportunistic passing.

Best of luck to PH, but he didn't fit here. :229031_shrug:

Talk about contradiction. "We were trying to force him the ball, but he didn't fit here!." SMH Unreal! :roll:

How about the fact that we got healthy on D and #3 & #24 literally carried us when we were banged up? Seriously some of you need to open your eyes a bit. It wasn't his fault bevell decided to force a screen on every other snap.

We got back to pounding the rock after he left cuz thats all we have. We could have easily done that with him still here. One of his 3 Tds that was called back in Washington was a 50yd bomb. I'm thinking if the refs dont screw us on that he'd still be here. And you guys would still be in love.

 

[Year of The Hawk]

I dont think he fit here. He needed to part of the team. Russell spreads passes to 7+ receivers a game most games. If Percy would be happy with that and Bevell used hime like any other number 1 receiver then I think he could have been great but it was not to be. Next man up.

 

[MORGULON]

Percy is an easy cop out, but I disagree. The difference has been our defense getting healthy and suffocating opponents. Offense still has a long ways to go. Offense has been better at times, but that just boiled down to handing lynch the ball, which you can't blame percy for.

So are you saying that you don't think Harvin was a problem? That he didn't obviously alter what we tried to do strategy
wise? I don't have solid proof because the players/coaches will not comment publicly. Sometimes actions are louder than words though and to trade a top tier NFL playmaker hybrid for a late pick tells me all I need to know.

I believe the OP is correct. Although limited, Richardson and Norwood have been able to get on the field. Baldwin and
Kearse have made nice catches and maybe we aren't a top offense but were in the top 15. With this defense, it gets the
job done most of the time.

 

[Giblien]

If the stories about Percy causing fights in the locker room are true, there is no doubt his departure is good move. But to say that his departure is the "Key" to this season's turnaround might be overstating it. I think recommitting to the running game and the return of our outstanding players on defense has been the "Key".

 

[akscoundrel]

Percy is an easy cop out, but I disagree. The difference has been our defense getting healthy and suffocating opponents. Offense still has a long ways to go. Offense has been better at times, but that just boiled down to handing lynch the ball, which you can't blame percy for.

So are you saying that you don't think Harvin was a problem? That he didn't obviously alter what we tried to do strategy
wise? I don't have solid proof because the players/coaches will not comment publicly. Sometimes actions are louder than words though and to trade a top tier NFL playmaker hybrid for a late pick tells me all I need to know.

I believe the OP is correct. Although limited, Richardson and Norwood have been able to get on the field. Baldwin and
Kearse have made nice catches and maybe we aren't a top offense but were in the top 15. With this defense, it gets the
job done most of the time.

No, I'm saying this;

If the stories about Percy causing fights in the locker room are true, there is no doubt his departure is good move. But to say that his departure is the "Key" to this season's turnaround might be overstating it. I think recommitting to the running game and the return of our outstanding players on defense has been the "Key".

^ this. That's what I meant by copout (ignoring not handing the ball off to marshawn and the defense getting banged up and playing poor).

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Last NYJ game -

PH -- 124 yds receiving, 35 yd TD ... not bad for a no-talent bum

Wasn't he playing against the Vikings? And aren't those numbers well above any others he's posted with the Jets?

 

[scutterhawk]

That's what I meant by copout (ignoring not handing the ball off to marshawn and the defense getting banged up and playing poor).

But what you are leaving out in the equation, is that, while he was here, Percy 'The Malcontent' Harvin, wasn't key to our success, as he wasn't making enough plays when he was being featured, so that's not a "Copout"
Bevell drew up plays to try and get Percy Harvin the ball (which took the ball away from other players), so when he left, there was no real noticeable drop off in production, and in fact, the ball was spread around a lot more, and that alone accounted for keeping Defenses from being able to key on just one player...More touches to more players.
The Defense was banged up alright, but it was at those times, that RW & Co. were picking up the tab, and it isn't JUST handing the ball off that accounted for some highly successful plays, that's not giving RW the credit he deserves for HIS heads up plays.

 

[akscoundrel]

That's what I meant by copout (ignoring not handing the ball off to marshawn and the defense getting banged up and playing poor).

But what you are leaving out in the equation, is that, while he was here, Percy 'The Malcontent' Harvin, wasn't key to our success, as he wasn't making enough plays when he was being featured, so that's not a "Copout"
Bevell drew up plays to try and get Percy Harvin the ball (which took the ball away from other players), so when he left, there was no real noticeable drop off in production, and in fact, the ball was spread around a lot more, and that alone accounted for keeping Defenses from being able to key on just one player...More touches to more players.
The Defense was banged up alright, but it was at those times, that RW & Co. were picking up the tab, and it isn't JUST handing the ball off that accounted for some highly successful plays, that's not giving RW the credit he deserves for HIS heads up plays.

Sure. I'm not arguing that Percy didn't produce like we had hoped. I'm saying the defense getting healthy, getting their swag back and playing lights out is the biggest key to this seasons turnaround. Its not like we are blowing teams out of the water with points.

 

[byau]

Sure. I'm not arguing that Percy didn't produce like we had hoped. I'm saying the defense getting healthy, getting their swag back and playing lights out is the biggest key to this seasons turnaround. Its not like we are blowing teams out of the water with points.

And it can be all related.

Whatever issues Percy had, by letting him go you are not just getting rid of the bad behavior you are showing your current players you value their good behavior. You are enforcing the proper attitude and behavior

So you are getting athletes back, but you are also getting the attitude and behavior back which altogether gives them that confidence, trust, and swagger.

Bill Parcells on ESPN Mike & Mike, asked about the RG3 situation and the mess of the Redskins

"No matter what you gave up for the guy, if it's not working, it's not working."

"Everybody wants it to work out, but there are just cases where it doesn't work out and that's when you decide if you want to cut your losses or just keep going down the same road."

Love our Seahawks and the FO

 

[akscoundrel]

Sure. I'm not arguing that Percy didn't produce like we had hoped. I'm saying the defense getting healthy, getting their swag back and playing lights out is the biggest key to this seasons turnaround. Its not like we are blowing teams out of the water with points.

And it can be all related.

Whatever issues Percy had, by letting him go you are not just getting rid of the bad behavior you are showing your current players you value their good behavior. You are enforcing the proper attitude and behavior

So you are getting athletes back, but you are also getting the attitude and behavior back which altogether gives them that confidence, trust, and swagger.

Bill Parcells on ESPN Mike & Mike, asked about the RG3 situation and the mess of the Redskins

"No matter what you gave up for the guy, if it's not working, it's not working."

"Everybody wants it to work out, but there are just cases where it doesn't work out and that's when you decide if you want to cut your losses or just keep going down the same road."

Love our Seahawks and the FO

True. But when you're defense is holding opponents to 3 points a game, it's kinda hard not to win that game

Personally I'd point more towards getting Wagner back and kam getting healthy as being the turn around point.