Jalen Carter stick a fork in him

Chukarhawk

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Except on film, all I’ve seen is fire. Taking up triple teams to free up pass rush, chasing plays up and down the line, etc.

Again, gauging “fire” off his pro day is like gauging someones job performance the day before a funeral. (His plea deal wasn’t done until the day after.)

We get fooled by this stuff every single draft. Myles Garrett was famously questioned for his football passion because he had other interests outside of football. Were Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril less effective players because they took a heavy interest in finance during their playing career? (Go listen to Cliff on the KJ Wright Show)

And on the contrary, let’s remember all the pro days that fooled people. Jamarcus Russell probably the most infamous.

I find is silly that two data points and Todd McShay have empowered the entire media and every NFL fan to tear down a young man—when many people made mistakes that young, have felt the stress of legal matters hanging over their day to day, and no one has been so hyper scrutinized through their experiences by millions of people.

Seattle might not draft Carter. But there’s absolutely a scenario where we look back in a few seasons and bash Pete and John for letting him go by. Because like Schneider said on Wyman and Bob, you have to figure out a players whole story, not just chapters ABC. Carter’s in a tough spot right now. How’s he going to come back now that his charges are addressed and once the media attention fades? That’s what John and Pete have to answer.
the bottom line is he's really out of shape and made no effort to improve his cardio. If he had, he wouldn't have been so gassed he couldn't even complete his position drills. Making excuses for this kid is whistling past the graveyard. He had very little production in college to back up a top 5 pick and it sound like one of the main reasons is he couldn't stay on the field because he was in such poor shape. That doesn't sound like a guy that is committed to playing at the next level.
 

Bear-Hawk

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For what it’s worth Lions are saying Carter is on their do not draft list. I can see a veteran and talented team like Philly taking a chance on him. I am not taking in consideration what has happened recently that much but what has happened leading up with the lack of conditioning during the season, lack of a consistent motor and laying an egg against Ohio State. For a player who is as highly regarded as Carter his stats are underwhelming. I am surprised his agent let him workout during the Georgia Pro Day knowing how out of shape he is the agent could have just said Carter is sick and nobody would be talking about how bad he looked.
I don’t trust anything Lions say. I can’t speak for other teams, but Bears would not be inviting him for a private workout and interviews if they were not still interested. If all that checks out, they will discount the rest of this stuff. But my bet is that he’s gone before #9 anyway.
 

AgentDib

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Everyone's got it all figured out when it comes to this kid. None of us have a fraction of the resources and information that Pete and John have. Just trust that if he's there when they pick, they'll make the right decision.
While I agree with the sentiment, it applies to every other area of the team as well. Part of the fun of being a fan is coming up with your own opinions and then constantly re-evaluating them as events unfold.

I wouldn't take Carter at #5. I had work ethic concerns originally and now I really dislike how he has handled the last two months. However, if the FO called me while on the clock at #5 and asked me what to do, then I'd tell them to do what they thought was best. That doesn't prevent me from having my own opinions, and if the team does take Carter and gets high effort out of him then I'll give them credit for it.
 

BlueTalon

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While I agree with the sentiment, it applies to every other area of the team as well. Part of the fun of being a fan is coming up with your own opinions and then constantly re-evaluating them as events unfold.

I wouldn't take Carter at #5. I had work ethic concerns originally and now I really dislike how he has handled the last two months. However, if the FO called me while on the clock at #5 and asked me what to do, then I'd tell them to do what they thought was best. That doesn't prevent me from having my own opinions, and if the team does take Carter and gets high effort out of him then I'll give them credit for it.
I'd like Carter at #5, but I otherwise share your attitude and approach.
 

Chevy

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This is where I land on Jalen Carter.

He's young and enabled. He's going through the ringer in the media (right after riding high from a second championship.) He's been arrested, he's had legal issues, and I think it's normal for a young man in his 20s to lose focus.

But (as the video below goes into) he seems like a good kid on the field and a good teammate.

And now that he can't be further charged in the accident, I think that wipes the legal concerns off the board.

If Seattle does their homework and drafts him, I can see why. Using your scholarship to pay for a teammates lunch who didn't have lunch covered speaks volumes to me. And by all accounts, he's loved by his teammates.


Being a nice guy doesn't mean he is dedicated to honing is craft as a football player. He is nice to his teammates, but doesn't put the work in the gym or have the discipline to stay in shape. I don't want to use the #5 overall pick on a big athletic nice guy, who is out of shape, and lazy.
 

Yxes1122

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Being a nice guy doesn't mean he is dedicated to honing is craft as a football player. He is nice to his teammates, but doesn't put the work in the gym or have the discipline to stay in shape. I don't want to use the #5 overall pick on a big athletic nice guy, who is out of shape, and lazy.

You don’t become the most dominant player on the most dominant defense in the most dominant conference in college football, by being lazy.

Football players, no matter how good, are allowed to have a human experience. Do we question Tom Brady’s commitment to football when he skips training camp to go on a trip with his family in a last ditch effort to save his marriage? Was Shelby Harris lazy when he left the team to deal with a personal matter during the season? Was Marshawn Lynch lazy when he didn’t want to practice? Was Russ lazy when the inevitable summer dad bod pick would circulate in the off-season.

What matters is what he shows in games and how he meshes with a locker room.

I think it’s fair to question his commitment to football. That’s a very valid question of any person entering a job. But it’s not like he’s been resting on college laurels. The dude was arrested during the combine, had his story plastered everywhere, has had every aspect of himself psychoanalyzed by football fans that don’t know the details of his story, the chemistry in his locker room, or even the details of the scheme he played in.

I don’t know why it’s impossible to even consider that maybe, having a public arrest and not having his plea accepted until the day AFTER his pro day, entitles a man in his early 20s to some level of grace. Everyone’s so convinced he’s this Malik McDowell clone, when he could just as easily be someone that just needs to be in a locker room again and allowed to focus on his craft instead of on this media circus that he’s been on since draft season kicked off.
 

Chevy

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You don’t become the most dominant player on the most dominant defense in the most dominant conference in college football, by being lazy.

Football players, no matter how good, are allowed to have a human experience. Do we question Tom Brady’s commitment to football when he skips training camp to go on a trip with his family in a last ditch effort to save his marriage? Was Shelby Harris lazy when he left the team to deal with a personal matter during the season? Was Marshawn Lynch lazy when he didn’t want to practice? Was Russ lazy when the inevitable summer dad bod pick would circulate in the off-season.

What matters is what he shows in games and how he meshes with a locker room.

I think it’s fair to question his commitment to football. That’s a very valid question of any person entering a job. But it’s not like he’s been resting on college laurels. The dude was arrested during the combine, had his story plastered everywhere, has had every aspect of himself psychoanalyzed by football fans that don’t know the details of his story, the chemistry in his locker room, or even the details of the scheme he played in.

I don’t know why it’s impossible to even consider that maybe, having a public arrest and not having his plea accepted until the day AFTER his pro day, entitles a man in his early 20s to some level of grace. Everyone’s so convinced he’s this Malik McDowell clone, when he could just as easily be someone that just needs to be in a locker room again and allowed to focus on his craft instead of on this media circus that he’s been on since draft season kicked off.
He was not dominant, he showed flashes of dominance. But he was too out of shape to stay on the field, he even admitted it a couple of different times he needed to improve his cardio. Dude just relies on being a big athlete. Iowa backup DE Lukas Van Ness played almost 100 more reps, this year, than the supposed generational prospect Jalen Carter.

Also, I didn't mention Carter's car incident, and I didn't bring it up in the post that you quoted me. That was after the season.
 
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Yxes1122

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He was not dominant, he showed flashes of dominance. But he was too out of shape to stay on the field, he even admitted it a couple of different times he needed to improve his cardio. Dude just relies on being a big athlete. Iowa backup DE Lukas Van Ness played almost 100 more reps, this year, than the supposed generational prospect Jalen Carter.

Also, I didn't mention Carter's car incident, and I didn't bring it up in the post that you quoted me. That was after the season.

Fair enough.

I took issue with the word lazy and maybe looked into your meaning deeper than intended. I’ve seen a lot of pretty harsh dismissals of a young man based on the arrest and the pro day when I think there are extenuating circumstances. I don’t think this is a Jachai Polite situation.

That said, if we see different things when we watch him play, then we just disagree on what we’re seeing in game. Which, all good. Plenty of room to discuss his play.
 

AgentDib

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I don’t know why it’s impossible to even consider that maybe, having a public arrest and not having his plea accepted until the day AFTER his pro day, entitles a man in his early 20s to some level of grace.
There is "some level of grace" and then there is "should we spend the #5 overall pick and a $21.7m signing bonus on this guy." I'm not saying that Carter is a bad person, he just appears to not be overly committed to football or this job interview process. That makes me strongly doubt how committed he will be to our football team if he gets generational wealth before he even steps into the building. That doesn't mean I'm not rooting for him to succeed.
 

olyfan63

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There is "some level of grace" and then there is "should we spend the #5 overall pick and a $21.7m signing bonus on this guy." I'm not saying that Carter is a bad person, he just appears to not be overly committed to football or this job interview process. That makes me strongly doubt how committed he will be to our football team if he gets generational wealth before he even steps into the building. That doesn't mean I'm not rooting for him to succeed.
Now THAT is a great take. If Jalen Carter is already a guaranteed multimillionaire before stepping into VMAC, will he pull an Albert Haynesworth lite? His choices and behaviors suggest he's a risk for that.
 

Hawkinaz

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Being a nice guy doesn't mean he is dedicated to honing is craft as a football player. He is nice to his teammates, but doesn't put the work in the gym or have the discipline to stay in shape. I don't want to use the #5 overall pick on a big athletic nice guy, who is out of shape, and lazy.
Couldn’t agree more!
 

scutterhawk

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Carter got injured and could have taken the rest of the year off and waited for the NFL draft, instead he came back to his team and won a NC.

But now every yokel is buying into this narrative because of the horrific accident that he did not cause.

This guy is still dealing with his friends deaths. He performed on the field all year long. At some point, tape matters more.
Only SIX Sacks?, so which "tape" do we focus on to get a better overall take on his 'Get After It'?
Sure, he's feeling down about his friends dying from that Street Racing >That HE Was Involved in<, but not laying it all out on his Pro-Showing is going to end up costing him Million$.
You're thinking that anyone who is considering Drafting the guy HIGH in the 1st Round shouldn't do their due diligence and just ignore his seeming lack of 'Prove It'? That's kind of a big ask if we're being honest.
 

Chevy

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Having read some more negative stuff about him, I'm back on the don't take him in the 1st round.
 
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