It's time to start talking about benching Wilson.

[Spin Doctor]

Carroll really needs to make the decisions that he's paid the big bucks to make. Wilson's physical abilities are clearly hindered. We marched Wilson out after 4 weeks with an injury that normally takes much longer to recover from. I love Wilson but his ego needs to be checked, because right now he is Mr. Limited. I think he needs some more time on the bench, not only to recover but also to reflect on a few things.

Russell Wilson is pressing right now, he has been pressing for over 17 games now. He's forgetting the fundamentals of the Quarterback position. His pocket passing is atrocious and he's tunnel visioning. Wilson is not seeing the field, and he's struggling at the LOS. He's not going through his progressions and he's looking for the knockout blow. He's like a boxer that keeps throwing wild haymakers. Yeah, if they hit it's going to hurt like hell -- if they don't hit you're going to get picked apart because now you're full of openings.

I think it's time we give Wilson a time out. I don't think we should move on from him, no -- but I do think he's not in the right frame of mind, and certainly he's still hurt. He looks a bit checked out in some respects as well. It was weird seeing him today, it just looked like he was going through the motions.

 

[WmHBonney]

It is past time but Pete doesn't have the balls.

 

[Seymour]

I don't think it's physical at all. His head isn't right. IMO David Carr syndrome has set in, and the finger injury is messing with his timing, decision making, and mechanics.

Carroll is in a pickle. Damned if he benches him (Geno.....really?), damned if he doesn't (DK and locker room knows Russ isn't right), and last but not least, if they do want to move on from Russ, they need to let him play through it and raise value.

 

[seabowl]

I don't think it's physical at all. His head isn't right. IMO David Carr syndrome has set in, and the finger injury is messing with his timing, decision making, and mechanics.

Carroll is in a pickle. Damned if he benches him (Geno.....really?), damned if he doesn't (DJ and locker room knows Russ isn't right), and last but not least, if they do want to move on from Russ, they need to let him play through it and raise value.

It’s 100% about his value as to why he’s playing now.

 

[jamescasey1124]

Nah. Let's let Waldron run what he wants and d continue playing hard. We will then win games. It's not just russ. Get off it.

Or give it over to russ for an entire game. Gurantee we see different results.

But that won't happen either.

Two culprits exist on a team that has shown the same consistency for losing over several years now. Russ just proved in less than 2 minutes it's not him. What about the other 58 minutes of the game guys?

Get a clue. Something bigger. Hindering the whole team. Defense and offense. Even are punt returner don't return or catch fair catch. They just point to the ball and let defenders decide placement.

The entire philosophy is off. Not just one player. Not just one side of the ball. Get a clue. Please.

 

[getnasty]

There's not a coach in the history of this league that would bench Russell Wilson for Geno Smith. Just never gonna happen.

 

[DarkVictory23]

It is past time but Pete doesn't have the balls.

Yeah, the time was at least a quarter ago (and he shouldn't have let him come back at all for the Green Bay game).

The fact is, what do we gain by benching him now? Season is kind of over. Now we'd just piss Russ off for a season that can't be turned around.

We don't have a young QB who we need to see what he has. I like Geno, but we got him to be a backup and he's kind of a known quantity at this point.


What it's really time for is to look at drafting a QB and perhaps start opening up to the possibility of trading Russ if we can get value for him (though we're handicapped by the clause in his contract).

 

[chris98251]

There's not a coach in the history of this league that would bench Russell Wilson for Geno Smith. Just never gonna happen.

Oh yes there is and we had two here that would have.

 

[K.J WRIGHT]

We would be better if Geno had played. Love to see RW benched.

 

[Seymour]

There's not a coach in the history of this league that would bench Russell Wilson for Geno Smith. Just never gonna happen.

Oh yes there is and we had two here that would have.

Carroll flat out admitted that the only reason he lasted this long here is because of Russ (and he is right). Pete is screwed (and I don't really care either). Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Pete's biggest downfall is never building Russ even a respectable Oline. Russ's head is south and may never recover here, and they have a ridiculously bad run game.

 

[toffee]

I called for Pete to bench Russ at half time of GB game,
I called again for Pete to sit Russ for the Arizona game,
I was the only one advocated to trade Russ last off-season, only because his trade value peaked at that point, I made it clear that Russ' trade value could only drop.

My conclusion? Pete sold his soul to Wilson, the soulless Pete couldn't even if he wanted to sit or trade Russ.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Nah. Let's let Waldron run what he wants and d continue playing hard. We will then win games. It's not just russ. Get off it.

Or give it over to russ for an entire game. Gurantee we see different results.

But that won't happen either.

Two culprits exist on a team that has shown the same consistency for losing over several years now. Russ just proved in less than 2 minutes it's not him. What about the other 58 minutes of the game guys?

Get a clue. Something bigger. Hindering the whole team. Defense and offense. Even are punt returner don't return or catch fair catch. They just point to the ball and let defenders decide placement.

The entire philosophy is off. Not just one player. Not just one side of the ball. Get a clue. Please.

Nope. Russ is a huge part of the problem right now. He's not seeing open receivers and he is not reading the defenses pre-snap. He's pressing right now and tunnel visioning. This has been an issue since the later half of last year. He hasn't been capable of executing the procedural, meat and potatoes of the QB position. Teams are gaming him hard on defense. Coming out showing one look, then defaulting to tampa 2, taking away his deep throws. When those have been taken away he's been helpless and if they take it away for too long he starts trying to thread it into double coverage.

I'm no fan of this current iteration of Pete Carroll, I've made that clear many times before. I think he's lost his edge long ago. That being said --- Wilson has been a large part of the problem. His head is not in the right place at the moment. Carroll's offensive philosophy doesn't help, BUT our offensive woes go much deeper than that.

 

[keasley45]

I called for Pete to bench Russ at half time of GB game,
I called again for Pete to sit Russ for the Arizona game,
I was the only one advocated to trade Russ last off-season, only because for his trade value peaked at that point, 6 months ago, I made it clear that Russ' trade value could only drop.

My conclusion? Pete sold his soul to Wilson, the soulless Pete couldn't even if he wanted to sit or trade Russ.

It makes ZERO sense to continue to play Russel IF the FO cares about the next few years upcoming. Rolling him out there week after week for more performances like this gets us nothing. If we are going to lose, we might as well be certain as to whether we need two new QBs in house next year or just a starter. Playing Geno doesnt mean he's better than Russ, it gives you a barometer for what you think you can accomplish IF you had to play him next year or how much you should maybe sacrifice to get the next guy in. In other words, if we are moving on, is Geno a good enough of a stopgap to run what Shane wants and give us a chance to be competitive, or is he not even that and we move on from him too.

There's still talk in the league that Russ's problem is his finger. You have about another week of playing like this before it becomes about his ability as a signal caller. And if that happens, we've screwed ourselves in terms of his trade value.

 

[jamescasey1124]

Nah. Let's let Waldron run what he wants and d continue playing hard. We will then win games. It's not just russ. Get off it.

Or give it over to russ for an entire game. Gurantee we see different results.

But that won't happen either.

Two culprits exist on a team that has shown the same consistency for losing over several years now. Russ just proved in less than 2 minutes it's not him. What about the other 58 minutes of the game guys?

Get a clue. Something bigger. Hindering the whole team. Defense and offense. Even are punt returner don't return or catch fair catch. They just point to the ball and let defenders decide placement.

The entire philosophy is off. Not just one player. Not just one side of the ball. Get a clue. Please.

Nope. Russ is a huge part of the problem right now. He's not seeing open receivers and he is not reading the defenses pre-snap. He's pressing right now and tunnel visioning. This has been an issue since the later half of last year. He hasn't been capable of executing the procedural, meat and potatoes of the QB position. Teams are gaming him hard on defense. Coming out showing one look, then defaulting to tampa 2, taking away his deep throws. When those have been taken away he's been helpless and if they take it away for too long he starts trying to thread it into double coverage.

I'm no fan of this current iteration of Pete Carroll, I've made that clear many times before. I think he's lost his edge long ago. That being said --- Wilson has been a large part of the problem. His head is not in the right place at the moment. Carroll's offensive philosophy doesn't help, BUT our offensive woes go much deeper than that.

Huge part of problem? Except he wasn't last two minutes?
Doesn't make sense.

Where did the running game go? Why did the d allow multiple long scoring drives. Not only wearing them out but allowing points? Allowing 4th down conversions. Some times stopping them.

Losing is a team problem. Russ could do better hitting open recievers. Let's some balls sail yes. But how does the conclusion he is broken solve anything when he can drive the field in less than two minutes?

It doesn't. On that drive he converted multiple short passes. Multiple sideline passes. Tell me why we can do that in two minutes but not the entire game?

It's not russ. The entire team is broken. That indicates coaching.

Also, non of this would be point of discussion with onside kick not being a illegal formation. Or Collins fumble on a hell of a drive. Or multiple pressures on russ. Or having no run game.

 

[keasley45]

Nah. Let's let Waldron run what he wants and d continue playing hard. We will then win games. It's not just russ. Get off it.

Or give it over to russ for an entire game. Gurantee we see different results.

But that won't happen either.

Two culprits exist on a team that has shown the same consistency for losing over several years now. Russ just proved in less than 2 minutes it's not him. What about the other 58 minutes of the game guys?

Get a clue. Something bigger. Hindering the whole team. Defense and offense. Even are punt returner don't return or catch fair catch. They just point to the ball and let defenders decide placement.

The entire philosophy is off. Not just one player. Not just one side of the ball. Get a clue. Please.

Nope. Russ is a huge part of the problem right now. He's not seeing open receivers and he is not reading the defenses pre-snap. He's pressing right now and tunnel visioning. This has been an issue since the later half of last year. He hasn't been capable of executing the procedural, meat and potatoes of the QB position. Teams are gaming him hard on defense. Coming out showing one look, then defaulting to tampa 2, taking away his deep throws. When those have been taken away he's been helpless and if they take it away for too long he starts trying to thread it into double coverage.

I'm no fan of this current iteration of Pete Carroll, I've made that clear many times before. I think he's lost his edge long ago. That being said --- Wilson has been a large part of the problem. His head is not in the right place at the moment. Carroll's offensive philosophy doesn't help, BUT our offensive woes go much deeper than that.

All of this ^^^

You can get upset with Pete for his 'defensive' offensive strategy and the current 'bend but dont break' defense, but i honestly dont see what other option there is to be competitive. We dont have the DL to help out the defense and if you cant execute the offensive plays at QB you're toast. And you're right, its not even just reading coverages, protection calls and route adjustments aren't even going out when the blitz is obvious.

At this point, the QB just needs to work within the offensive scheme and make simple reads.

Sometimes watching him play now it seems as though through maybe last year, it didnt matter to him what the defense was doing, because he knew he'd find a way to beat it. It seems like he's been accustomed to doing Russ and not playing the X's and O's, and now that he has to rely on them with an OC that was praised for his 'wizard' like knowledge of offense, he's struggling mightily.

No doubt the hits have taken their toll as well, whether because of bad blocking or holding the ball. At this point it doesnt matter.

But this game was a microcosm of whats wrong with #3. Misses basic plays, simple reads. Hits broken ones and if he can use his legs, can find the open guy. Then on the 2 point play, Swain is breaking to an opening in the back of the endzone and rather than throwing the ball in anticipation of him breaking open (which he was - just pausing there) Russ waits... and waits... long enough for the window to close.

 

[nwHawk]

How have loved a pump fake to the outside to draw the defender and make the opening slightly bigger. He’s eyes were drawing defenders into the void closing his window. Game over.

 

[toffee]

I called for Pete to bench Russ at half time of GB game,
I called again for Pete to sit Russ for the Arizona game,
I was the only one advocated to trade Russ last off-season, only because for his trade value peaked at that point, 6 months ago, I made it clear that Russ' trade value could only drop.

My conclusion? Pete sold his soul to Wilson, the soulless Pete couldn't even if he wanted to sit or trade Russ.

It makes ZERO sense to continue to play Russel IF the FO cares about the next few years upcoming. Rolling him out there week after week for more performances like this gets us nothing. If we are going to lose, we might as well be certain as to whether we need two new QBs in house next year or just a starter. Playing Geno doesnt mean he's better than Russ, it gives you a barometer for what you think you can accomplish IF you had to play him next year or how much you should maybe sacrifice to get the next guy in. In other words, if we are moving on, is Geno a good enough of a stopgap to run what Shane wants and give us a chance to be competitive, or is he not even that and we move on from him too.

There's still talk in the league that Russ's problem is his finger. You have about another week of playing like this before it becomes about his ability as a signal caller. And if that happens, we've screwed ourselves in terms of his trade value.

YUP, I am with you. Pete should have sat Russ after half time in GB, with him sitting 'nursing' that hurt finger, it actually preserves his trade value. Trucking him out there exposing his issues could only hurt, besides, we like to find out if Waldron's legit, we couldn't with Russ out there.

 

[keasley45]

Nah. Let's let Waldron run what he wants and d continue playing hard. We will then win games. It's not just russ. Get off it.

Or give it over to russ for an entire game. Gurantee we see different results.

But that won't happen either.

Two culprits exist on a team that has shown the same consistency for losing over several years now. Russ just proved in less than 2 minutes it's not him. What about the other 58 minutes of the game guys?

Get a clue. Something bigger. Hindering the whole team. Defense and offense. Even are punt returner don't return or catch fair catch. They just point to the ball and let defenders decide placement.

The entire philosophy is off. Not just one player. Not just one side of the ball. Get a clue. Please.

Nope. Russ is a huge part of the problem right now. He's not seeing open receivers and he is not reading the defenses pre-snap. He's pressing right now and tunnel visioning. This has been an issue since the later half of last year. He hasn't been capable of executing the procedural, meat and potatoes of the QB position. Teams are gaming him hard on defense. Coming out showing one look, then defaulting to tampa 2, taking away his deep throws. When those have been taken away he's been helpless and if they take it away for too long he starts trying to thread it into double coverage.

I'm no fan of this current iteration of Pete Carroll, I've made that clear many times before. I think he's lost his edge long ago. That being said --- Wilson has been a large part of the problem. His head is not in the right place at the moment. Carroll's offensive philosophy doesn't help, BUT our offensive woes go much deeper than that.

Huge part of problem? Except he wasn't last two minutes?
Doesn't make sense.

Where did the running game go? Why did the d allow multiple long scoring drives. Not only wearing them out but allowing points? Allowing 4th down conversions. Some times stopping them.

Losing is a team problem. Russ could do better hitting open recievers. Let's some balls sail yes. But how does the conclusion he is broken solve anything when he can drive the field in less than two minutes?

It doesn't. On that drive he converted multiple short passes. Multiple sideline passes. Tell me why we can do that in two minutes but not the entire game?

It's not russ. The entire team is broken. That indicates coaching.

Also, non of this would be point of discussion with onside kick not being a illegal formation. Or Collins fumble on a hell of a drive. Or multiple pressures on russ. Or having no run game.

Because the offense stalled the same way last season and never recovered for all of the same reasons.

Because the offense this year started hot again and then was figured out BEFORE Russ got hurt.

Because before his finger, the offense was bottom of the league in 3rd down, average drive duration and Russ specifically on 3rd down passing.

Because this is 3 weeks of the the same qb play.

You cant just say - well yeah, he misses open guys... The reason we lost to GB is because for 3+ quarters we confused and harrassed Rodgers to no end. The defense was brilliant. Then, as soon as we showed a weakness or there was an open guy, Rodgers made the play and began to turn the game. Thats why the guys who play that position at the elite level make the money they do. When the play is there, they make it over and over again. ESPECIALLY the obvious ones

And because the plays Russ hits are teh same plays he always hits - the long either broken play to Lockett or scramble drill, or PA pass. The pass to Swain was great but on that play he did something he has failed to do time and again for weeks - step up in the pocket. Its great that he did it then. Awesome that we scored. Credit the dude. But then on the 2pt, he holds the ball too long instead of hitting Swain as he's coming into the opening at the back of the endzone.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Nah. Let's let Waldron run what he wants and d continue playing hard. We will then win games. It's not just russ. Get off it.

Or give it over to russ for an entire game. Gurantee we see different results.

But that won't happen either.

Two culprits exist on a team that has shown the same consistency for losing over several years now. Russ just proved in less than 2 minutes it's not him. What about the other 58 minutes of the game guys?

Get a clue. Something bigger. Hindering the whole team. Defense and offense. Even are punt returner don't return or catch fair catch. They just point to the ball and let defenders decide placement.

The entire philosophy is off. Not just one player. Not just one side of the ball. Get a clue. Please.

Nope. Russ is a huge part of the problem right now. He's not seeing open receivers and he is not reading the defenses pre-snap. He's pressing right now and tunnel visioning. This has been an issue since the later half of last year. He hasn't been capable of executing the procedural, meat and potatoes of the QB position. Teams are gaming him hard on defense. Coming out showing one look, then defaulting to tampa 2, taking away his deep throws. When those have been taken away he's been helpless and if they take it away for too long he starts trying to thread it into double coverage.

I'm no fan of this current iteration of Pete Carroll, I've made that clear many times before. I think he's lost his edge long ago. That being said --- Wilson has been a large part of the problem. His head is not in the right place at the moment. Carroll's offensive philosophy doesn't help, BUT our offensive woes go much deeper than that.

Huge part of problem? Except he wasn't last two minutes?
Doesn't make sense.

Where did the running game go? Why did the d allow multiple long scoring drives. Not only wearing them out but allowing points? Allowing 4th down conversions. Some times stopping them.

Losing is a team problem. Russ could do better hitting open recievers. Let's some balls sail yes. But how does the conclusion he is broken solve anything when he can drive the field in less than two minutes?

It doesn't. On that drive he converted multiple short passes. Multiple sideline passes. Tell me why we can do that in two minutes but not the entire game?

It's not russ. The entire team is broken. That indicates coaching.

Also, non of this would be point of discussion with onside kick not being a illegal formation. Or Collins fumble on a hell of a drive. Or multiple pressures on russ. Or having no run game.

Okay, what about Wilson having the worst third down conversion in the NFL? You do realize that under the same exact circumstances, Geno Smith had a much higher third down conversion rate, right? I don't care about what Wilson does on onedrive, he was a liability the whole game. He should have been picked off several times, he missed open receivers and hasn't been seeing open receivers for awhile now. He's not playing good football. Refer to Kurt Warner's analysis and then look at Keasley's posts if you want more in depth examples with screenshots of Russ struggling with the same concepts that Warner was mentioning in his analysis.

This stuff has been an ongoing theme, now with his throwing hand screwed up, i don't think he should be out there. I think he is a good QB, but for the last year he's been pressing and now with his hand being screwed up he's just a liability rather than an asset. You can only shove so much blame onto Waldron and Pete, they're not part of the solution,. but right now Wilson is every bit as culpable as they are.

 

[12th And Loud]

If you think that Geno Smith will elevate the level of play beyond what Russ can do even when he is injured, then I really don't even know what to say.

Geno Smith.