Is Bevell to blame for much of this teams discontent?

[semiahmoo]

And since the other side need countless posts to say the same thing over and over and over again, I'll repeat that if Lockette was a half a step quicker as the play was designed and which he likely rehearsed 100s of times in practice, the play goes for a touchdown. Butler was the only one who could deny us and he made a spectacular burst to get to the ball first.

Indeed, and Butler was sent in to do just that. They knew the play better than we did.

Superior coaching won.

Glad to see you agree with me.

My accuracy rate is now at 99.44%

Remarkable!

I hardly think we're in agreement. And matching your socks 99.4% of the time is indeed quite the accomplishment.

Isn't this a personal attack on Semi because siouxhawk lacked the ability to retort with a substantive response. I agree it's not really sioux's fault because he is wrong in this case and there isn't much in the way of a logical rebuttal, but why the PM to semi instead of sioux?

It was a poor playcall by carroll and Bevell, and Belicheck took advantage of that poor strategy. Seems like a legit thing to point out in a thread about Bevell.

Thank you. I've never attacked or harassed anyone in here, called them names, dumb, etc.

I do share an opinion, such as the horrible play call that is now known simply as "The Play" in Super Bowl lore as being perhaps the worst in all of Super Bowl history. I also openly consider Bill Belichick to be a superior modern-era NFL coach than Pete Carroll. That is not to say Caroll is not a good coach - I just don't consider him a great one. As for Bevell, ah, don't get me started!

Seems odd we can't all love the same team even if we have differences in how we view that team.

Yeah?

P.S. My accuracy is fallen a bit to 98.23% I'm going to work on improving...

GO HAWKS!

 

[Siouxhawk]

And since the other side need countless posts to say the same thing over and over and over again, I'll repeat that if Lockette was a half a step quicker as the play was designed and which he likely rehearsed 100s of times in practice, the play goes for a touchdown. Butler was the only one who could deny us and he made a spectacular burst to get to the ball first.

Indeed, and Butler was sent in to do just that. They knew the play better than we did.

Superior coaching won.

Glad to see you agree with me.

My accuracy rate is now at 99.44%

Remarkable!

I hardly think we're in agreement. And matching your socks 99.4% of the time is indeed quite the accomplishment.

Isn't this a personal attack on Semi because siouxhawk lacked the ability to retort with a substantive response. I agree it's not really sioux's fault because he is wrong in this case and there isn't much in the way of a logical rebuttal, but why the PM to semi instead of sioux?

It was a poor playcall by carroll and Bevell, and Belicheck took advantage of that poor strategy. Seems like a legit thing to point out in a thread about Bevell.

And FTR, his logic hasn't been very substantive, more often than not boiling down to heresay and his own opinion that he passes off as fact. And not to mention repeating the same old message time after time.

 

[nash72]

What semi is saying now though isn't hearsay. They knew what play we were running and it was so bad that its still fresh in everybodys minds 3 years later.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Well it's not like we don't do the same kind of scouting and detect play calls by reading keys. Happens all the time.

My point is that even with them having a pretty good idea of what was coming, that play likely results in a touchdown if 1 of 3 things happen. There are risks to every play. The Patriots played it flawlessly and it turned into a very bad outcome for us. But I still believe we score 90 times out of 100 facing that same defensive set with the play. Maybe we'll soon get that chance again.

 

[scutterhawk]

The fact that the defense was so battered and still kept us in that game is almost miraculous. In all rights, NE should have killed us. You want so much attention directed at the defense, but yet you never bring up the goose eggs the offense contributed in the 1st and 4th. Maybe that passed over you because its so common with this organization.

In all rights NE DID kill us with a 10 point come back...But we needn't redirect our focus on anything but your hate for Bevell. You want us to OMIT facts that don't jive with your close minded opinion....No Way, Shape, or Form am I going to do that.
Is this part of that "Alternate Reality" that Kellyann Conway has been trying to get everybody to buy into ?

Just keep blaming the defense and giving the offense a pass for two scoreless quarters. Heaven forbid the offense and the coordinator answer with some points of their own. Shame the team overcame that and was in line to win the game, but due to one of the worst play calls of all time,,,,,,,,

For crying out loud NASH, it was NOT the "Worst Play Call Of ALL TIME, it was SHITTY EXECUTION.
There is NO getting around the FACTS-------->Defense has it's share of FAULT, and SHARES IN THE BLAME FOR THAT LOSS.

 

[scutterhawk]

The fact that the defense was so battered and still kept us in that game is almost miraculous. In all rights, NE should have killed us. You want so much attention directed at the defense, but yet you never bring up the goose eggs the offense contributed in the 1st and 4th. Maybe that passed over you because its so common with this organization.

In all rights NE DID kill us with a 10 point come back...But we needn't redirect our focus on anything but your hate for Bevell. You want us to OMIT facts that don't jive with your close minded opinion....No Way, Shape, or Form am I going to do that.
Is this part of that "Alternate Reality" that Kellyann Conway has been trying to get everybody to buy into ?

Just keep blaming the defense and giving the offense the pass for two scoreless quarters. Shame the team overcame that and was in line to win the game, but due to one of the worst play calls of all time,,,,,,,,

Yes, one of the worst play calls of all time. Especially since it didn't fool Belichick one bit. He recognized the play within seconds of our offense lining up and had their defense adjusting. He even seemed confused the Hawks were attempting something so dumb. (This was on a recap of the Super Bowl show a couple years back where they had sideline footage of both coaches.)

We should have gone smashmouth. Their D was tired. Marshawn wanted the ball.

Bevell tried to get cute and we lost the game. He's been carrying the baggage of that play call with him ever since.

No, YOU are "Carrying The Baggage"....Set it down and back away...Look, there's no disgrace in admitting that YOU are WRONG.

 

[johnnyfever]

Siouxhawk wrote:

And FTR, his logic hasn't been very substantive, more often than not boiling down to heresay and his own opinion that he passes off as fact. And not to mention repeating the same old message time after time.

Am I the only one that finds this ironic coming from sioux?

It is apparent to most, even Bevell and Pete (in hindsight of course), that the "call" might have been a wrong one. If any chooses to "believe" otherwise, that is there right, but is absolutely not supported by logic or facts.

Butler knew exactly where that ball was going, and plowed through Lockette to get it. If the ball would have been thrown behind, and if lockette would have known to brace himself as Butler was gunning for him, it might have worked out. I don't call those things "poor execution", but rather football. Rarely is this game exact, and you make up for that by designing and calling plays with a higher rate of success in the red zone.

 

[semiahmoo]

[/quote]
No, YOU are "Carrying The Baggage"....Set it down and back away...Look, there's no disgrace in admitting that YOU are WRONG.[/quote]

-------------------------------

 

[randomation]

This maybe...yardage and circumstance are different, but this is the quick on the numbers you want. Either way I think you can only net half a yard on the latter superbowl play at best. They just flat out knew it was coming.

The coaching staff didn't anticipate it because they had their run stopping package in there. But Butler certainly knew it was coming as he gambled and jumped the route.

Not true. Initially they were run stop - then they quickly shifted and that shift was confirmed by Belicihik He instantly recognized what the Hawks were attempting it in real time and communicated as such to his crew. (He was even confused they were trying something so stupid) Perhaps a more capable/experienced QB would have adjusted and did in audible to rock the D back on their heels but RW isn't that QB. He went ahead with a play that was already a clearly bad choice.

Horrible call. Poor execution. We were out-coached big time in those final seconds.

Patriots had their heavy package in and were expecting a run. Perfect call for that situation; just slightly off on the execution.

In what world is throwing directly into the teeth of the D a perfect playcall? The perfect playcall was a pass it was a roll out where Russ either runs it throws it to the corner to matthews or just throws it oob. Plays to Russ's strengths and doesn't throw into a mass of people including one who is very aware of your tendencies.

 

[semiahmoo]

The coaching staff didn't anticipate it because they had their run stopping package in there. But Butler certainly knew it was coming as he gambled and jumped the route.[/quote]

Not true. Initially they were run stop - then they quickly shifted and that shift was confirmed by Belicihik He instantly recognized what the Hawks were attempting it in real time and communicated as such to his crew. (He was even confused they were trying something so stupid) Perhaps a more capable/experienced QB would have adjusted and did in audible to rock the D back on their heels but RW isn't that QB. He went ahead with a play that was already a clearly bad choice.

Horrible call. Poor execution. We were out-coached big time in those final seconds.[/quote]
Patriots had their heavy package in and were expecting a run. Perfect call for that situation; just slightly off on the execution.[/quote]

In what world is throwing directly into the teeth of the D a perfect playcall? The perfect playcall was a pass it was a roll out where Russ either runs it throws it to the corner to matthews or just throws it oob. Plays to Russ's strengths and doesn't throw into a mass of people including one who is very aware of your tendencies.[/quote]

So true. Weird how some feel you have to defend the Hawks even when they mess up.

A real fan praises what they do well, and calls out what they do poorly IMO.

 

[nash72]

But I still believe we score 90 times out of 100 facing that same defensive set with the play. Maybe we'll soon get that chance again.

Lol. We will not see that same play again if we are ever in that situation (well it is Bevell so your probably right). 90 out of 100 times? Ricardo Lockette couldn't catch 90 passes out of 100 if somebody was playing toss with him with a Nerf football yet a play like that. I loved his special teams play and I'm sorry he got hurt, but I'm glad he's gone.

 

[Siouxhawk]

But it really wasn't into the teeth of the defense -- just one guy (Butler) who delivered an amazing play.

 

[nash72]

The fact that the defense was so battered and still kept us in that game is almost miraculous. In all rights, NE should have killed us. You want so much attention directed at the defense, but yet you never bring up the goose eggs the offense contributed in the 1st and 4th. Maybe that passed over you because its so common with this organization.

In all rights NE DID kill us with a 10 point come back...But we needn't redirect our focus on anything but your hate for Bevell. You want us to OMIT facts that don't jive with your close minded opinion....No Way, Shape, or Form am I going to do that.
Is this part of that "Alternate Reality" that Kellyann Conway has been trying to get everybody to buy into ?

Just keep blaming the defense and giving the offense a pass for two scoreless quarters. Heaven forbid the offense and the coordinator answer with some points of their own. Shame the team overcame that and was in line to win the game, but due to one of the worst play calls of all time,,,,,,,,

For crying out loud NASH, it was NOT the "Worst Play Call Of ALL TIME, it was SHITTY EXECUTION.
There is NO getting around the FACTS-------->Defense has it's share of FAULT, and SHARES IN THE BLAME FOR THAT LOSS.

Well, a lot of people disagree with you.

https://www.google.co.in/search?site=&s ... 9QFA#spf=1

 

[semiahmoo]

[/quote]
For crying out loud NASH, it was NOT the "Worst Play Call Of ALL TIME, it was SHITTY EXECUTION.
There is NO getting around the FACTS-------->Defense has it's share of FAULT, and SHARES IN THE BLAME FOR THAT LOSS.[/quote]

Well, a lot of people disagree with you.

https://www.google.co.in/search?site=&s ... 9QFA#spf=1[/quote]

You are decimating the :179422: drinking doubters.

Well done, sir! Keep it up.

 

[Spin Doctor]

If one of 3 things happen, the play goes for a touchdown. The call and the personnel grouping favored us as the Pats had their heavy package in expecting a run. Phenomenal play by Butler and being off by a split second were the perfect storm that denied us.

And Ricardo was No. 3 on the depth chart.

I stand corrected on the depth chart. That being said everything I said is still a valid point. Lockette was one of our worst route runners on the team, and he had questionable hands. Why rely on that receiver to win the game for you?

The whole play was contingent on Kearse rubbing Browner, and picking Butler off. That didn't happen, and Butler had a clear shot at the ball. It was more of a phenomenal play on Browner's part, and phenomenally stupid play on Bevell's part. All Butler needed to do is run forward. Ricardo looked more like the DB on that play than the intended receiver. Even if Ricardo does get there quicker I doubt he catches the ball. Butler had a clear shot at the ball, and Ricardo.

The call did not favor us at all. We ran a play that relied on rubbing Browner, the most physical corner in the game, whom happens to specialize in press coverage. Doing what he did in the Superbowl is exactly how he made his living in the NFL. Worst of all, we ran that play on his side KNOWING exactly what kind of player he is. We attacked the Patriots where they were strong on that play.

Tell me... How does the call favor us Sioux? I've already explained to you the mismatches. Why can't you just call a spade a spade? This is widely regarded as one of the play calls of all time, not just by Hawk fans, but also by the media, and fans alike. Why can you not just concede the fact that this was not a good call on Bevell's part? It clearly was not. I know you like the guy as a coordinator, but this clearly was not a good call, and it should be apparent no matter which side of the Bevell argument you sit on.

 

[brimsalabim]

It was a poor call and poor execution considering the players we had on the field and the players they had on the field but what sealed the deal was giving them plenty of time to read and react to what was coming. Now if that play is truly to blame for of the team histrionics that have occurred since then that is on Pete for allowing it to fester.

 

[Siouxhawk]

I don't agree with you spin doc in saying that we were at a mismatch in that personnel package. On the contrary.

First of all, we caught the Pats in their jumbo package with 3 300-pounders ready to seal the gaps on the line should it be a handoff to Marshawn. We had tried a similar short-yardage play to Lynch in the first half and were stuffed.

Of equal importance was that they had Butler in the game. He was an undrafted rookie. Who know how he's going to respond in a clutch goal line moment? But he wound up making a play for the ages. That wasn't poor anticipation by us; rather an elite play by him.

And I had never heard that Lockette had unreliable hands leading up to that play. I do know he was quite active in that game alone. Sometimes you keep feeding the hot hand. Now some have argued we go with Matthews, who was really hot, there. But I don't think his body type and speed would be conducive for the quick slant. And who's to say he even practiced that play enough for the coaches to feel confident with him inserted there?

And you are right that Kearse missed his assignment in leading Browner into Butler's path. Jermaine is big enough where he should have thwarted Browner's jam enough to have him backpedalling the necessary yard. I think he needed to stay lower; by standing up too soon, he exposed his shoulder pads, allowing Browner a free target to apply a good jam.

An unlike how the play was drawn up, Ricardo was just too hesitant. I think he got out of the stack fine, but he immediately opened up his hips to Russ and telegraphed the play. Had his first couple bursts been with his shoulders and hips perpendicular to the LOS, he would have beat Butler to the ball and I think his momentum would have carried him over the plane before Hightower could react. By starting down the LOS at first, he also would have made Butler run farther to the ball, which would have prevented the interception.

I feel Russ did his job with ball placement had Ricardo executed to gain the additional half a step as I explained above, but had he even delivered the ball a foot to the right, the play may not have resulted in a touchdown, but it certainly wouldn't have been picked.

So there you have it. It was a timing play that the Patriots anticipated and Butler and Browner executed perfectly. But had we did 2 of the things right from Kearse and Lockette's end, we score. Or had Russ thrown it a foot to the right, we at least live for another play.

So I'll always be content with the call. It's the result I could do without.

 

[StoneCold]

People give too much credit to Belichick and too much hate for Pete and Bevell.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

People give too much credit to Belichick and too much hate for Pete and Bevell.

That's the way sports works.

Bottom line, this thread is ridiculous. Is Russell showing discontent because of his O-Coordinator? How bout Avril? Wagner? Kam? Doug?

Nope, cause they're good players and teammates. Just one selfish player is showing discontent, and if he doesn't shape up, he's about to be wearing another team's jersey.

 

[scutterhawk]

No, YOU are "Carrying The Baggage"....Set it down and back away...Look, there's no disgrace in admitting that YOU are WRONG.[/quote]

-------------------------------

[/quote]
Hey, it ain't me that's trying to blow smoke up peoples asses.
You don't want to admit that it was SHITTY EXECUTION on that play.........Here's the FIRST sign that you're floundering......"They KNEW the Play BETTER than WE did"...This is a really silly statement :34853_doh: But that's the words you typed :stirthepot:
Sioux keeps backing up his stance with Facts & Stats, and some of Y'all are trying to prop up your POINT OF VIEW with Smoke & Mirrors, and when that doesn't work?....... :34853_tinfoil: ya just keep on tryin' to blow more smoke.