Interesting stats for fans down on Geno and/or Russ

[keasley45]

There's a reason for that though. If you take in the big picture, he has all these awesome stats that portray him as something he is not. Regardless of all these stats that are thrown around, the guy has never won more than 9 games in a season or a post season win. Supporters will come and put the blame on crappy teams, horrid play calling, or whatever else, but the truth of the matter is that great QB's can elevate their teams and overcome some of those issues (Russ did it for years), but Geno has never been that. He's a system QB that lives and dies by the cohesion or breakdown of the game plans. Some believe he can and will overcome his shortcomings and others don't. He's running out of time.

You are forcing yourself to view Geno through his past performance prior to being in Seattle, which is entirely irrelevant to what and who he is now.

What qb in the league has actually taken a bottom 5 rushing attack, o line and defense and won with it?

Show me that list. Because that seems to now be bar he's measured against.

Russ never had a bottom 5 defense, running game, and offensive line (all at the same time) to 'elevate'. Folks keep pointing to the season he was forced to be the offense because we had no running backs as evidence that he was somehow transcendent, while ignoring thr now obvious fact that he was entirely incapable of reading a defense and thus, reliably sustaining an offense. AND Our defense that year was 14th. You don't think we woukd have won more games over the last 2 years if our defense was 14th, rather than 14 spost worse than that?

Fact is, the closest he ever came to having to pull the load Geno has his first two seasons starting was in 2021, and the reality of that perfprmance has been well documented.

Common sense says that if your qb, in one season can garner MVP attention with bottom 5 support in o line and defense, and a run game that depsite looking electric for parts of the season, finished 18th, hes pretty much carrying the team if they still make the playoffs. And if the name on thr back of that No7 jersey was anything other than Smith (and that Smith that replaced Me3) there wouldnt be the push back.

Last year, there had bottom 5 support in all three of those other areas, AND the Seahawks had the 9th most dropped passes in the league, and he managed to finish with the 12th best QBR and was the obvious reason we were at all effective on offense.

Is he 'elite'. I dont think so. But he's more than good enough and doesnt warrant the obtuse disqualification of what hes actually doing on the merit of what he didnt do 10 years ago.


The dude has done a lot with a little. No reason to think he wont do a lot more when the other aspects of the team improve or are at least competent.

 

[McGruff]

Yep

 

[Maelstrom787]

There's a reason for that though. If you take in the big picture, he has all these awesome stats that portray him as something he is not. Regardless of all these stats that are thrown around, the guy has never won more than 9 games in a season or a post season win. Supporters will come and put the blame on crappy teams, horrid play calling, or whatever else, but the truth of the matter is that great QB's can elevate their teams and overcome some of those issues (Russ did it for years), but Geno has never been that. He's a system QB that lives and dies by the cohesion or breakdown of the game plans. Some believe he can and will overcome his shortcomings and others don't. He's running out of time.

Russ never dealt with a simultaneously awful defense and rushing attack, except for in 2017.

How many games did Russ win in 2017?

Yep. 9.

Good quarterbacks elevate their teams, and neither of Seattle's 2022 or 2023 teams should've hit to .500. Guys like Matthew Stafford and Drew Brees regularly went .500-ish when given a bad supporting cast. They're good quarterbacks.

 

[pittpnthrs]

You are forcing yourself to view Geno through his past performance prior to being in Seattle, which is entirely irrelevant to what and who he is now.

What qb in the league has actually taken a bottom 5 rushing attack, o line and defense and won with it?

Show me that list. Because that seems to now be bar he's measured against.

Russ never had a bottom 5 defense, running game, and offensive line (all at the same time) to 'elevate'. Folks keep pointing to the season he was forced to be the offense because we had no running backs as evidence that he was somehow transcendent, while ignoring thr now obvious fact that he was entirely incapable of reading a defense and thus, reliably sustaining an offense. AND Our defense that year was 14th. You don't think we woukd have won more games over the last 2 years if our defense was 14th, rather than 14 spost worse than that?

Fact is, the closest he ever came to having to pull the load Geno has his first two seasons starting was in 2021, and the reality of that perfprmance has been well documented.

Common sense says that if your qb, in one season can garner MVP attention with bottom 5 support in o line and defense, and a run game that depsite looking electric for parts of the season, finished 18th, hes pretty much carrying the team if they still make the playoffs. And if the name on thr back of that No7 jersey was anything other than Smith (and that Smith that replaced Me3) there wouldnt be the push back.

Last year, there had bottom 5 support in all three of those other areas, AND the Seahawks had the 9th most dropped passes in the league, and he managed to finish with the 12th best QBR and was the obvious reason we were at all effective on offense.

Is he 'elite'. I dont think so. But he's more than good enough and doesnt warrant the obtuse disqualification of what hes actually doing on the merit of what he didnt do 10 years ago.


The dude has done a lot with a little. No reason to think he wont do a lot more when the other aspects of the team improve or are at least competent.

I'm not looking at him prior to Seattle. Thats included also. 9-8 both seasons. Average as he has always been. What are the excuses going to be for the next two or so years when he's once again average? New coaching staff, Grubb doesn't know what he's doing, Oline and defense still not in place. etc,,,? The excuses need to stop. Seattle is loaded with offensive talent as evident by his stats that everyone likes to harp about, so the crying game about how he has had so little to work with is tiresome. The Jets were middle of the road in almost every category while he was there and the results were average as usual. The MVP attention is hysterical also. Yeah he played out of his mind for a half a season. Congratulations. How much MVP attention did he recieve in the second half when he slid back into typical Geno mode?

I realize he's the QB of everybodys favorite team here, but sometimes you just have to accept a player for who he is. He's an average QB that garners average results. I don't see that ever changing. Prove me wrong Geno.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Russ never dealt with a simultaneously awful defense and rushing attack, except for in 2017.

How many games did Russ win in 2017?

Yep. 9.

Good quarterbacks elevate their teams, and neither of Seattle's 2022 or 2023 teams should've hit to .500. Guys like Matthew Stafford and Drew Brees regularly went .500-ish when given a bad supporting cast. They're good quarterbacks.

He still led the league in TD passes that year. Geno wouldn't have won 9 games that season on the same team.

 

[McGruff]

Well yeah. If the defense once again sucks and the team fails to commit to a running game and as a result the team is average, those would be legitimately good excuses.

Isn’t that just logical?

 

[Chukarhawk]

accuracy and athleticism aren't Geno's issues. Dude might throw the prettiest ball in the league.

 

[The Whale]

I'm shocked at the level of homer I'm reading in these threads. Pure delusion about Geno, from so many. He is a solid and I mean solid back up. He is a great story. What he isn't? A game changing player that makes others around him better. He still makes rookie mistakes after so many years. We won multiple games last year despite him. Honestly I will be shocked and disappointed if Howell isn't starting by week 5.

 

[Ozzy]

Geno's accuracy has never been the main issue. It's his decision making, which the poor 3rd down conversion rate attests to. If accuracy were the main metric to judge qb's, he wouldn't go entire halves without scoring on a regular basis.

And he has admitted this as well. Last year there was a game where he had a reciever open in the end zone twice in the same drive and just didn't process it fast enough or pull the trigger. He needs to be a little better in the red zone as does the running game, the play calling, the line etc. all of them. Geno to my eyes did seem to take fewer chances in the red zone which cost him at times. This is probably the case for a lot of guys though because a turnover there is magnified.

 

[Ozzy]

To some on dot net, Geno Smith was, is, and will always be a bottom 1/3 QB in the league no matter what.

I don't think many hold that view though. I think you mostly have two camps. Some who think Geno is in that 12-20 range and then some who think he's borderline top 5-8. I tend to think he's in the 12-20 range but can play better for stretches of time and I'm hoping Grubb and Geno marriage can bring back that magical first half of his first season as the starter.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

accuracy and athleticism aren't Geno's issues. Dude might throw the prettiest ball in the league.

True. But he also threw a lot of balls right to defenders who have feet for hands.

(it's a joke, breathe in)

Geno is around 15-18. Bottom 1/3, nah. I'm more concerned about his ability to finish big games.

 

[SeaWolv]

I don't think many hold that view though. I think you mostly have two camps. Some who think Geno is in that 12-20 range and then some who think he's borderline top 5-8. I tend to think he's in the 12-20 range but can play better for stretches of time and I'm hoping Grubb and Geno marriage can bring back that magical first half of his first season as the starter.

The 5-8 range puts him too near elite territory and I don't think there's enough evidence to support that. I tend to think the evidence shows he's somewhere near the 10-12 range which would put him solidly above average and below elite.

 

[McGruff]

I think there are very few who consider him ten five. And very few who consider him a “good backup” and most put him in the middle somewhere.

But that makes for bad arguments, so instead let’s just speak in extremes.

 

[The Whale]

I think there are very few who consider him ten five. And very few who consider him a “good backup” and most put him in the middle somewhere.

But that makes for bad arguments, so instead let’s just speak in extremes.

He is a career back up who had one surprise good season. It's not an extreme it's just living in reality.

 

[keasley45]

I'm not looking at him prior to Seattle. Thats included also. 9-8 both seasons. Average as he has always been. What are the excuses going to be for the next two or so years when he's once again average? New coaching staff, Grubb doesn't know what he's doing, Oline and defense still not in place. etc,,,? The excuses need to stop. Seattle is loaded with offensive talent as evident by his stats that everyone likes to harp about, so the crying game about how he has had so little to work with is tiresome. The Jets were middle of the road in almost every category while he was there and the results were average as usual. The MVP attention is hysterical also. Yeah he played out of his mind for a half a season. Congratulations. How much MVP attention did he recieve in the second half when he slid back into typical Geno mode?

I realize he's the QB of everybodys favorite team here, but sometimes you just have to accept a player for who he is. He's an average QB that garners average results. I don't see that ever changing. Prove me wrong Geno.

In what universe is your running game being poor, your o line being poor (depsite having a qb who gets rid of the ball quickly) and your defense being poor, an 'excuse' for being 9-8? And the 'poor' label isn't opinion, it's fact, divorced and separate from anything Geno has done.

Can you answer that please.

I'd get it if Geno was a 50% passer, bottom half of the league in qb metrics. But he isn't.

He's not the one who needs an excuse. He's done his part. You don't need an 'excuse'if you're a 65% passer, let alone a 69% one. You don't need an excuse when you're a top 10 passer one year, and top 12- 13 the next, despite the undeniably limiting factors the qb has had to deal with.

And you keep bringing Russ into the equation. Like @Maelstrom787, Russ never had to deal with a team that outright failed around him. When the rbs were poor (one year), the defense was respectable. When the defense was struggling, the RBs were towing their share of the load. And for the champisonship years, he had a solid oline, a HOF defense, and HOF backfield. Yet, because he made every play look like some heroic feat, he gets a pass for not doing at all what you criticize Geno for not being able to do on his own(get us over the hump)?

Credit to Russ for the incredible player he was and what he was able to accomplish over his career. But c'mon.

And criticizing Geno for being a system qb in the pajorative? Matt Stafford is also a 'system' qb who didn't win much until the system he was in functioned. Goff? System and culture made him what he is. Mael already mentioned Brees. Before that, Rich Gannon. Jeff Hoestetler, Jeff Garcia, Matt Hasselbeck, the list is deep of good to great to SB winning QBs who were 'system' guys. There are many many others.

You seem to look at that as a negative when for years we literally had no system with Russ... nothing to accurately measure or adjust from. Nothing to build on year over year, let alone game to game. No way to evaluate effectiveness. Because the only system that was run was 'run around and i will buy time and find you'. We literally incorporate sandlot play into our practices. You think we did that because we knew the offense was just a failure and that we wanted to give Russ a chance to practice saving the day? We made it part of the flow of planning because it was what Russ would invariably do. And it had success, but was mired with the same flaws that got him canned in Denver. It wasn't sustainable. It missed as often as it hit, and it pretty much scrapped anything resembling a gameplan, rendering the OC borderline useless in in game adjustments, and neutering the effectiveness of his teammates when they actually did what was called for.

Now we have a guy who can actually run an offense at a high level, despite the obvious and undeniable failure of major pieces around him, and because he can't get the group past 9 wins, despite him being pretty good regardless, it's his failure?

Got it.

 

[JPatera76]

He is a career back up who had one surprise good season. It's not an extreme it's just living in reality.

That’s your opinion, not reality, not “fact”. Just an opinion.

 

[knownone]

I'd be shocked if anyone puts Geno in the 5-8 range. That seems to be a misconception derived from people who take stats as player rankings. You'll see that in this thread. The OP posts a metric where Geno ranks well, and there is a backlash.

The real dichotomy is between people who think Geno is a competent, above-average quarterback and people who don't.

 

[pittpnthrs]

In what universe is your running game being poor, your o line being poor (depsite having a qb who gets rid of the ball quickly) and your defense being poor, an 'excuse' for being 9-8? And the 'poor' label isn't opinion, it's fact, divorced and separate from anything Geno has done.

Can you answer that please.

I'd get it if Geno was a 50% passer, bottom half of the league in qb metrics. But he isn't.

He's not the one who needs an excuse. He's done his part. You don't need an 'excuse'if you're a 65% passer, let alone a 69% one. You don't need an excuse when you're a top 10 passer one year, and top 12- 13 the next, despite the undeniably limiting factors the qb has had to deal with.

And you keep bringing Russ into the equation. Like @Maelstrom787, Russ never had to deal with a team that outright failed around him. When the rbs were poor (one year), the defense was respectable. When the defense was struggling, the RBs were towing their share of the load. And for the champisonship years, he had a solid oline, a HOF defense, and HOF backfield. Yet, because he made every play look like some heroic feat, he gets a pass for not doing at all what you criticize Geno for not being able to do on his own(get us over the hump)?

Credit to Russ for the incredible player he was and what he was able to accomplish over his career. But c'mon.

And criticizing Geno for being a system qb in the pajorative? Matt Stafford is also a 'system' qb who didn't win much until the system he was in functioned. Goff? System and culture made him what he is. Mael already mentioned Brees. Before that, Rich Gannon. Jeff Hoestetler, Jeff Garcia, Matt Hasselbeck, the list is deep of good to great to SB winning QBs who were 'system' guys. There are many many others.

You seem to look at that as a negative when for years we literally had no system with Russ... nothing to accurately measure or adjust from. Nothing to build on year over year, let alone game to game. No way to evaluate effectiveness. Because the only system that was run was 'run around and i will buy time and find you'. We literally incorporate sandlot play into our practices. You think we did that because we knew the offense was just a failure and that we wanted to give Russ a chance to practice saving the day? We made it part of the flow of planning because it was what Russ would invariably do. And it had success, but was mired with the same flaws that got him canned in Denver. It wasn't sustainable. It missed as often as it hit, and it pretty much scrapped anything resembling a gameplan, rendering the OC borderline useless in in game adjustments, and neutering the effectiveness of his teammates when they actually did what was called for.

Now we have a guy who can actually run an offense at a high level, despite the obvious and undeniable failure of major pieces around him, and because he can't get the group past 9 wins, despite him being pretty good regardless, it's his failure?

Got it.

By your post, it's a wonder Smith ever sat the bench in his entire career. "Now we have a guy who can actually run an offense at a high level"? Need I remind you that he was a backup to Wilson. There's a good reason for that. He's also horrid in the red zone.

When I speak of QB's being system QB's, i'm speaking of QB's that can't go off script. Smith is one of those. Gannon, Hoss, and Hasselback could. They could make things happen when things broke down because they had football minds and good intuition. I don't see that with Smith. It's usually panic and errant throws. He doesn't have the "it" factor.

When he fails to win in the post season or take a team any higher than around the .500 mark, we'll revisit this thread.

 

[The Whale]

That’s your opinion, not reality, not “fact”. Just an opinion.

Uh... he has started 66 of 163 career games. And he has a losing record in those games started. He has had a singular above average season. Those are facts and absolutely not my opinion. Don't get me wrong. I like the guy. I think he is good to be here but to think he is our answer is just silly. Now, IMO we are at best a Wildcard team for the next few seasons with him as the starter.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

By your post, it's a wonder Smith ever sat the bench in his entire career. "Now we have a guy who can actually run an offense at a high level"? Need I remind you that he was a backup to Wilson. There's a good reason for that. He's also horrid in the red zone.

When I speak of QB's being system QB's, i'm speaking of QB's that can't go off script. Smith is one of those. Gannon, Hoss, and Hasselback could. They could make things happen when things broke down because they had football minds and good intuition. I don't see that with Smith. It's usually panic and errant throws. He doesn't have the "it" factor.

When he fails to win in the post season or take a team any higher than around the .500 mark, we'll revisit this thread.

Good points. I doubt I'm the only one who gets VERY nervous when they are in the Red Zone.