Interesting stats for fans down on Geno and/or Russ

WarHawks

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Wilson was not elite, he was a Niche QB that was figured out, but helped bring us a Super Bowl with a great supporting cast.

I think of him as Cordell Stewart that could actually pass well. It just took a while for someone else to give that kind of QB a chance again and it was us, Wilson was just way more accurate and had a lot better touch and escape ability.

Lamar Jackson is a better Russell Wilson and a bit taller :)
Wilson was not elite? Lol. Wow.
 

WarHawks

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QB salaries are another complication to this discussion. I'm down on Howell compared to most here, but I'd much rather the team had his contract than Jalen Hurts's contract. Similarly, while Jackson is a top 5 QB I'd have to think before taking him on his current deal.


That's unusually extreme hyperbole even for this message board.

It is reasonable to suggest Geno is somewhere in the 2nd quartile of starting QBs based on his play over the last two seasons. Of course you can disagree with that, but here's a thought experiment for you to consider.

Make a list of the current NFL QBs who are you are sure will outperform Geno in week 1. If your list has at least 10 names on it, and everybody on your list plays at least as well as Geno does in week 1, then you win. If you don't have 10 names, or somebody on your list is clearly outplayed by Geno in week 1, then you agree it's plausible that Geno is a top 10 QB in the short term.
It's not how you start, it's how you finish.
 

WarHawks

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Good post.

No problem, everyone has their own thoughts on these aspects of the team. You made your point without leaving a trail of blood. A skill.

Regarding Mr Geno Smith, I would like to see him with a top ten team around him. I do agree in that there are only a few top notch (too short) QBs and then a pool of decent to average Joe's.
If a qb has to have to have a top ten team around to excel, then that just reinforces the argument that he's not a great qb. Great qb's elevate their team, not the other way around. That's what makes them great.
 

chris98251

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You don’t win that many games have that much success and not be elite. A lot of QB’s have three and outs. I watched all the games too and he was a flat out stud. So I’ll agree to disagree.
Hmmm Dilfer was told not to lose games, I know you want to put their Super Bowl win on his shoulders to support your infatuation with Wilson, but they had this defense that kind of dominated for years and pretty much set the tone for destruction with a few Hall of Famers on it, but don't give them credit anymore then the LOB carried Wilson here with Lynch on offense. Look at the point differential in their wins as well, they were very low in offensive points scored versus opponents' points.

Alos if Dilfer was so fantastic I wonder why they moved on from him?
 

chris98251

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You don’t win that many games have that much success and not be elite. A lot of QB’s have three and outs. I watched all the games too and he was a flat out stud. So I’ll agree to disagree.
Yes, all QB's have three and outs, I am saying Wilson had a lot more then league average for what you're calling an Elite QB. A majority of this board would go bat shit crazy every game between the 8 minute mark of the first quarter to the 8 minute mark of the 4th Quarter for all the three and outs.

Really amazing that he usually started games moving the ball and many times scoring early and then playing hero ball the last half of the 4th quarter.
 

chris98251

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Wilson was not elite? Lol. Wow.
No he wasn't and isn't, Elite QB's use the whole field, can read a defense, can find receivers within the offense the way it is designed. Tell me he could do all that game to game. He had a pretty deep ball and was good at placement down field, the ugliest plays he tried were screen passes and Bubble screens, receivers and Running backs got blown up waiting for the ball most times.
 

knownone

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If a qb has to have to have a top ten team around to excel, then that just reinforces the argument that he's not a great qb. Great qb's elevate their team, not the other way around. That's what makes them great.
Wilson was not elite? Lol. Wow.
I'm confused. Wilson only has one playoff win without a top-3 defense, and (as Fade liked to say) that was against a team without its starting quarterback. So, was Wilson not elite (or great, for that matter), or is your criterion flawed?
 

keasley45

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I'm confused. Wilson only has one playoff win without a top-3 defense, and (as Fade liked to say) that was against a team without its starting quarterback. So, was Wilson not elite (or great, for that matter), or is your criterion flawed?
This x 1000. The argument is that Geno isnt great because he hasnt elevated the team.

Yet Russ had a FAR better suppotting cast in terms of run game support and an average defense between 16 and 19. And what did he do with it?

If elite QBs elevate even horrible teams to supposed greatness, then by that measure, Russ wasnt elite.

And i'm just using the Geno detractor's arguments.

I perosnally think the dude had elite traits that often resulted in elite plays and remarkable moments. But he never excelled without either the defense or a running game propping up some level of perfromance.

Geno had had mone of that and made the playoffs one year and was the only reason we were in the convo the next.

In what years did Russ have

Rushing game - 18th
Oline 27th
Defense - 28th

Or

Rushing game - 28th
Oline 28th
Defense 30th

And last year, our WRs were 9th worst in drops.

Answer? He never did. Not as bad as the above across all three areas.

We made the playoffs with that garbage. Why? If you cant reason that some other aspect of the team had to be doing a pretty damn good job to not have a losing season with that kind of performance, i dont know what to tell you.

You dont get to a winning record, let alone the playoffs with that level of poor play if your qb is JAG. It simply defies any stream of logic and common sense. Wth? Did teams just give us points out of sympathy? No.

Geno wasnt Rogers Brees or Brady. But the MFer balled out in a few games and played solid to better than solid ball in most others.
 
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Ozzy

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I'm confused. Wilson only has one playoff win without a top-3 defense, and (as Fade liked to say) that was against a team without its starting quarterback. So, was Wilson not elite (or great, for that matter), or is your criterion flawed?
You’re stacking the deck to fit your narrative. So you’re now saying Wilson wasn’t even great in his prime? Seriously?

What’s even stranger to me is the people arguing Wilson was just average are the same people trying to convince everyone Geno is great.
 

WarHawks

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This x 1000. The argument is that Geno isnt great because he hasnt elevated the team.

Yet Russ had a FAR better suppotting cast in terms of run game support and an average defense between 16 and 19. And what did he do with it?

If elite QBs elevate even horrible teams to supposed greatness, then by that measure, Russ wasnt elite.

And i'm just using the Geno detractor's arguments.

I perosnally think the dude had elite traits that often resulted in elite plays and remarkable moments. But he never excelled without either the defense or a running game propping up some level of perfromance.

Geno had had mone of that and made the playoffs one year and was the only reason we were in the convo the next.

In what years did Russ have

Rushing game - 18th
Oline 27th
Defense - 28th

Or

Rushing game - 28th
Oline 28th
Defense 30th

And last year, our WRs were 9th worst in drops.

Answer? He never did. Not as bad as the above across all three areas.

We made the playoffs with that garbage.

Geno wasnt Rogers Brees or Brady. But the MFer balled out in a few games and played solid to better than solid ball in most others.
Get back to me when he wins a playoff game and doesn't disappear for entire halves of games.
 

pittpnthrs

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LOL. The TEAM wins and losses. And players play bad during wins, and good during losses. Wilson played bad during that stretch. Again, look it up, read the articles. Watch the games.

As far as jilted lover, that ain’t me.

I just looked up the box scores of the last 6 games of 2020. Wilson had two bad games (Giants and Washington) during that stretch and they won one of those games. I'm not sure that constitutes as the wheels falling off.
 

pittpnthrs

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The irony is I think we have had a top ten team.

We just had bottom 5 coaching (coordinators specifically).

In fairness to Geno, the defense has just been a atrocious the last two years. So no, I don't believe they were a top ten team. The talent in the trenches just wasn't there.
 

RiverDog

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What’s even stranger to me is the people arguing Wilson was just average are the same people trying to convince everyone Geno is great.
You're over dramatizing the views that are in conflict with yours. Reading a lot of the comments in here that reflect my POV and speaking for myself, the majority are not saying that Russell is/was "average." The argument stems over the use of the term "elite."

Russell was a very good quarterback, at least up until the past couple of years, well above average, the best QB our franchise has ever had IMO. Those are pretty heady words. I don't say that about "average" players. But "elite" takes the conversation to a completely different level. Walter Jones was an "elite" left tackle. It means HOF worthy, the very top of your class. Russell doesn't belong in that conversation.
 

Ozzy

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You're over dramatizing the views that are in conflict with yours. Reading a lot of the comments in here that reflect my POV and speaking for myself, the majority are not saying that Russell is/was "average." The argument stems over the use of the term "elite."

Russell was a very good quarterback, at least up until the past couple of years, well above average, the best QB our franchise has ever had IMO. Those are pretty heady words. I don't say that about "average" players. But "elite" takes the conversation to a completely different level. Walter Jones was an "elite" left tackle. It means HOF worthy, the very top of your class. Russell doesn't belong in that conversation.
I’m not though. People have laughed at the notion that he was even great yet alone elite. Not you but others. I would also argue that even if you disagree, Russ belongs in the conversation. Statistically, wins/losses, toughness, playoff success, leadership etc. I think the vast majority of people around the league and in other cities would absolutely call him great and elite, it feels like it’s only scorned fans who claim otherwise. I mean to say he wasn’t even great? Come on that’s ridiculous.

Again while I disagree with your view I think it’s reasonable. Not everyone in here holds your view though on the negative Wilson side
 

pittpnthrs

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Really amazing that he usually started games moving the ball and many times scoring early and then playing hero ball the last half of the 4th quarter.

How much of that was game planning and Pete? Carroll's mantra was "You can't win the game in the first quarter". And then there was Lynch's famous quote - "Can we score again?". I don't think the blame goes to Russ on this account.
 

pittpnthrs

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I'm confused. Wilson only has one playoff win without a top-3 defense, and (as Fade liked to say) that was against a team without its starting quarterback. So, was Wilson not elite (or great, for that matter), or is your criterion flawed?

No QB that ever played could overcome some of those game plans though, so I wouldn't throw that at Wilsons feet.
 

McGruff

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I just looked up the box scores of the last 6 games of 2020. Wilson had two bad games (Giants and Washington) during that stretch and they won one of those games. I'm not sure that constitutes as the wheels falling off.
Do you not remember sitting through those games? Wilson was lost.

Stats don’t often tell the story.
 

pittpnthrs

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I perosnally think the dude had elite traits that often resulted in elite plays and remarkable moments. But he never excelled without either the defense or a running game propping up some level of perfromance.

He had a year where he accounted for every single TD in the entire season except for one. That's not excelling?
 

pittpnthrs

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Do you not remember sitting through those games? Wilson was lost.

Stats don’t often tell the story.

He was efficient and not his usual explosive play self if that's what your getting at. Lost isn't the word.
 

SoulfishHawk

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I will need to correct you. Why do posters here keep saying 2020 was a "wheels fell off" season for Wilson? It's just plain wrong. Please stop it, for your own credibility sake.

They had a 12-4 W/L season, man.

You know which players QB'd their team to 12 wins or better last year?
L. Jackson, Prescott, Goff and Brock Purdy . Not Mahomes, not Allen.
I guess these guys all had wheels fall off seasons. SMH
Because it fits their narrative that he did nothing. Again, hilarious.
 
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