"If Michael Bennett wants to sit for anthem..."

[replicant]

There are other venues for it. Media, internet, political groups etc. Take your social ignorance and indignation elsewhere. This is exactly why many who watch the sport are pissed, it doesn't belong there.

If I go into a restaurant, I have no interest in what the servers political views on DACA are. Even if I agreed with them, it is still inappropriate.

This virtue signaling is obnoxious and disgusting.

And what's sad is that the NFL could easily put an end to it. If a group of people made such a political statement at my workplace, they would all be fired.

Jones is putting his foot down, or so he says:


Jerry Jones: Players who disrespect flag won't play

"If there's anything that is disrespectful to the flag, then we will not play," Jones said. "You understand? If we are disrespecting the flag, then we won't play. Period."

Jones added: "We're going to respect the flag. And I won't create the perception of -- and we have, I'm not aware, and wouldn't know what you're talking about, I'm not aware of that. But if you say you saw it, then you saw it. But we as a team are very much on the page together. We've made our expression that we're together. I'm very supportive of the team, but under no circumstances, under no circumstances will the Dallas Cowboys, I don't care what happens. Under no circumstances will we as an organization, or as coaches and players, not support and stand and recognize and honor the flag."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... -wont-play

 

[Mindsink]

There are other venues for it. Media, internet, political groups etc. Take your social ignorance and indignation elsewhere. This is exactly why many who watch the sport are pissed, it doesn't belong there.

If I go into a restaurant, I have no interest in what the servers political views on DACA are. Even if I agreed with them, it is still inappropriate.

This virtue signaling is obnoxious and disgusting.

And what's sad is that the NFL could easily put an end to it. If a group of people made such a political statement at my workplace, they would all be fired.

Jones is putting his foot down, or so he says:


Jerry Jones: Players who disrespect flag won't play

"If there's anything that is disrespectful to the flag, then we will not play," Jones said. "You understand? If we are disrespecting the flag, then we won't play. Period."

Jones added: "We're going to respect the flag. And I won't create the perception of -- and we have, I'm not aware, and wouldn't know what you're talking about, I'm not aware of that. But if you say you saw it, then you saw it. But we as a team are very much on the page together. We've made our expression that we're together. I'm very supportive of the team, but under no circumstances, under no circumstances will the Dallas Cowboys, I don't care what happens. Under no circumstances will we as an organization, or as coaches and players, not support and stand and recognize and honor the flag."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... -wont-play

Yup. This was his stance the entire time. Nothing but respect. It's a sad time in America when honoring the national anthem becomes a political issue.

 

[TestMo1337]

There are other venues for it. Media, internet, political groups etc. Take your social ignorance and indignation elsewhere. This is exactly why many who watch the sport are pissed, it doesn't belong there.

If I go into a restaurant, I have no interest in what the servers political views on DACA are. Even if I agreed with them, it is still inappropriate.

This virtue signaling is obnoxious and disgusting.

And what's sad is that the NFL could easily put an end to it. If a group of people made such a political statement at my workplace, they would all be fired.

No. If your workplace is like the 99.99% of places that don't play the anthem before you start work, you won't get fired.

I could turn on a YouTube video of someone singing the anthem and then take a knee and no one would stand. Everyone would just keep working.

You can't equate what the players are doing to every-day people's jobs. They don't equate.

 

[kidhawk]

There are other venues for it. Media, internet, political groups etc. Take your social ignorance and indignation elsewhere. This is exactly why many who watch the sport are pissed, it doesn't belong there.

If I go into a restaurant, I have no interest in what the servers political views on DACA are. Even if I agreed with them, it is still inappropriate.

This virtue signaling is obnoxious and disgusting.

And what's sad is that the NFL could easily put an end to it. If a group of people made such a political statement at my workplace, they would all be fired.

No. If your workplace is like the 99.99% of places that don't play the anthem before you start work, you won't get fired.

I could turn on a YouTube video of someone singing the anthem and then take a knee and no one would stand. Everyone would just keep working.

You can't equate what the players are doing to every-day people's jobs. They don't equate.

It really does equate easily enough. They are being paid by an organization to do a job. If said organization decides something is mandatory, then they can punish them by any means allowed by law (or labor agreement). In the case of the NFL (specifically our Seahawks), it's plain to see that the organization doesn't have an issue with it, thus no punishment.

To play devil's advocate here...the people who are complaining loudly, have as much right to ask for the organization to change that policy just as much as the players have the right to kneel when the organization hasn't mandated that it stop. Both sides can protest how they see fit. The players may kneel, and the people complaining may boycott teams (or the NFL) or whatever else makes them feel better about their stance.

 

[Mindsink]

And what's sad is that the NFL could easily put an end to it. If a group of people made such a political statement at my workplace, they would all be fired.

No. If your workplace is like the 99.99% of places that don't play the anthem before you start work, you won't get fired.

I could turn on a YouTube video of someone singing the anthem and then take a knee and no one would stand. Everyone would just keep working.

You can't equate what the players are doing to every-day people's jobs. They don't equate.

I'm not referring specifically to the national anthem at your cubicle job, which is absurd, since like you said, they don't play the national anthem before the start of the work day.

You've misinterpreted my point. I'm saying that if someone made such a vocal and highly visible political stance in their workplace, they would probably be fired, especially one that is made through a statement of disrespect.

Here's an example: Let's say that right before your company's Christmas break, while everyone's wishing each other a happy holiday weekend, you sent out an e-mail to everyone espousing your views regarding "the evils of Christianity".

That has high-visibility. It's a show of disrespect. It's tasteless, and will get a lot of people upset. Whether you have a valid point or not is immaterial. It's bad optics, bad timing, and classless. And your message will likely get dismissed, despite your insistence that your e-mail rant was not meant to be disrespectful to "good" Christians.

That's basically what this whole anthem kneeling thing is.

 

[Osprey]

The snake is eating itself on this one:
https://twitter.com/jemelehill?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

[tweet]https://twitter.com/jemelehill/status/917219440487432192[/tweet]

How do you work for ESPN which lives off the NFL and then call for a boycott of one of its teams!?


Although it looks like she's walking it back already:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/jemelehill/status/917421938879889408[/tweet]

 

[Mindsink]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/jemelehill/status/917421938879889408[/tweet]

Telling Americans to stand up for the country's anthem is now an "unfair burden". What world do we live in?

 

[KitsapGuy]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KIRO7Seattle/status/917476419835518976[/tweet]

http://www.kiro7.com/news/breaking-news ... /622089479

 

[Osprey]

Telling Americans to stand up for the country's anthem is now an "unfair burden". What world do we live in?

Hard to follow a coherent narrative on Twitter, but I assume she's referring to this:
[tweet]https://twitter.com/jemelehill/status/917205964754894848[/tweet]
[tweet]https://twitter.com/jemelehill/status/917204790882349056[/tweet]

 

[Osprey]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KIRO7Seattle/status/917476419835518976[/tweet]

http://www.kiro7.com/news/breaking-news ... /622089479

A little off topic, but gotta love the photo they chose. :shock:

 

[StoneCold]

We live in a world where even a jerk like Jerry Jones, who poses for pictures with strippers and hires felons and tells hard working Americans they must worship the flag the same way he does, can say whatever he wants without fear of reprisal from the government, but will have to own the consequences of his speech and actions. Just as the players do.

I feel the least American thing going on in this is telling others to display their patriotism in a way that they say is acceptable. To thine own self be true.

And let the chips fall where they may.

For me an interesting outcome to this is if Dak and Elliot choose to kneel. Is Jerry really going to fire them?

 

[Mindsink]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KIRO7Seattle/status/917476419835518976[/tweet]

http://www.kiro7.com/news/breaking-news ... /622089479

Glorious! This just made my day. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Osprey]

We live in a world where even a jerk like Jerry Jones, who poses for pictures with strippers and hires felons and tells hard working Americans they must worship the flag the same way he does, can say whatever he wants without fear of reprisal from the government, but will have to own the consequences of his speech and actions. Just as the players do.

I feel the least American thing going on in this is telling others to display their patriotism in a way that they say is acceptable. To thine own self be true.

And let the chips fall where they may.

For me an interesting outcome to this is if Dak and Elliot choose to kneel. Is Jerry really going to fire them?

Haven't seen enough detail, but I'm betting Jones will take the Miami compromise of allowing players to stay in the locker room during the anthem.

Not a fan of him as a person either, however, he's a shrewd business man. I doubt he took this public stance without already knowing exactly how his players will react. I'll be surprised if he's forced to bench anyone.

 

[Mindsink]

We live in a world where even a jerk like Jerry Jones, who poses for pictures with strippers and hires felons and tells hard working Americans they must worship the flag the same way he does, can say whatever he wants without fear of reprisal from the government, but will have to own the consequences of his speech and actions. Just as the players do.

I feel the least American thing going on in this is telling others to display their patriotism in a way that they say is acceptable. To thine own self be true.

It's less about displaying patriotism, and more about showing respect

And I would put "showing disrespect for your country and flag" up near the top on the list of "un-American things".

 

[StoneCold]

We live in a world where even a jerk like Jerry Jones, who poses for pictures with strippers and hires felons and tells hard working Americans they must worship the flag the same way he does, can say whatever he wants without fear of reprisal from the government, but will have to own the consequences of his speech and actions. Just as the players do.

I feel the least American thing going on in this is telling others to display their patriotism in a way that they say is acceptable. To thine own self be true.

It's less about displaying patriotism, and more about showing respect

And I would put "showing disrespect for your country and flag" up near the top on the list of "un-American things".

What if you felt what your country was doing was wrong?

EDIT to Add: Not everyone sees it as disrespectful. Many people, including vets, have stated they don't see it as disrespect, so that angle is really about an opinion not a fact.

 

[kidhawk]

We live in a world where even a jerk like Jerry Jones, who poses for pictures with strippers and hires felons and tells hard working Americans they must worship the flag the same way he does, can say whatever he wants without fear of reprisal from the government, but will have to own the consequences of his speech and actions. Just as the players do.

I feel the least American thing going on in this is telling others to display their patriotism in a way that they say is acceptable. To thine own self be true.

It's less about displaying patriotism, and more about showing respect

And I would put "showing disrespect for your country and flag" up near the top on the list of "un-American things".

What if you felt what your country was doing was wrong?

EDIT to Add: Not everyone sees it as disrespectful. Many people, including vets, have stated they don't see it as disrespect, so that angle is really about an opinion not a fact.

Actually, it's a fact that many people have the opinion that is' disrespectful. It's also a fact that many people understand why it's being done. The idea that opinions aren'tfacts is absolutely true, but facts can be extrapolated from opinions.

Honestly, there's so much hypocrisy on both sides of this debate that it is really off putting altogether.

 

[TestMo1337]

Here's an example: Let's say that right before your company's Christmas break, while everyone's wishing each other a happy holiday weekend, you sent out an e-mail to everyone espousing your views regarding "the evils of Christianity".

That has high-visibility. It's a show of disrespect. It's tasteless, and will get a lot of people upset. Whether you have a valid point or not is immaterial. It's bad optics, bad timing, and classless. And your message will likely get dismissed, despite your insistence that your e-mail rant was not meant to be disrespectful to "good" Christians.

That's basically what this whole anthem kneeling thing is.

No. That's actually no how most companies work. There is no "Christmas Break" for most major business like the NFL. Not sure many companies actually give "breaks" like that.

Sending an e-mail is forcing your stance into everyone's inbox. No one protesting during the anthem is forcing the cameras on them. They know the American public & American media loves a spectacle and this is such a spectacle.

The better comparison would be wearing colors of a non-Seahawks team on Blue Friday in downtown Seattle. Someone wearing non-Seahawks colors/gear attracts more attention than someone wearing their normal work wear. Protests are meant to spark attention from the majority.

Pence just protested the NFL. Some protests are better than other but they are meant to spark attention. It also means that if you protest, you are willing to take the hit if it hurts you.

This is why I disagree with the idea that the NFL's players protest during the anthem is equatable in anyway to what a normal every day person can comprehend; we do not have the same opportunities and trying to find an apt comparison just dilutes that challenges they are facing. Bennett knows what he is risking.

Someone writing an e-mail saying "the evils of Christianity." The same happened to the Google Engineer and his manifesto. You risk things when you speak out. That is the point and if people are not comfortable with that idea of a protest then you better hope that nothing gets challenged.

 

[Mindsink]

We live in a world where even a jerk like Jerry Jones, who poses for pictures with strippers and hires felons and tells hard working Americans they must worship the flag the same way he does, can say whatever he wants without fear of reprisal from the government, but will have to own the consequences of his speech and actions. Just as the players do.

I feel the least American thing going on in this is telling others to display their patriotism in a way that they say is acceptable. To thine own self be true.

It's less about displaying patriotism, and more about showing respect

And I would put "showing disrespect for your country and flag" up near the top on the list of "un-American things".

What if you felt what your country was doing was wrong?

EDIT to Add: Not everyone sees it as disrespectful. Many people, including vets, have stated they don't see it as disrespect, so that angle is really about an opinion not a fact.

Except the country isn't "doing" anything. What you think they're "doing" is merely perception. Last I checked, the country (i.e. our governing bodies) enacted laws to ensure equal rights for all. The laws are there. For example, workplace discrimination is illegal.

So for you to say the country is doing something wrong is...well...wrong.

No, not everyone sees it as disrespectful. But most do. That's like me flipping you the bird and saying that I'm just stretching out my middle finger as a sign of unity.

 

[Mindsink]

No. That's actually no how most companies work. There is no "Christmas Break" for most major business like the NFL. Not sure many companies actually give "breaks" like that.

Not sure where you work, but I've never worked at a company that doesn't get Christmas off. And regardless, it's irrelevant to the point I'm trying to make.

Sending an e-mail is forcing your stance into everyone's inbox. No one protesting during the anthem is forcing the cameras on them. They know the American public & American media loves a spectacle and this is such a spectacle.

And protesting the national anthem and gaining media attention is forcing your protest onto everyone who is at the stadium, is tuned into the game, or watches the tired coverage of those protests on the news.

At least with an e-mail, I can choose whether to read it or not, and just delete it and likely never hear about it over and over again, unlike these anthem protests, which I have to see and hear constantly when I turn on a game, or listen to sports talk, etc.

The better comparison would be wearing colors of a non-Seahawks team on Blue Friday in downtown Seattle. Someone wearing non-Seahawks colors/gear attracts more attention than someone wearing their normal work wear. Protests are meant to spark attention from the majority.

The accurate analogy would be if someone walked around downtown Seattle on blue Friday wearing a shirt that said "Seahawks suck" or "12s are dumb fans". Sure, you have every right to do so. But you'll be sure to get a lot of people upset.

Pence just protested the NFL. Some protests are better than other but they are meant to spark attention. It also means that if you protest, you are willing to take the hit if it hurts you.

Yup. And nothing wrong with that.

Nobody's arguing the purpose of a protest and the right to protest. I think we're all in agreement there.

 

[sutz]

You may want to temper that "most Americans" statement a bit.

How Do Americans Feel About The NFL Protests? It Depends On How You Ask]

The debate over NFL player protests was reignited on Sunday when Vice President Mike Pence left an Indianapolis Colts game early after a number of players on the visiting San Francisco 49ers kneeled during the national anthem. (At least one player on the team has kneeled during the anthem every week this season.) President Trump said Pence left at his request.

Polls about the protests have shown wildly different, seemingly conflicting results about where the public stands. But the polling results aren’t as conflicting as they seem, and what pollsters find is heavily influenced by what the debating parties believe the protests mean.

Those poll questions basically focus on one of three frameworks:

1. Patriotism. Trump said his objections to the protests were about “respect for our Country, Flag and National Anthem,” not about race.
2. Free speech. Some onlookers have defended the protests as a matter of free speech, regardless of what issues that speech is meant to highlight.
3. Race. When Colin Kaepernick first began protesting during the national anthem a little over a year ago, he said he wasn’t going to show pride in a country that oppresses people of color, citing a litany of police violence against black Americans.

These three ways of looking at the protests have colored the polling. A recent CBS/YouGov poll of over 1,300 respondents asked people — regardless of whether they agreed with the protests — what NFL players were trying to do by kneeling during the national anthem. A large majority (73 percent) of respondents said the players were trying to call attention to racism, and 69 percent said players were calling attention to police violence. But 40 percent said the protests were trying to disrespect the flag, while 33 percent said the goal was to disrespect the military.

As for Pence and his "protest?" He just blew $250k of taxpayer money flying from Las Vegas to Los Angeles, via Indianapolis. Not to mention he just shit on Peyton Manning Day at the stadium. Nice guy.

on edit: fixed url, edited text