How long until defenses adjust to Waldrens O?

[Rock_the_Hawk]

I know that some team is going to come up with something probably a pressure package against Geno.

But the think i really like about Waldrons O is the versitility of it.... they can beat you so many different ways that it makes an opposing team have to defend everything and thats kind of unrealistic. Thats IMO is whats going to have to happen as this O is in the pocket and rolling.

The more they play the more efficient they get . Its like that one play action rollout pass to Parkinson last game he busted that for big yardage in the past, he was getting 10 -12 yards off that play and it wouldnt surprise me if they start busting that for TDs.

I can plainly see this O is getting more efficient every game i just wouldnt want to be an opposing D coordinator to have to defend against that because its becoming a situation to where the only team that can stop the Hawks are the Hawks and taking advantage of the mistakes is shortly going to be the only way to stop this O. Its not going to be long before thats the way it is.



Thoughts

 

[IndyHawk]

Good luck on trying..
The offense has used 3 tight ends in formation run/pass.
Players are in motion and they change formations..It's a
nightmare for them compared to last year with Me3.I love
it and if I recall right,this offense with the right players keeps
evolving so it's not predictable.

 

[Appyhawk]

How long will it take? It will take exactly as long as it takes us to not have the personnel we need to make it work.

 

[Rock_the_Hawk]

How long will it take? It will take exactly as long as it takes us to not have the personnel we need to make it work.

They will adjust they always do... but then the Hawks will adjust as well and then it just becomes a ultra chess match of coordinators IMO

 

[Polk738]

Hard to tell, I think the real test will come against the Rams and the rematch against the Niners- I think the new style of offense is really throwing off teams because nobody expected Geno Smith to be so efficient with the combination of 13 personnel and K9, as long as I can remember they have never ran this kind of offense before where the QB is using the ENTIRE field.

 

[keasley45]

The Cards actually played us pretty well on the back end. They had good pressure and stuck to 2 high if I remember correctly, challenging Geno to hit the underneath stuff. It's like they thought they were playing RW or something.

Didnt anybody tell'm? That dog don't hunt no more.

 

[Mick063]

It is much, much more about execution and discipline than it is about "Xs and Os". Always has been. Always will be.

This is why it blows my mind that these young "genius" coaches get so much media love when they are so often trying to overcome a pre snap penalty or a simple missed block.
The genius is from getting the choreography right, getting everyone on the same page. Not from designing some super impressive OO7 spy play. This just in. Every play that a young prodigy has included in his sideline "cheat sheet" was invented long, long ago. Probably by Paul Brown, Don Coryell, or Bill Walsh.

No one "figures out " anybody. They "figure out" themselves. They line up and physically beat you up with blocking and tackling. They don't commit dumb penalties at the worst possible time. They hang on to the football. This is why the Ravens and Titans can keep up with the Bills and Chiefs. This is why the Jets and Giants are still in the hunt. This is why on any given Sunday; anybody can beat anybody. Consistency is the "end all "solution to winning. If you have the horses, and they are disciplined and on the same page, you can run the "Wing T" (a 100-year-old offense) and win in this league.

Pete Carroll KNOWS this as well as anyone.

 

[sutz]

It is much, much more about execution and discipline than it is about "Xs and Os". Always has been. Always will be.

This is why it blows my mind that these young "genius" coaches get so much media love when they are so often trying to overcome a pre snap penalty or a simple missed block.
The genius is from getting the choreography right, getting everyone on the same page. Not from designing some super impressive OO7 spy play. This just in. Every play that a young prodigy is holding in his sideline "cheat sheet" was invented long, long ago. Probably by Paul Brown, Don Coryell, or Bill Walsh.

No one "figures out " anybody. They line up and physically beat you up with blocking and tackling. This is why the Ravens and Titans can keep up with the Bills and Chiefs.

Pete Carroll KNOWS this as well as anyone.

Yeah, bottom line is that it's about the fundamentals: blocking, tackling, moving the ball, executing the plays.

I do like that we're using more of the motion and misdirection than we used to. Our D is a little trickier, too.

 

[BlueTalon]

We're putting stuff on film for people to study. That shovel pass to a TE up the middle succeeded on 4th down a week ago (Surprise!). This week, it got sniffed out.

 

[sutz]

We're putting stuff on film for people to study. That shovel pass to a TE up the middle succeeded on 4th down a week ago (Surprise!). This week, it got sniffed out.

Yeah, going to the well too many times. Was such an obviously similar situation, too.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

I'm interested to see what happens in the rematch with the Niners. I think it was in a breakdown of the Chiefs beating the Niners that a question was raised to the person asking what offense is the Niners D really built to. beat. The answer without hesitation was the Rams. Considering Waldron is from that McVey tree, that could be interesting

 

[Torc]

It's that 13 personnel that is making it tough for defenses. All three of our TEs are really good receivers. Parkinson and Dissly are both fantastic blockers (I don't know about Fant?). It's a formation that is strong for either the run or the pass - the defense has to account for all three TEs plus the receivers if it's a pass play, and if it is a run then they've got three big bodies plus the O-line to block (not to mention DK). 10 of the 26 completions against the Cards were to the TEs. That's a bit higher than previous weeks but it shows what they can do if that's what the defense is focused on other areas.

I'm looking forward to the 49ers game too. It's going to be the best gauge of where the Hawks were at the beginning of the year compared to now.

 

[bileever]

Obviously, talent and execution are important. The Rams, with a poor O line and average RBs, are no longer able to execute their scheme effectively. But the scheme is still crucial. Shanahan and McVay really deployed a modern offense when they became head coaches, and when they first appeared on the scene, they were unstoppable. It was frustrating as hell to watch them run those wide zone runs and gain big chunks of yardage out of 11 personnel.

Of course, the league eventually caught up to Shanahan and McVay, and their scheme no longer creates the same problems for defenses. But executed properly, it is still a very effective system for offenses. Waldron has added his own wrinkles to it, such as running the schemes out of 13 personnel, where the tight ends create mismatches, either in speed against a linebacker or size against a DB.

But just as Shanahan is a master of countering his own tendencies, Pete and Shane will have to continue to surprise defenses by running different plays out of the same look.

 

[Own The West]

Keep in mind a (good) offense changes from week to week. There may be a core set of plays and formations we always use, but they have a set of sub-packages they install on a week to week basis just to keep defenses guessing. We were rather one dimensional last year, you just had to keep everything in front of you and wait for the deepball incomplete or a sack then pin your ears back on 3rd and long.

This year we're jab, jab, jab until we figure out what you're giving up, then we hit you there every time we need a first down or a big play. The only 'adjusting' people can do is decide where they want to take their risks, or if they want to take something away and open something else up at halftime. It's a team sport and luckily we got guys that are willing to feature whomever we need to win.

 

[Mick063]

It's that 13 personnel that is making it tough for defenses. All three of our TEs are really good receivers. Parkinson and Dissly are both fantastic blockers (I don't know about Fant?). It's a formation that is strong for either the run or the pass - the defense has to account for all three TEs plus the receivers if it's a pass play, and if it is a run then they've got three big bodies plus the O-line to block (not to mention DK). 10 of the 26 completions against the Cards were to the TEs. That's a bit higher than previous weeks but it shows what they can do if that's what the defense is focused on other areas.

I'm looking forward to the 49ers game too. It's going to be the best gauge of where the Hawks were at the beginning of the year compared to now.

In my opinion, the best reply in this thread. Torc nailed it.

Parkinson needs some love. Like a whole bunch of love. Should have been included in the "most surprising" thread. Probably would have gotten my vote. I havn't seen a Seattle tight end that was this consistently good with the run game support in a long, long time. Maybe even better than Zach Miller. Always putting his hat on someone at the point of attack. K9 needs to take this guy out for dinner. Further, someone needs to coach up Walker up a bit. Hey K9, get on Parkinson's butt, make one cut, and GO! The hole will be there. You don't have to bounce outside every time. The tendency will show on film and eventually catch up with you.

 

[Rainger]

It is all about execution. Don't think they will. It is not a predictable O. It adapts to what the D is showing.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

Good luck on trying..
The offense has used 3 tight ends in formation run/pass.
Players are in motion and they change formations..It's a
nightmare for them compared to last year with Me3.I love
it and if I recall right,this offense with the right players keeps
evolving so it's not predictable.

This was the Waldron plan.

"Can't tell by looking at our formation if it's going to be a pass or a run play".

That was one of his stated goals coming on board. One of the first things he said -

The reason that I've said it's not as easy as it seems to 'defuse' the Waldron offense is because it's not ONE offense.

Anyhow.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

That roll out to the right, TE wide open, worked at least 5 times. Cards couldn't do crap about it. So hilarious.
It's a very well designed play, it looks like a run to the left, every time. All the lineman start moving to their left, TE just waiting for the pass. I just found it funny that Arizona couldn't do a damn thing to stop it. Especially with the game on the line. But like you said, it's probably not as easy as it looks to adjust to that on the fly.

 

[keasley45]

It is much, much more about execution and discipline than it is about "Xs and Os". Always has been. Always will be.

This is why it blows my mind that these young "genius" coaches get so much media love when they are so often trying to overcome a pre snap penalty or a simple missed block.
The genius is from getting the choreography right, getting everyone on the same page. Not from designing some super impressive OO7 spy play. This just in. Every play that a young prodigy has included in his sideline "cheat sheet" was invented long, long ago. Probably by Paul Brown, Don Coryell, or Bill Walsh.

No one "figures out " anybody. They "figure out" themselves. They line up and physically beat you up with blocking and tackling. They don't commit dumb penalties at the worst possible time. They hang on to the football. This is why the Ravens and Titans can keep up with the Bills and Chiefs. This is why the Jets and Giants are still in the hunt. This is why on any given Sunday; anybody can beat anybody. Consistency is the "end all "solution to winning. If you have the horses, and they are disciplined and on the same page, you can run the "Wing T" (a 100-year-old offense) and win in this league.

Pete Carroll KNOWS this as well as anyone.

Slow clap...

This x 1000

'Innovative' offenses come and go. The number of combinations of routes, motions , etc that a o coordinator can reasonably use is finite because at a certain point, the degree of precision required to beat a defense and get every one of your 11 guys to perform their task perfectly is just too great. AND, invariably, a defense will find the cryptonite for whatever the latest innovation is . ANDDDD...the more innovative that offense is, the more it will rely upon an uber elite qb to execute it and uber elite talent in key positions to make it function. Take away the uber elite qb and you've got a Ferrari that breaks down every 20 miles.

Slow and steady wins the race. Sound, flawless, intimidating football, with enough playmakers around the ball to make a varied scheme work... that's much more sustainable. You don't need no look passes from the Mahomes' of the world to make that work. You need a Geno and a bunch of smart, hungry, above average guys that play with their hair on fire and a chip on their shoulder.

Aggression and intimidation... those things are base human elements. They apply to business, sports, war, politics... they are a constant. If you can give your guys a plan that's complex enough to keep your attack fresh, but simple enough that it doesn't require a masters degree to operate, you've got a formula for sustained success... ie Peteball. And when your 11 are flying around and wrecking the opposing 11s plans over and over, they begin to lose their fight, their edge, and their will to compete.

Pete MF'ng Ball.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Again, dink and dunk and eating up TOP has been a HUGE plus this year. Come the 4th quarter, they have worn down the defense. Next thing you know the Closer is finishing out the game. Walker is the real deal. The way this offense is being called actually matches the personnel. Imagine that
Geno takes what the defense gives him, exactly what this YOUNG team needs.