"Holdout" news of Earl Thomas

[SoulfishHawk]

And where is this team going to come up w/the money? Unless Cliff AND Kam retire and we save a bunch of cap somehow (depends on what type of $ the Hawks would save by them retiring etc.) it's not gonna' happen.
Earl just saw Sherm, Kam and Cliff go down with major injuries, two which might end up being career ending. So, he's not doing something that other players haven't done.

 

[TwistedHusky]

We might be able to keep these players if we didn't squander 10+M on stupid signings.

Lacey
Joekel (or however you spell his name, as if it mattered)

etc.

This team needs to pay its players and stop trying to pay big dollars to FA guys that are high dollar signings.

Cary Williams probably directly led to Kam holding out.

Harvin likely lost us Tate.

Maybe Brown works out for us, but given the track record of this FO? Doubtful.


But, if we had bothered to keep some of our OL we probably wouldn't be in this spot. The big problem with this team is not overpaying guys on the team, it has always been not keeping guys while overpaying FAs to come in and suck for us.

Thomas isn't the problem.

The problem is that removing Thomas means you have to replace him with someone. And our FO hasn't shown the ability to consistently scout talent or develop it. So the idea that you can just replace him is probably faulty. Because even as Thomas loses effectiveness, ET at 80% clearly looks better than whatever we have in the wings. Likely ET at 70% does too.

You pay Thomas or you concede that your defense isn't going to be able to shut people down anymore and you better figure out how to score a hell of a lot more to compensate.

But it is laughable to weaken the defense (significantly) when you have little to no line, no run game and a QB that is tremendously inconsistent (at least until the 4th). Go ahead and chip away at your strengths but all you are going to have left is a whole lot of weaknesses.

The only justification for a move like removing Thomas (who with Kam is a linchpin of this D) is that we are going to now go full on "Pittsburgh Steelers" and start winning by outscoring the opposition instead of focusing on shutting the opposition down. We might have the pieces for this approach, but I'm not sure the coach has the stomach or the inclination for it.

 

[Sports Hernia]

And where is this team going to come up w/the money? Unless Cliff AND Kam retire and we save a bunch of cap somehow (depends on what type of $ the Hawks would save by them retiring etc.) it's not gonna' happen.
Earl just saw Sherm, Kam and Cliff go down with major injuries, two which might end up being career ending. So, he's not doing something that other players haven't done.

Jimmy, Sheldon, and Lane are all gone more than likely.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yep. Going to be very interesting to see how the Cliff and Kam things play out too.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Trade him

 

[Bobblehead]

If we trade him, he needs to be traded to a team like Jax who probably feel they are one great FS away from winning the SB... maybe the Steelers, but I'd go with the Browns.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Not a fan of a trade at all, unless we get a lot in return.

 

[Bobblehead]

Not a fan of a trade at all, unless we get a lot in return.

Not either, but if it so happens, you would want to trade to a team, who just feels they are one ET from all the marbles.. they are the teams that will drop a load for that one player. I would think..

 

[TwistedHusky]

We would be lucky to get a 4th round pick for him and more likely a 5th.

Not sure a lot of difference making safeties are in the draft at that slot, assuming we even had the consistency in our scouting acumen to be able to reasonably expect a producing player in the secondary from that draft slot.

I suppose we could package that 4th to try to move up a bit and stand a better chance of getting someone but drafts are a roll of the die and we are not exactly tremendous at reliably hitting on players like we used to.

Of course, then we have to find an effective safety, which we would likely end up having to hit FA for. Probably paying 5-6M for that safety, getting nowhere near the production in the process.

So for all that, we wouldn't save $10M we would likely save $4-5M.

The same $4-5M could easily be saved by not making stupid FA signings at other positions though....

 

[ApnaHawk]

ET is not being traded, unless someone offers the whole house. I don't know why you guys keep thinking we'd trade a future HOF for anything less then a 1st plus multiple mid round picks or 2 first round picks. It would be something along the lines of a Herschel Walker trade.

For those who think he can't play till at least 32-33, I give you Ed Reed. That defensive backfield has never been the same without Reed. Heck that defense has never been the same without both an "aging' lewis and Reed and they have always been about defense.

This is the first year the Baltimore defense has gotten things better and look how long it took them.

And to the guy that said Easly played SS and Earl plays FS, that wasn't my point. My point was that players that are FIRST BALLOT HALL OF FAMERS, don't just come around... So many variables have to fall in place, like commitment to the game etc. The passion for to be one of the greatest. The hard work and extra time put in. You can find athletes all the time because you can't play the game without being fast, but even JS said this. You can't always know whats in their heart.

I rather pay Earl 12-13 mil for 3-4 years and know that I got a future HOF covering my back end. When a new coach comes, he can clean house. As long as Pete is here ( I seriously doubt more then 3 years) I want earl commanding his back field.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

We would be lucky to get a 4th round pick for him and more likely a 5th....

Even though Earl's had injuries, he's still a top 5 free safety, and is in the prime of his career.

So my guess is we'd get at least a 1st, or maybe a 2nd and 3rd. Something like that........which is perfect, it replaces what we traded away.

The problem with Earl is who'd be interested in him, the less teams interested, the less you get. If he's only interested in the Cowboys, then it severely limits compensation.

 

[ApnaHawk]

Also another thing. We have not even been able to replace BRUCE IRVIN for gods sake. BRUCE IRVIN. Yet some of ya'll somehow believe we can replace Earl..

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He is still young, and still very good. Nothing less than a 1st, OR a 2nd and 3rd would be even worth considering.
And who here has said we can replace Earl? There is no replacing a guy at the level. But if he is going to hold out for a huge extension, their hands may be tied.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Also another thing. We have not even been able to replace BRUCE IRVIN for gods sake. BRUCE IRVIN. Yet some of ya'll somehow believe we can replace Earl..

Which Bruce Irvin?

The Bruce Irvin who couldn't be the dynamic pass rushing sack happy DE that we drafted him to be? Or the Bruce Irvin who we had to turn into a hybrid outside LB?

Is 7-8 sack a year worth almost 10M? Cause I betcha the Raiders are having 2nd thoughts giving him a big deal, which we weren't willing to do. IMO one of the few smart decisions our FO made when they were handing out all these massive 2nd and 3rd contracts that they're now regretting.

I love Earl, but trade him.

 

[ApnaHawk]

Also another thing. We have not even been able to replace BRUCE IRVIN for gods sake. BRUCE IRVIN. Yet some of ya'll somehow believe we can replace Earl..

Which Bruce Irvin?

The Bruce Irvin who couldn't be the dynamic pass rushing sack happy DE that we drafted him to be? Or the Bruce Irvin who we had to turn into a hybrid outside LB?

Is 7-8 sack a year worth almost 10M? Cause I betcha the Raiders are having 2nd thoughts giving him a big deal, which we weren't willing to do. IMO one of the few smart decisions our FO made when they were handing out all these massive 2nd and 3rd contracts that they're now regretting.

I love Earl, but trade him.

I meant the level of talent. Everyone who has played his side has been garbage. My point was that you can't just replace players as easily as people think. Certain talents just don't come around.

It's good we didn't pay him 10+, but to not pay ET that money is ridiculous. He's beyond deserving of it.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I meant the level of talent. Everyone who has played his side has been garbage. My point was that you can't just replace players as easily as people think. Certain talents just don't come around.

It's good we didn't pay him 10+, but to not pay ET that money is ridiculous. He's beyond deserving of it.

I agree on the not replacing Irvin part, haven't drafted well at LB since KJ and Wagner.

But no, I don't agree on extending Earl, too many injuries, too risky for the type of deal he wants (15M+).

If we haven't learned from extending Lynch, Bennett, Kam, etc that paying players for past performance HOPING that their skills don't diminish and they don't get hurt, then we never will.

Do what the Patriot's do, trust you system, draft and develop, don't extend aging vets and try to hit on free agent values that fit into your system and schemes.

 

[Seymour]

Also another thing. We have not even been able to replace BRUCE IRVIN for gods sake. BRUCE IRVIN. Yet some of ya'll somehow believe we can replace Earl..

We have never been able to replace STEVE LARGENT for gods sake either, but have managed to make 3 Super Bowls without him.

Myth---You need to replace a player with an equal or better player of the same position.

Wrong, you only need to build a better team which can be done in many different ways.

 

[Seahawkville]

The team needs to get younger and shed salary at the same time. It's not rocket science.

You CAN'T replace an Earl Thomas, you can hope to however.

 

[Bobblehead]

Everyone loves ET, he's a fantastic footballer and I think everyone would agree to give him a new and fancier contract.

However, no one likes to be railroaded by a players demand , mid contract with the threat of a hold out.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Some of you are going to have to decide which one it is:

1 - Earl Thomas is an aging player in the secondary that is only going to get slower and is starting to get injured.

2 - Earl Thomas is worth at least a 1st round pick and probably more.

Even great players go for cheap when the team loses leverage though. Getting a 1st for ET is a pipe dream.
Yes, WE like to trade 1st round picks for the players. But most FOs are not that stupid.

And more significantly, ET has made it clear that he has certain destinations he would prefer. I highly doubt he would accept a trade to somewhere like Cleveland even if Cleveland gave up a 1st to get him.

You don't think the potential landing spots for ET are not aware the Seahawks wouldn't have many options if they need to try to trade him? He is going to be an older player at a high salary, the Seahawks will have very little to bargain with.

More significantly, Apna pointed out the parallel between the Ravens (who used to be the dominant defense and won with defense repeatedly) and the Seahawks. When the Ravens lost their impact D players because of age - they did not improve. They got worse. Because you cannot 'next man up' great players unless you have tremendous depth or some kind of tremendous development pipeline (neither of which we have).

At this point, it is all speculation. This FO will do whatever it does, likely waste even more money on at least one worthless FA signing and probably offset whatever gains we would get in letting ET go anyway.

But given the difference he makes for this team, we probably need to keep him. We are not the Patriots. We do not have the ability to shed great players and reproduce them with productive replacements.