Hawks expected to release Jamal Adams? (Click Bait)

12forlife

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I still defended him going into this year and during the year, even after the run-ins with the sideline doctors. But I got really turned off by going after that reporter's wife on twitter and then almost doubling down instead of showing remorse.
Well this is what is wrong with our world today. How many times do u let your dog bite you before you put him down?
Hasn't been available or done much of anything in 2 yrs? Belittled the team Dr. On 2 different occasions, then his attack on the reporters wife, attitude so poor not allowed to travel with the team. $27 mil? We should be talking about a 1st team all pro, pro bowl, team Captain! We aren't getting anywhere close to that in return. Time to cut the fat and move on to better players, that produce on the field! "Only thing that works on that guy is his mouth" quote from my grandpa!
 

Pandion Haliaetus

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Well this is what is wrong with our world today. How many times do u let your dog bite you before you put him down?
Hasn't been available or done much of anything in 2 yrs? Belittled the team Dr. On 2 different occasions, then his attack on the reporters wife, attitude so poor not allowed to travel with the team. $27 mil? We should be talking about a 1st team all pro, pro bowl, team Captain! We aren't getting anywhere close to that in return. Time to cut the fat and move on to better players, that produce on the field! "Only thing that works on that guy is his mouth" quote from my grandpa!
I understood why they kept Adams as I felt they built the scheme around him and had see it through. However, in waiting for Adams it seems Nwosu became that key instrumental player that made everything work and Adams was just poor execution, miscommunication, and bad vibes.
 

Parallax

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To be fair, you can't overlook percy's long run on the jet sweep before the game was decided. However, percy seemed to have real psychological issues that may explain his obnoxious behavior...Jamal it seems was just an ass.
No one is "just an ass". In Jamal, I see an extremely defensive man. One who lacks the kind of core necessary to know that he's alright, regardless of whether he can play football skillfully. The reporter questioned his coverage skills and it cut him to the bone. That doesn't happen when people are psychologically healthy. It doesn't happen when people get the love and connection they need as young children to then know, deep in their guts (or their hearts if you prefer) that they're alright just as they are.

Unfortunately, it's pretty normal for kids to not get what they need. We don't have the healthiest culture. There are lots of deeply wounded people doing their best to raise children without a clue how to give them the core strength that they themselves lack. I've often thought that K-12 education would be so much better if we devoted less time to things like trigonometry, that almost no one remembers or uses, and more time to things like "how to resolve conflict", "how to raise children", "how to find yourself and know that you're alright exactly as you are -- and as you are not".
 

Maelstrom787

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No disrespect to Mizak on the clickbait, because that one is pretty insidious and looks exactly like I'd expect a local newspaper's online site to look. They're getting better at this crap.

As for Jamal, hey. He's got some special attributes to his play still. If Macdonald, arguably the brightest young defensive mind in the league, wants to give him another bite at the apple, I have no standing to criticize it given his defensive record.

I'd err strongly on the side of cutting him, but if Macdonald decides to hang on to him, I'm immediately swinging into "hey, let's do it" mode.
 

rigelian

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No one is "just an ass".
Much of what you wrote I whole-heartedly agree with. However, for many people being an ass in our society and culture can be a winning strategy. I think for Jamal it was...for a long time, until it wasn't. It's just my impression of the guy. I never got that sense from Percy. Mind you these are just impressions and a thumbnail observation.
 

bileever

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Pete (and John) were sure, at several different points in the last 14 years, that they were only one game-changing player away from a championship. Percy Harvin was the first of those players. Then there was Jimmy Graham, Sheldon Richardson, Jadaveon Clowney, Jamal Adams and Leonard Williams. And we gave up too much for Harvin, Graham and Adams.

The best acquisitions of the last 14 years were the more under-the-radar ones where we gave up very little for unwanted gems: Marshawn Lynch, Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Quandry Diggs, etc.
 

Parallax

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Pete (and John) were sure, at several different points in the last 14 years, that they were only one game-changing player away from a championship. Percy Harvin was the first of those players. Then there was Jimmy Graham, Sheldon Richardson, Jadaveon Clowney, Jamal Adams and Leonard Williams. And we gave up too much for Harvin, Graham and Adams.

The best acquisitions of the last 14 years were the more under-the-radar ones where we gave up very little for unwanted gems: Marshawn Lynch, Michael Bennett, Cliff Avril, Quandry Diggs, etc.
So true. I'm hoping against hope that Schneider won't overpay on his own. I have a sense that he has an eye for value. I also have a sense that he wants to please the people he works with, sometimes to a fault. Carroll had ultimate authority so that may have been a factor too.

I think two things could make things break more favorably going forward. One is if John's eye for value takes precedent over his desire to please those around him. The other is if Mike Macdonald has an eye for value and therefore doesn't want John to make big, splashy trades that cost too much.
 

RiverDog

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Percy harvin was unquestionably worse (trade than Jamal Adams)
I was one of the harshest critics of the Harvin trade, both the day it happened as well as the day it ended. But there's no way that it trumps the Adams trade. The Adams trade is to date the worst we've ever made, and hopefully ever will make.

And I'll add this: It was the Adams trade where I finally fell off the Pete bandwagon. Up until then, I trusted his judgement at least when it came to defense. With the exception of his first season where he thrived in a vacuum where we were on pace to have a historically inept pass rush, he was a liability on defense, a one trick pony. The fact that he's an A-hole adds insult to injury.
 

Parallax

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I was one of the harshest critics of the Harvin trade, both the day it happened as well as the day it ended. But there's no way that it trumps the Adams trade. The Adams trade is to date the worst we've ever made, and hopefully ever will make.

And I'll add this: It was the Adams trade where I finally fell off the Pete bandwagon. Up until then, I trusted his judgement at least when it came to defense. With the exception of his first season where he thrived in a vacuum where we were on pace to have a historically inept pass rush, he was a liability on defense, a one trick pony. The fact that he's an A-hole adds insult to injury.
I'm mostly in agreement. I'd stop short of the harsh judgment. Marshall Rosenberg, the genius who created a peacemaking technique called Non-Violent Communication or NVC, said that "judgement is a tragic expression of unmet needs". When I notice myself feeling judgmental toward someone or something, I look for the unmet need.

In the case of the Seahawks under Carroll, I had a need for efficiency that was thwarted by trades where it seemed like we were giving way too much. This would cause feelings like frustration and anger. I think Pete belonged nowhere near the levers of power when it came to trades, signing free agents or re-signing veterans. He was a great cheerleader.

I fell off the bandwagon later than you. I was no fan of the Adams trade. Like you, I hated it from the beginning. But I understood that, with an aging Russell Wilson, it might make sense to mortgage the future a bit for the "right now". So I talked myself into it.

I fell off the wagon irrevocably when the Williams trade went down. It seemed beyond obvious to me that our record to that point was an illusion. When he gave up our second-most-valuable piece of draft capital for a ten game rental of a veteran when we had no legitimate chance of having a deep playoff run, I lost it. And when I say I lost it, I mean I lost it. I was angry and contemptuous. The guy seemed selfish and stupid. Pete seemed to me an old man just desperately trying to hold on without consideration that we fans might have different interests. Like the long term.

Talk about judgment; those are pretty heavy. It would be fair to say I felt hatred. Using NVC, I could see that my need was, again, for efficiency. For an approach that wasn't futile and that wouldn't mortgage the future. But that was the point when I decided it was time (and in fact well past time) for Pete to go. It became more than clear that he could not be trusted (and that John and the rest of the organization could not be trusted to contain him).

As far as I'm concerned, John is not out of the woods. I like our recent drafts. I love the way he went about choosing a coaching staff. We'll see how he handles future trades, free agent signings and the like. Can he be efficient, as were and are his Green Bay mentors. As was and are the Baltimore Ravens.
 

Maelstrom787

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I was one of the harshest critics of the Harvin trade, both the day it happened as well as the day it ended. But there's no way that it trumps the Adams trade. The Adams trade is to date the worst we've ever made, and hopefully ever will make.

And I'll add this: It was the Adams trade where I finally fell off the Pete bandwagon. Up until then, I trusted his judgement at least when it came to defense. With the exception of his first season where he thrived in a vacuum where we were on pace to have a historically inept pass rush, he was a liability on defense, a one trick pony. The fact that he's an A-hole adds insult to injury.
The Harvin trade was easily worse and likely cost us XLIX.

Adams thriving in a single season alone makes him a better acquisition than Harvin. Done and dusted.
 

Hawkamaniac

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Back to the main point of the article, which is whether or not Adams is cut, I think the best possible outcome is some nature of rework. Jamaal appears to want to be here, he likely has very little value on the open market, and he's due somewhere in the neighborhood of $20M in bonus there's no getting out of. I also doubt there's very little chance of a team trading for him. So, I think he takes somewhere in the neighborhood of a $10-12M/yr salary cut and we all hope MM schemes up ways for him to not be a waste of a roster spot.
 

RiverDog

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I'm mostly in agreement. I'd stop short of the harsh judgment. Marshall Rosenberg, the genius who created a peacemaking technique called Non-Violent Communication or NVC, said that "judgement is a tragic expression of unmet needs". When I notice myself feeling judgmental toward someone or something, I look for the unmet need.

In the case of the Seahawks under Carroll, I had a need for efficiency that was thwarted by trades where it seemed like we were giving way too much. This would cause feelings like frustration and anger. I think Pete belonged nowhere near the levers of power when it came to trades, signing free agents or re-signing veterans. He was a great cheerleader.

I fell off the bandwagon later than you. I was no fan of the Adams trade. Like you, I hated it from the beginning. But I understood that, with an aging Russell Wilson, it might make sense to mortgage the future a bit for the "right now". So I talked myself into it.

I fell off the wagon irrevocably when the Williams trade went down. It seemed beyond obvious to me that our record to that point was an illusion. When he gave up our second-most-valuable piece of draft capital for a ten game rental of a veteran when we had no legitimate chance of having a deep playoff run, I lost it. And when I say I lost it, I mean I lost it. I was angry and contemptuous. The guy seemed selfish and stupid. Pete seemed to me an old man just desperately trying to hold on without consideration that we fans might have different interests. Like the long term.

Talk about judgment; those are pretty heavy. It would be fair to say I felt hatred. Using NVC, I could see that my need was, again, for efficiency. For an approach that wasn't futile and that wouldn't mortgage the future. But that was the point when I decided it was time (and in fact well past time) for Pete to go. It became more than clear that he could not be trusted (and that John and the rest of the organization could not be trusted to contain him).

As far as I'm concerned, John is not out of the woods. I like our recent drafts. I love the way he went about choosing a coaching staff. We'll see how he handles future trades, free agent signings and the like. Can he be efficient, as were and are his Green Bay mentors. As was and are the Baltimore Ravens.
Nice post!

I mostly agree with your sentiment about John Schneider. We don't know how much influence he's had earlier, but it's his team now. I'm optimistic about the coaching staff he's putting together, but I want to see the finished product before I buy into it.
 

RiverDog

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Back to the main point of the article, which is whether or not Adams is cut, I think the best possible outcome is some nature of rework. Jamaal appears to want to be here, he likely has very little value on the open market, and he's due somewhere in the neighborhood of $20M in bonus there's no getting out of. I also doubt there's very little chance of a team trading for him. So, I think he takes somewhere in the neighborhood of a $10-12M/yr salary cut and we all hope MM schemes up ways for him to not be a waste of a roster spot.
Even when he was healthy, Adams was a liability in every aspect of the game except for his pass rushing. Now, it's an even worse situation as he's damaged goods.

The only thing that Adams does well is rush the quarterback, and coming from the safety position, scheming up a way for him to excel means sacrificing something else, in particular pass coverage.

If we do anything less than cut or trade Adams, we're throwing good money after bad.
 

Hawkamaniac

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Even when he was healthy, Adams was a liability in every aspect of the game except for his pass rushing. Now, it's an even worse situation as he's damaged goods.

The only thing that Adams does well is rush the quarterback, and coming from the safety position, scheming up a way for him to excel means sacrificing something else, in particular pass coverage.

If we do anything less than cut or trade Adams, we're throwing good money after bad.
I don’t entirely disagree. My position is based on optimism associated with MacDonald’s creativity and Jamaal’s pass rush ability.

Is there any salary you’d pay to see him in the new scheme?
 

hawks85

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Never liked Adams. For someone who hasn't done nothing for his team dude's got a big mouth and is arrogant with an ego. Cut his ass. Good riddance.
 

bigcc

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The Harvin trade was easily worse and likely cost us XLIX.

Adams thriving in a single season alone makes him a better acquisition than Harvin. Done and dusted.
100 percent.

I'm by no means carrying jamals water, he's been an immature prick at best recently, and more importantly, not available to play.

But it REALLY doesn't take much to be better than the percy trade. If you ignore the first season then jamal was worse..... But that first season exists
 

bigcc

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I don’t entirely disagree. My position is based on optimism associated with MacDonald’s creativity and Jamaal’s pass rush ability.

Is there any salary you’d pay to see him in the new scheme?
His current....

All it takes is one good season to revive trade value, and I have little doubt his play significantly improves under Macdonald vs hurtt.

We hired him for a reason, let Mac cook
 

RiverDog

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I don’t entirely disagree. My position is based on optimism associated with MacDonald’s creativity and Jamaal’s pass rush ability.

Is there any salary you’d pay to see him in the new scheme?
Short answer is no.

The slightly longer answer is that if it wasn't for his contract, I don't think he even makes the team. I'm that down on him.

At least in my book, the ability to rush the quarterback ranks down the list of desirable attributes for a safety. More important are coverage skills, run support, ball hawkishness, all things that Adams has struggled with, especially now that he's likely never going to regain his physical form.

Besides, he hasn't had a quarterback sack since December of 2020. Injuries or no injuries, that's 3 straight seasons he hasn't gotten home.
 
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