Good Explanation As To Why It Was Time

[pittpnthrs]

Seahawks defensive lineman Jarran Reed throws shade at Pete Carroll

The Seattle Seahawks have a new coaching staff and defensive lineman Jarran Reed seems quite happy about that.

12thmanrising.com

The title of the article is a bit misleading but shares a few things that were obvious.

Pete's scheme and philosophy was stale. Players playing out of position with no plan to remedy it. Being good enough to have winning records, but never good enough to sniff a Super Bowl for years.

 

[Maelstrom787]

It's really, really hard to not immediately click off of that article when it includes "bad run defense" as a carry-over from Ken Norton Jr.

We had been a top-5 defense in yards per carry allowed for 2 years consecutively when Norton was fired.

I hate when articles like this are so comfortable with being so inaccurate. It's exactly how complete falsehoods become accepted narratives in fanbases.

The story is this. They completely tore it down after 2017, and by 2020, the run defense was certifiably elite using Carroll classics like the hybrid Bear front. After Norton was fired and Carroll went away from his greatest hits in an effort to modernize with Hurtt and Desai, it went to shit. That context is very, very important.

That being said, sure. It was time if he wasn't gonna fire Hurtt or Waldron.

 

[Hawknight]

Seahawks defensive lineman Jarran Reed throws shade at Pete Carroll

The Seattle Seahawks have a new coaching staff and defensive lineman Jarran Reed seems quite happy about that.

12thmanrising.com

The title of the article is a bit misleading but shares a few things that were obvious.

Pete's scheme and philosophy was stale. Players playing out of position with no plan to remedy it. Being good enough to have winning records, but never good enough to sniff a Super Bowl for years.

Teams like the Rams figured us out a long while ago. It's never a good approach to come at the same team twice a year with the same philosophies....you're going to get your arse handed to you one way or another.

 

[kidhawk]

It's really, really hard to not immediately click off of that article when it includes "bad run defense" as a carry-over from Ken Norton Jr.

We had been a top-5 defense in yards per carry allowed for 2 years consecutively when Norton was fired.

I hate when articles like this are so comfortable with being so inaccurate. It's exactly how complete falsehoods become accepted narratives in fanbases.

The story is this. They completely tore it down after 2017, and by 2020, the run defense was certifiably elite using Carroll classics like the hybrid Bear front. After Norton was fired and Carroll went away from his greatest hits in an effort to modernize with Hurtt and Desai, it went to shit. That context is very, very important.

That being said, sure. It was time if he wasn't gonna fire Hurtt or Waldron.

That is the one thing about fan site articles that can be annoying. They often are written to make a specific point and can often be written using more memories And opinions than pure facts.

 

[pittpnthrs]

That being said, sure. It was time if he wasn't gonna fire Hurtt or Waldron.

So you would be satisfied with Pete still being the coach with yet another set of coordinators?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

oh god no..........

 

[Ruminator]

Time for Pete to reflect, then write another book.

 

[hawkfan68]

It's really, really hard to not immediately click off of that article when it includes "bad run defense" as a carry-over from Ken Norton Jr.

We had been a top-5 defense in yards per carry allowed for 2 years consecutively when Norton was fired.

I hate when articles like this are so comfortable with being so inaccurate. It's exactly how complete falsehoods become accepted narratives in fanbases.

The story is this. They completely tore it down after 2017, and by 2020, the run defense was certifiably elite using Carroll classics like the hybrid Bear front. After Norton was fired and Carroll went away from his greatest hits in an effort to modernize with Hurtt and Desai, it went to shit. That context is very, very important.

That being said, sure. It was time if he wasn't gonna fire Hurtt or Waldron.

Agreed. Stopping the run was not an issue with KNJ led defense. The problems defending the run started when Hurtt became the DC

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Things we know:

1. Carroll, not a good Xs and Os coach
2. Carroll, hires coordinators, that are also pretty awful Xs and Os coordinators (look at the NFL for the Carroll’s tree, what coach is still good/relevant)
3. Players also know this

I’m so happy we have changes in coaching staff on both sides of the ball.

Seattle actually has a chance and hope now!

 

[AROS]

"It’s refreshing getting someone new in here - different coaching style, different playing style."

Wow, that's a real straight up, pernicious, fatal blow of shade right there...

 

[JayhawkMike]

It was time because it was far past time for a change and most of the fans who stubbornly and ignorantly thought PC could recreate his Super Bowl run finally gave up (Though there are a few still here)

 

[AROS]

As much as I loved Pete and what he brought to our team and us fans, it was quite obvious he was past his expiration date when it came to his stale defensive philosophies/schemes and stubbornness/over-loyalty to coordinators who had no business being in their roles, certainly for as long as some of them were.

If your division rivals know what you are going to do because of your refusal to change your base schemes, that's a problem.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Hey, another one of these threads. Just what we needed.

 

[chris98251]

Hey, another one of these threads. Just what we needed.

Wrong, we need more RW threads here has not been enough, oh and bring back the Hass Sucks threads also.....

 

[Hawkinaz]

Things we know:

1. Carroll, not a good Xs and Os coach
2. Carroll, hires coordinators, that are also pretty awful Xs and Os coordinators (look at the NFL for the Carroll’s tree, what coach is still good/relevant)
3. Players also know this

I’m so happy we have changes in coaching staff on both sides of the ball.

Seattle actually has a chance and hope now!

I agree with Carroll not being a good Xs and Os coach he relies on elite players playing a basic system it reminds me of the 90s Cowboys, you will know what’s coming but good luck stopping it, once the LOB got older and skills started to fade it was the beginning of the end

PC always hired yes men as coaches which I felt was his down fall

 

[chris98251]

Which is why I was disappointed he didn't hire Chow, his offense was more aggressive and down field, but at USC the both of them clashed. Marshawn had one sound bite that told me all I needed, he asked Pete can we score some more ? or something to that effect. The whole what's your deal thing I believe stuck with Pete about running up points, so much he throttled back with a lead almost all the time.

 

[Maelstrom787]

So you would be satisfied with Pete still being the coach with yet another set of coordinators?

Depends entirely on which coordinators and why.

I'm tired of acting like two 9-8 years after trading Russ is some sort of tortuous hell. It's petulant.

The man was winning more games than he was losing while simultaneously making grown men write like Sylvia Plath on the internet about how their existence as a fan is a cruel and horrid fate. Anyone who can win that much at their floor deserves their vision heard for the ceiling. Not really that unreasonable to anyone willing to step back for a moment and look at the full picture.

 

[flv2]

Norton Jr. was fired after the 2021 season. That season the Seahawks were #17 in rushing defense by yardage, #31 in passing defense by yardage, and #28 in overall defense by yardage. Opponents moved the ball down the field almost at will. The Seahawks were #31 in 1st downs conceded, 1 ahead of last place. The Seahawks defense was extremely tough in the red zone. Got to give them credit for that. #11-T in points conceded.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Things we know:

1. Carroll, not a good Xs and Os coach
2. Carroll, hires coordinators, that are also pretty awful Xs and Os coordinators (look at the NFL for the Carroll’s tree, what coach is still good/relevant)
3. Players also know this

I’m so happy we have changes in coaching staff on both sides of the ball.

Seattle actually has a chance and hope now!

Hope is a mental construct. Seattle had hope before. Even teams in purgatory improve.

Don't believe me? Ask the John Harbaugh Ravens, who had a worse skid than us for nearly a decade before re-entering contention. Nearly the exact same situation.

 

[jammerhawk]

As much as I loved Pete and what he brought to our team and us fans, it was quite obvious he was past his expiration date when it came to his stale defensive philosophies/schemes and stubbornness/over-loyalty to coordinators who had no business being in their roles, certainly for as long as some of them were.

If your division rivals know what you are going to do because of your refusal to change your base schemes, that's a problem.

Completely agree with this post.

Pete WAS a great coach but his style didn't keep up with changes going on around the league.

I genuinely thought he was still able to be a great coach but his whole schtick had become tired and predictable. Truly thought he thought so too and he wasn't no longer genuinely competing.

Once again I hope this thread doesn't turn into another dancing on Pete's grave thread as has become somewhat of the norm here lately.

It was time for change, change has been made. It's time to move on and allow Pete to ride off in the sunset .