Geno Trade Value?

[Parallax]

Rick Spielman is a former GM, though. Not a fan. So, I think he has a better sense of the market.

I'd be thrilled if we traded Geno for a second. Particularly in this draft with so much line talent and such a huge need for guys in the trenches.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Rick Spielman is a former GM, though. Not a fan. So, I think he has a better sense of the market.

Speaking of NFL markets...

I think part of what is fooling us is how insanely quick the NFL contract numbers have exploded.

$30million sounds like a lot for a player, but did you know that the NFL cap has actually doubled since our Super Bowl season in 2013?

That means that Geno's contract now is what a $15 million contract was 10 years ago, and I think mentally, most of us as fans haven't adjusted our perception as much as the actual percentages have adjusted. I'm guilty of that when it comes to my snap judgments too.

But is it actually what a $15m apy contract would've been in 2013? The most cap devoted to a QB that year was $20m - and that was Eli Manning.

The NFL has become a more QB centric league. The starter makes a bigger piece of the pie these days. That's just how it's done as the NFL has evolved.

Geno is scheduled to have the 12th highest QB cap hit in 2024 and has the 18th highest current APY (average salary per year) for a quarterback per Over The Cap.

The 12th highest QB cap hit in 2013 was Tony Romo at 11 million.

The 18th highest QB APY in 2013 was Michael Vick at 7.5 million average per year.

Its a different league now, and I don't know that the consensus reaction to the raw numbers has entirely evolved with it. Just something to consider.

 

[12forlife]

Than SOME seahawks fans think....

I think he's untradeable, he's getting paid 9.6 million dollars by whatever team he's on on 3/17, why the **** would they trade for him before then, and the only reason to get rid of geno is money saved (22.5 million)

If we draft a qb and keep geno, we're literally just having the same discussion next year, and burning 2 years of a qb on a rookie contract would be a travesty

I think it is a lot to ask of any rookie QB to set in day 1 and expect success? I also believe in maximizing a rookie contract. Look we aren't winning the SB next year. Cut the fat & our loses now. Have to get out of the stupid contracts. Lockett, Diggs, Adams, Dissly & Geno. Could even consider trading DK for the right draft capital, and save another big chunk. Start drafting the guys for the new regime, pick up a guy or 2 in FA. Then I feel you let Lock & Rookie battle it out for the Sarting job. If we go 5-12 oh well higher draft picks, add another piece or 2 in FA, and hope we are playoff contenders again in '25.

 

[sutz]

Speaking of NFL markets...

I think part of what is fooling us is how insanely quick the NFL contract numbers have exploded.

$30million sounds like a lot for a player, but did you know that the NFL cap has actually doubled since our Super Bowl season in 2013?

That means that Geno's contract now is what a $15 million contract was 10 years ago, and I think mentally, most of us as fans haven't adjusted our perception as much as the actual percentages have adjusted. I'm guilty of that when it comes to my snap judgments too.

But is it actually what a $15m apy contract would've been in 2013? The most cap devoted to a QB that year was $20m - and that was Eli Manning.

The NFL has become a more QB centric league. The starter makes a bigger piece of the pie these days. That's just how it's done as the NFL has evolved.

Geno is scheduled to have the 12th highest QB cap hit in 2024 and has the 18th highest current APY (average salary per year) for a quarterback per Over The Cap.

The 12th highest QB cap hit in 2013 was Tony Romo at 11 million.

The 18th highest QB APY in 2013 was Michael Vick at 7.5 million average per year.

Its a different league now, and I don't know that the consensus reaction to the raw numbers has entirely evolved with it. Just something to consider.

I figure most fans are several years behind in what actual competitive salary numbers should be in most situation.

 

[Parallax]

I think it is a lot to ask of any rookie QB to set in day 1 and expect success? I also believe in maximizing a rookie contract. Look we aren't winning the SB next year. Cut the fat & our loses now. Have to get out of the stupid contracts. Lockett, Diggs, Adams, Dissly & Geno. Could even consider trading DK for the right draft capital, and save another big chunk. Start drafting the guys for the new regime, pick up a guy or 2 in FA. Then I feel you let Lock & Rookie battle it out for the Sarting job. If we go 5-12 oh well higher draft picks, add another piece or 2 in FA, and hope we are playoff contenders again in '25.

That's what I'd like to see. Pretty much exactly.

 

[knownone]

Speaking of NFL markets...

I think part of what is fooling us is how insanely quick the NFL contract numbers have exploded.

$30million sounds like a lot for a player, but did you know that the NFL cap has actually doubled since our Super Bowl season in 2013?

That means that Geno's contract now is what a $15 million contract was 10 years ago, and I think mentally, most of us as fans haven't adjusted our perception as much as the actual percentages have adjusted. I'm guilty of that when it comes to my snap judgments too.

But is it actually what a $15m apy contract would've been in 2013? The most cap devoted to a QB that year was $20m - and that was Eli Manning.

The NFL has become a more QB centric league. The starter makes a bigger piece of the pie these days. That's just how it's done as the NFL has evolved.

Geno is scheduled to have the 12th highest QB cap hit in 2024 and has the 18th highest current APY (average salary per year) for a quarterback per Over The Cap.

The 12th highest QB cap hit in 2013 was Tony Romo at 11 million.

The 18th highest QB APY in 2013 was Michael Vick at 7.5 million average per year.

Its a different league now, and I don't know that the consensus reaction to the raw numbers has entirely evolved with it. Just something to consider.

Absolutely. And, among non-rookie starters, Geno's cost/performance is pretty good. His cap hit next season is $19 million less than Stafford's, $29 million less than Dak's, and $16 million less than Daniel Jones. If anything, Geno's contract adds to his trade value.

 

[Parallax]

Absolutely. And, among non-rookie starters, Geno's cost/performance is pretty good. His cap hit next season is $19 million less than Stafford's, $29 million less than Dak's, and $16 million less than Daniel Jones. If anything, Geno's contract adds to his trade value.

The facts you cite are true I'm but I don't think it's the right lens for evaluation. I don't think it makes sense for a team in the Seahawks position to pay that kind of money to an average quarterback. Particularly one who is as good as he's ever going to be and doesn't have a lot of years left.

I think it makes sense to go with a low-cost guy. Either a veteran who will sign an inexpensive contract (i.e. Drew Lock) or a guy on a rookie contract. I think that's why a lot of us are hoping for both. Maybe one veteran and a rookie or two to battle it out in camp.

In my perfect world, we'd take cap hits in 2024 on all the dead weight contracts so there's nothing left of them in 2025. We'd also try to trade some of our veterans who have trade value for draft picks, this year or next. A true rebuild.

 

[knownone]

The facts you cite are true I'm but I don't think it's the right lens for evaluation. I don't think it makes sense for a team in the Seahawks position to pay that kind of money to an average quarterback. Particularly one who is as good as he's ever going to be and doesn't have a lot of years left.

I think it makes sense to go with a low-cost guy. Either a veteran who will sign an inexpensive contract (i.e. Drew Lock) or a guy on a rookie contract. I think that's why a lot of us are hoping for both. Maybe one veteran and a rookie or two to battle it out in camp.

In my perfect world, we'd take cap hits in 2024 on all the dead weight contracts so there's nothing left of them in 2025. We'd also try to trade some of our veterans who have trade value for draft picks, this year or next. A true rebuild.

That's curious. My comment was about Geno's contract being an asset in a trade. So I'm not sure how to respond to this. Nonetheless, feel free to think as you see fit.

 

[Parallax]

That's curious. My comment was about Geno's contract being an asset in a trade. So I'm not sure how to respond to this. Nonetheless, feel free to think as you see fit.

I apologize if I misunderstood. I'm all for getting as much as we can for him.

 

[flv2]

^
Why not give Lock a fair chance if he stays with the team ? Denver apparently sucks at developing QBs ; which includes Lock . In the 8 years since Manning retired , Denver has played 12 QBs . For some reason Denver can't find or develop QBs with much success . Maybe Lock wasn't a failure , as much as Denver was the failure . Lock should get a fair and even chance to compete against Smith or a QB draft pick if that's who's in camp . If he busts out , then so be it . imo

Lock has the opportunity to sign for peanuts anywhere in the league and compete against the starter on that team. He had the same opportunity last year. There's a reason he's viewed as a back-up. He has the physical tools and experience. He can play, but he doesn't process well. Pressure him and the bad play result ratio is much higher than with other players, and the bad plays beat you.

 

[flv2]

Speaking of NFL markets...

I think part of what is fooling us is how insanely quick the NFL contract numbers have exploded.

$30million sounds like a lot for a player, but did you know that the NFL cap has actually doubled since our Super Bowl season in 2013?

That means that Geno's contract now is what a $15 million contract was 10 years ago, and I think mentally, most of us as fans haven't adjusted our perception as much as the actual percentages have adjusted. I'm guilty of that when it comes to my snap judgments too.

But is it actually what a $15m apy contract would've been in 2013? The most cap devoted to a QB that year was $20m - and that was Eli Manning.

The NFL has become a more QB centric league. The starter makes a bigger piece of the pie these days. That's just how it's done as the NFL has evolved.

Geno is scheduled to have the 12th highest QB cap hit in 2024 and has the 18th highest current APY (average salary per year) for a quarterback per Over The Cap.

The 12th highest QB cap hit in 2013 was Tony Romo at 11 million.

The 18th highest QB APY in 2013 was Michael Vick at 7.5 million average per year.

Its a different league now, and I don't know that the consensus reaction to the raw numbers has entirely evolved with it. Just something to consider.

From 2013 to 2019 NFL minimum pay only increased by 22.2%. At the same time the salary cap increased by 52.2%, and since teams paid bottom end FAs in line with rookie pay all the extra money exploded the pay ceiling for difference making players, most of them being QBs. The 2020 CBA reset rookie minimums from $495K to $610K, a 1 year 23% rise to counter the top end of the market, but then covid19 hit and depressed the salary cap. The salary cap is now rising again beyond the average 6% for rookie pay but looking at 2023 is still an imperfect comparison for 2013.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I think it is a lot to ask of any rookie QB to set in day 1 and expect success? I also believe in maximizing a rookie contract. Look we aren't winning the SB next year. Cut the fat & our loses now. Have to get out of the stupid contracts. Lockett, Diggs, Adams, Dissly & Geno. Could even consider trading DK for the right draft capital, and save another big chunk. Start drafting the guys for the new regime, pick up a guy or 2 in FA. Then I feel you let Lock & Rookie battle it out for the Sarting job. If we go 5-12 oh well higher draft picks, add another piece or 2 in FA, and hope we are playoff contenders again in '25.

This is exactly my thoughts except for DK guys like that don't grow on trees and I believe with a good OC he will be used more effectively.

 

[bigcc]

I think it is a lot to ask of any rookie QB to set in day 1 and expect success? I also believe in maximizing a rookie contract. Look we aren't winning the SB next year. Cut the fat & our loses now. Have to get out of the stupid contracts. Lockett, Diggs, Adams, Dissly & Geno. Could even consider trading DK for the right draft capital, and save another big chunk. Start drafting the guys for the new regime, pick up a guy or 2 in FA. Then I feel you let Lock & Rookie battle it out for the Sarting job. If we go 5-12 oh well higher draft picks, add another piece or 2 in FA, and hope we are playoff contenders again in '25.

Preach brother

You reading this Schneider?

Only caveat... I've been preaching about drafting a qb to anyone who will listen, but in the scorched earth scenario, draft an OL and let let lock lead us to failure, Qb1!

 

[bigcc]

From 2013 to 2019 NFL minimum pay only increased by 22.2%. At the same time the salary cap increased by 52.2%, and since teams paid bottom end FAs in line with rookie pay all the extra money exploded the pay ceiling for difference making players, most of them being QBs. The 2020 CBA reset rookie minimums from $495K to $610K, a 1 year 23% rise to counter the top end of the market, but then covid19 hit and depressed the salary cap. The salary cap is now rising again beyond the average 6% for rookie pay but looking at 2023 is still an imperfect comparison for 2013.

Great stuff!

There's a reason you're seeing less QB's sitting to learn, and jumping right in.

I can't speak specifically towards a trend, but I've definitely noticed it over time. Not sure how much it carries over, but I remember hearing last year set a league history record with 10 rookies starting a game.

Wild lol

 

[Maelstrom787]

From 2013 to 2019 NFL minimum pay only increased by 22.2%. At the same time the salary cap increased by 52.2%, and since teams paid bottom end FAs in line with rookie pay all the extra money exploded the pay ceiling for difference making players, most of them being QBs. The 2020 CBA reset rookie minimums from $495K to $610K, a 1 year 23% rise to counter the top end of the market, but then covid19 hit and depressed the salary cap. The salary cap is now rising again beyond the average 6% for rookie pay but looking at 2023 is still an imperfect comparison for 2013.

This is kind of my point though, isn't it?

The raw contract numbers for starting quarterbacks have gone up very quickly and I'm not sure that our overall perception of the numbers has evolved with it, is my point.

Just that $30 million for Geno sounds like big money but is really very middle-of-road as far as current QB contracts go.

It's imperfect but the only thing I wanted to illustrate is just how much bigger the actual numbers have gotten in a relatively short span.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Good points ^
Especially with the fact that the cap is jumping up quite a bit every year. They will need to restructure some contracts, which I suspect they will. They could keep Geno for a year AND still sign Williams and grab a couple guys in free agency. The way that Geno and Lock were together was impressive. You don't often see that between starter and backup. They legit pulled for each other. Geno would be a hell of a mentor to a QB that the Hawks hopefully draft. Let him learn from the bench. Geno isn't gonna' give him the cold shoulder like Rodgers did or other guys.

 

[Parallax]

Good points ^
Especially with the fact that the cap is jumping up quite a bit every year. They will need to restructure some contracts, which I suspect they will. They could keep Geno for a year AND still sign Williams and grab a couple guys in free agency. The way that Geno and Lock were together was impressive. You don't often see that between starter and backup. They legit pulled for each other. Geno would be a hell of a mentor to a QB that the Hawks hopefully draft. Let him learn from the bench. Geno isn't gonna' give him the cold shoulder like Rodgers did or other guys.

That's a good point about Geno, and it applies to Lock too. They're both team guys who will support a rookie. I still think Geno's contract is too large a percentage of cap space for what he delivers versus someone else, like Lock, who is much cheaper. I don't in fact know that he offers anything more than Lock. But he's said many things that have impressed me. My sense is he's grown a lot as a human being over the years, from the days when he got in that fist fight in the Jets locker.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I can see both sides of it for sure. But, I'm not sure any of the QB's that would be available are guys you would want to just throw in the fire. If anything, having Geno in there to help mentor the guy would be very valuable for the new QB. Plus, Geno's teammates clearly love the guy. Also, Geno was doing something that I never thought he could do, he was getting game winning drives. I'm glad I was wrong about the guy. He's an above average QB, imo. IF he's on, he can be pretty damn good.

 

[Double Tribble]

That's what I'd like to see. Pretty much exactly.

+1

 

[Double Tribble]

The facts you cite are true I'm but I don't think it's the right lens for evaluation. I don't think it makes sense for a team in the Seahawks position to pay that kind of money to an average quarterback. Particularly one who is as good as he's ever going to be and doesn't have a lot of years left.

I think it makes sense to go with a low-cost guy. Either a veteran who will sign an inexpensive contract (i.e. Drew Lock) or a guy on a rookie contract. I think that's why a lot of us are hoping for both. Maybe one veteran and a rookie or two to battle it out in camp.

In my perfect world, we'd take cap hits in 2024 on all the dead weight contracts so there's nothing left of them in 2025. We'd also try to trade some of our veterans who have trade value for draft picks, this year or next. A true rebuild.

Preach.