Geno Trade Value?

[Double Tribble]

That's a good point about Geno, and it applies to Lock too. They're both team guys who will support a rookie. I still think Geno's contract is too large a percentage of cap space for what he delivers versus someone else, like Lock, who is much cheaper. I don't in fact know that he offers anything more than Lock. But he's said many things that have impressed me. My sense is he's grown a lot as a human being over the years, from the days when he got in that fist fight in the Jets locker.

Lock's after-game comments after that Eagles game he won are the best comments I've ever heard from a qb.

 

[Parallax]

Lock's after-game comments after that Eagles game he won are the best comments I've ever heard from a qb.

Yeah, my wife is repulsed by quarterbacks who speak with typical quarterback arrogance. She likes the more humble ones. I don't think she heard Lock's comments but that's the sort of thing that impresses her.

I see it a bit differently. That different people have different qualities. The ones she finds arrogant strike me as warriors. Though I'm not a warrior, I find it admirable when one moves through the world that way. I mean I wouldn't want one as my doctor or as a nurse at the hospital but there's a place for everyone. Certainly, I'd value someone like that serving as a police officer or firefighter or solider (as long as he has good ethics).

Brady was very much a warrior type. My wife is repulsed by him. I can't say I'd want to be his buddy, but I can't help admire the guy.

 

[SeaWolv]

I didn't say Lock was better than Smith . Who knows for sure ? It seemed that PC tagged Smith as the starter before taking a long hard look at Lock too . Lock was designated as the backup from the get go . Where was the " always compete " bs that PC preached ? The Hawks should at least give Lock the opportunity to fail . imo

Sounds like you're saying Lock might be better than Geno, he just hasn't been given a chance. I seriously doubt, with his job on the line, that PC went with the wrong choice here. Like I said, when you see a guy in practice you get a pretty good sense of what they can do. He's a solid backup but I doubt he'll ever be a starter.

 

[Parallax]

Sounds like you're saying Lock might be better than Geno, he just hasn't been given a chance. I seriously doubt, with his job on the line, that PC went with the wrong choice here. Like I said, when you see a guy in practice you get a pretty good sense of what they can do. He's a solid backup but I doubt he'll ever be a starter.

I think Pete's perspective was short term. He wasn't worrying about whether Lock might be better than Smith a year or two down the line. It was "win now because I'm old" mode.

 

[SeaWolv]

But bro, we don't need to "see how geno does"... If he did great, cool, we still need a qb when he retires after two years and 14-15 wins over 2 years.

Rookie QB's don't need to acclimate, the nfl is different now, you NEED to capitalize on rookie contracts at qb, I can't state this enough.

If you think starting a 1st round qb over a slightly above average 34 year old QB who went 9-8 (9-9 if playoffs included) is TANKING, I really don't know what to tell you

As I've said, JS needs to find "his guy" either this year or next because Geno is at best a short-term solution. He has time because we've got a cap issue that may take at least a year or two to sort out. Throwing an unknown starter into the mix like Drew Lock for a year is not ideal as you could be looking at a 2-15 season which would be bad for ticket sales and could get guys hurt with the message it sends that you may be throwing in the towel.

What makes you think that with a new updated system Geno wins less then he has the last two years?

Rookie QB's sometimes work out and sometimes they don't, it depends on the player. To definitively say it's not necessary to sit a rookie for a year of development is to ignore the facts.

https://theathletic.com/2830789/202...tting-a-historical-look-at-a-tricky-question/
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/...ck-ready-justin-fields-bears-trey-lance-49ers

Geno may not be elite but he is not "slightly above average". He's B tier not C tier.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/grades/position/qb

 

[SeaWolv]

I think Pete's perspective was short term. He wasn't worrying about whether Lock might be better than Smith a year or two down the line. It was "win now because I'm old" mode.

Which is my point, Geno had the higher floor and who knows who has the higher ceiling. I doubt everyone that Lock has played for has just decided not to explore where his ceiling might be. He's had moments where he's performed well but for him to really get his coaches eye he needs to perform as if he were an NFL starter. I don't think he's shown that level of play yet.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

Denver needs a QB!

 

[flv2]

This is kind of my point though, isn't it?

The raw contract numbers for starting quarterbacks have gone up very quickly and I'm not sure that our overall perception of the numbers has evolved with it, is my point.

Just that $30 million for Geno sounds like big money but is really very middle-of-road as far as current QB contracts go.

It's imperfect but the only thing I wanted to illustrate is just how much bigger the actual numbers have gotten in a relatively short span.

Good points, other than Smith being due $22.5M this year rather than $30M.

From now until the next CBA the salary cap is likely to grow faster than the 6% average growth of bottom end pay. If so the money at the top must inevitably grow at an even faster pace.

 

[SNDavidson]

^
Why not give Lock a fair chance if he stays with the team ? Denver apparently sucks at developing QBs ; which includes Lock . In the 8 years since Manning retired , Denver has played 12 QBs . For some reason Denver can't find or develop QBs with much success . Maybe Lock wasn't a failure , as much as Denver was the failure . Lock should get a fair and even chance to compete against Smith or a QB draft pick if that's who's in camp . If he busts out , then so be it . imo

This is where I'm at, get a 3rd for Geno, Geno goes to the right team and is what they need for 4 years, classic win-win. It's Lock vs Rookie 1st rounder. No 3rd stringer. All year long.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I think Pete's perspective was short term. He wasn't worrying about whether Lock might be better than Smith a year or two down the line. It was "win now because I'm old" mode.

Well, it might've been "win now because I like winning" instead, to be fair.

 

[Maelstrom787]

^
Why not give Lock a fair chance if he stays with the team ? Denver apparently sucks at developing QBs ; which includes Lock . In the 8 years since Manning retired , Denver has played 12 QBs . For some reason Denver can't find or develop QBs with much success . Maybe Lock wasn't a failure , as much as Denver was the failure . Lock should get a fair and even chance to compete against Smith or a QB draft pick if that's who's in camp . If he busts out , then so be it . imo

The fair chance is in camp. The fair chance is in the regular season games he's been provided. The fair chance has been provided by both trading for, and then re-signing him.

I don't know what you guys want with "fair chance." There was a camp competition, Lock was given first team reps, had an unlucky break with covid, an extremely bad showing against Dallas that preseason with multiple horrific throws, and then Geno took off in that regular season.

What is "a fair chance" in this case? It sounds more like "force a competition and give Lock a million breaks to try to push him over the line to supplant Geno" to me.

Unless the "fair chance" is just trading Geno, which we would be certifiably hilariously bad to do if the plan is just to hand Lock the job and sit on ass anyway.

 

[Ozzy]

The fair chance is in camp. The fair chance is in the regular season games he's been provided. The fair chance has been provided by both trading for, and then re-signing him.

I don't know what you guys want with "fair chance." There was a camp competition, Lock was given first team reps, had an unlucky break with covid, an extremely bad showing against Dallas that preseason with multiple horrific throws, and then Geno took off in that regular season.

What is "a fair chance" in this case? It sounds more like "force a competition and give Lock a million breaks to try to push him over the line to supplant Geno" to me.

Unless the "fair chance" is just trading Geno, which we would be certifiably hilariously bad to do if the plan is just to hand Lock the job and sit on ass anyway.

The only way they trade Geno or more likely cut him is if they want to draft a guy. I think.

 

[Maelstrom787]

The only way they trade Geno or more likely cut him is if they want to draft a guy. I think.

This.

If we're trading Geno, we better be getting a decent pick in return and also have a plan to snag the guy we want, and then we better have a plan to develop him outside of "throw him in and see what happens."

I get that existentially people ideally want to move in a different direction, but we can't blow up the team like a Madden rebuild. Starting Macdonalds tenure off in Seattle with the lowest season win percentage in 15 years isn't going to set his tenure up for success. Not with how quickly the less educated portion of the fanbase will turn on him.

 

[Double Tribble]

As I've said, JS needs to find "his guy" either this year or next because Geno is at best a short-term solution. He has time because we've got a cap issue that may take at least a year or two to sort out. Throwing an unknown starter into the mix like Drew Lock for a year is not ideal as you could be looking at a 2-15 season which would be bad for ticket sales and could get guys hurt with the message it sends that you may be throwing in the towel.

What makes you think that with a new updated system Geno wins less then he has the last two years?

Rookie QB's sometimes work out and sometimes they don't, it depends on the player. To definitively say it's not necessary to sit a rookie for a year of development is to ignore the facts.

https://theathletic.com/2830789/202...tting-a-historical-look-at-a-tricky-question/
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2021/...ck-ready-justin-fields-bears-trey-lance-49ers

Geno may not be elite but he is not "slightly above average". He's B tier not C tier.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/grades/position/qb

Geno is ranked about 15th. He is the exact definition of slightly above average. And while I'm not advocating starting Lock, he would certainly win more than two games. He beat the Eagles, and he would probably win as many games as Geno, guve or take.

 

[SeaWolv]

Geno is ranked about 15th. He is the exact definition of slightly above average. And while I'm not advocating starting Lock, he would certainly win more than two games. He beat the Eagles, and he would probably win as many games as Geno, guve or take.

According to PFF he's 9th, which is why I linked it in my post, that puts him well above average. I'm not saying he's A tier but he isn't C tier which is where I would put average QB's. There are lots of rankings out there but PFF does a lot of analysis to come up with their rankings as opposed to just using raw stats. They aren't perfect, no ranking is, but they are widely used for a reason.

 

[Double Tribble]

No way is he 9th best. That doesn't pass the eye and common sense test.

 

[SonicHawk]

No way is he 9th best. That doesn't pass the eye and common sense test.

 

[SonicHawk]

"I disagree with reality"

 

[SonicHawk]

Lock's after-game comments after that Eagles game he won are the best comments I've ever heard from a qb.

If only he paired that with competent and consistent NFL-level QB play!

 

[Hawknight]

Denver needs a QB!

You think we can persuade Denver to give up 3 of their nwxt three years 3rd rounds picks for Geno ?