Fix the lines that is the path forward

[nwHawk]

That is a common theme with the last few Super Bowl winners. Even if you do not have an heir apparent at QB like the Bucs, Rams and Eagles they fixed the lines first and eventually found a QB to put them over the top for SB wins. Even the Chiefs who were battered by the Bucs defense in the 2020 SB were forced to remake their OL and they have Mahomes at QB. That led them to more SB victories but they ran out of steam because their OL exposed them again in the 2024 SB like the 2020 SB.



Not saying that JS should go out and overpay for a guard in free agency but at the very least bringing in more talent at guard and pick the best to start after a competition while building that depth up. Panthers looked crazy for giving all that money to guards but Canales had the Panthers rolling toward the end of the season.

Panthers looked crazy for giving all that money to guards but Canales had the Panthers rolling toward the end of the season.

Canales is a QB coach. He knows a QB is going to play better if there is not pressure in his QB’s face and if the QB can confidently step up in the pocket to deliver the football.

JS seems to favor protecting the edges and desires a QB that can escape and create on the move outside of the pocket.

I hope John gives in and gets better interior offensive lineman.

 

[Rat]

The Eagles have phenomenal players all over, not just on the lines: Cooper DeJean, Quinyon Mitchell, Zach Baun, Saquon Barkley, AJ Brown, DeVonta Smith...

They all benefit from each other. Keep trying to get talent.

 

[Rat]

It should also be noted that the Chiefs have invested very heavily in their OL. They made Creed Humphrey the league's highest-paid center, they spent big money to bring in Joe Thuney, and they traded high picks for their bookends of Orlando Brown Jr and Juwan Taylor. They'll probably break the bank again to keep Trey Smith, who was an enormous steal in the draft for them. This notion in the first post of this topic that they've neglected their offensive line is plain wrong.

 

[Shane Falco]

That talent would be irrelevant if they had bottom third of the league lines.

 

[Rat]

That talent would be irrelevant if they had bottom third of the league lines.

Yes, the talent cant just be all in one place obviously.

 

[toffee]

To me 3rd round OL are 'draft and develop' guys. Not necessarily day 1 starters outside of the occasional surprise. So when you're line is bad to start with and you are relying on 3rd round picks or later, well that's not a good strategy. When the good teams have a weakness on the line, they take care of it in a bigger way. Either money or higher picks or even both.

This years all-pro, not probowl
Joe Thuney - 2016 / round: 3 / pick: 78
Quinn Meinerz - 2021 / round: 3 / pick: 98

2023:
Jason Kelce - 2011 / round: 6 / pick: 191

Sorry, our scouting sucked, we invested and invested our draft capital, without noticeable results.

 

[Shane Falco]

This years all-pro, not probowl

Joe Thuney - 2016 / round: 3 / pick: 78
Quinn Meinerz - 2021 / round: 3 / pick: 98

OK. What is your point? There are good players drafted in later rounds? If that's it, then I agree. That wasn't my point at all.

 

[chris98251]

Remember most O line play is want to effort, LT has a certain body type and skill set, the rest you are looking for attitude, want to, good feet and coachability and these days 300 pounds plus.

When you have so much passing going on running designed run plays and learning to pull and read defensive players is a skill that has been lost, it's probably why Cable liked looking at defensive lineman. Nasty O lineman are harder and harder to find, guys that enjoy knocking guys on their backside and can lead block on pulls.

 

[sutz]

Our heavily invested "Schneider Line" was built to be the second coming of "Hindenburg Line", although it performed more like "Maginot Line".

Our scouting department needs to be fired.

Point of historical order here. The Maginot line was never really tested, it was flanked and rendered irrelevant to the campaign. Seattle's O-line has been tested and found wanting. I'm not convinced it was all on player talent and ability and am looking forward to see what the new OC and coaches are bringing. That does NOT mean I am against drafting O-line, it is something we should do every year to the tune of at least 1 and probably 2 minimum to maintain the depth and keep players in the development stream.

 

[Seahawker]

Seattles main issue is that they are not great at offensive lineman scouting and development.

That’s enough of a reason to let them go.

We understand you cannot pick pro bowler lineman all the time and cannot pay a fortune for free agents every year, but what you do get are picks and coaching. You’ve got to hit on those at least half the time
if you want to be a good solid contender every year and Seattle has shown they just are not up to par….

These are the realities, Seattle’s offensive line talent evaluation for the past decade is not great….

A lot of truth and reality in this post.
If there is one area of team building JS has consistently tried to save $ on it is the offensive line. He has only drafted OT's high when he absolutely had to and the IOL prospects have been either bargain basement FA's or middle to late round picks. This also make you wonder who is identifying these players, scouts/coaches and how their grading system works. There is a scarcity of great O-linemen in college football these days and using some resource and striking when the iron is hot is important.
To have a QB like Geno, our stable of RB's and a new QB soon to be and to not fix this issue is negligence.
Isn't it bad enough to have watched Tom Cable try to convert DT's?, just look at how little attention OL has gotten and where our high picks have gone.

To make matters worse no one seems to know how Lucas' injury will effect him long term and his contract is soon up.
This draft seems to have 3 OT's ranked in the top 20 with a couple OG's on the outside looking in. Just seems like a prime situation for JS to miss out on starting talent once again.

At this point I would be happy to see them go OL in the 1st & 2nd and make our most expensive FA an OG. I am not saying gut who we have, but damn, add some real talent and carry an extra O-lineman or two on the roster.

Seems like we've been snake bit since Chris McIntosh.

 

[Shane Falco]

This years all-pro, not probowl
Joe Thuney - 2016 / round: 3 / pick: 78
Quinn Meinerz - 2021 / round: 3 / pick: 98

2023:
Jason Kelce - 2011 / round: 6 / pick: 191

Sorry, our scouting sucked, we invested and invested our draft capital, without noticeable results.

I didn't see the last part of your comment before. I agree our scouting department has sucked at finding late round quality starters. I just disagree on what constitutes a "heavy investment".

 

[Wsumatt1982]

The problem is you can't just go out and draft linemen really high and expect them not to struggle year 1. It's very rare. The people are giving JS this year for it to be fixed or move on but then want you to go draft someone high is unrealistic. Lose-Lose situation.

The O-line is all about continuity, something we haven't had for years through no fault of JS. The way to fix it will be sign a guard or a center then let the rest battle. Drafting high isn't going to help unless we sign a proven veteran (we all even saw how that worked out last year.)

That doesn't mean don't keep drafting guys to develop and if a top lineman falls to you in the draft and he is the best on your board, great. But we don't need to at all costs draft a lineman in the 1st or even 2nd because we need to let these guys play together.

 

[Shane Falco]

It's not uncommon for a team to fix an oline in a single offseason. The recurring problem under JS imo has been only addressing the oline when it becomes a dire need. Then the reluctance to spend money on the position group to help fix it so relying on the draft and putting himself in a position to have to reach for a fix and missing out on a potential better player at a different position.

I hope they add at least one significant oline FA before we get to this years draft.

 

[Wsumatt1982]

It's not uncommon for a team to fix an oline in a single offseason. The recurring problem under JS imo has been only addressing the oline when it becomes a dire need. Then the reluctance to spend money on the position group to help fix it so relying on the draft and putting himself in a position to have to reach for a fix and missing out on a potential better player at a different position.

I hope they add at least one significant oline FA before we get to this years draft.

They will. Seattle is JS's home and he wants to be here forever but he hears what the issue is. He has tried to address the line for a long time it's just never worked out. He is always drafting linemen but you can't say he hasn't tried to address it. He has. He should also know he needs to out and make a big splash in FA for once. I am confident he will.

 

[toffee]

Point of historical order here. The Maginot line was never really tested, it was flanked and rendered irrelevant to the campaign. Seattle's O-line has been tested and found wanting. I'm not convinced it was all on player talent and ability and am looking forward to see what the new OC and coaches are bringing. That does NOT mean I am against drafting O-line, it is something we should do every year to the tune of at least 1 and probably 2 minimum to maintain the depth and keep players in the development stream.

Looking from Paris, their LT sucked lol

 

[evergreen]

We need some one in the middle who is solid. Then the guard can be surrounded by competent players. It’s been said a million times but damn. We had a chance a stud center and went for a shiny object instead. Missing in those picks is like dropping passes and punting instead of scoring. Except it lasts for years.

 

[irfuben32]

I mean, I don't care how great Earl, Kam and Sherm were, they didn't start dominating until they got the pass rush rotation of Clemons, Avril and Bennett (along with Mebane and Clint McDonald)

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

They will. Seattle is JS's home and he wants to be here forever but he hears what the issue is. He has tried to address the line for a long time it's just never worked out. He is always drafting linemen but you can't say he hasn't tried to address it. He has. He should also know he needs to out and make a big splash in FA for once. I am confident he will.

You might be one of the few that has any kind of confidence in JS.

I’ll believe it when I see it happen.

Until then, the spotlight is on JS and his staff. If JS doesn’t get it done this season, it’s a wrap for Schneider.

Continual mediocrity, as Jody Allen, has now shown is not acceptable to her.

 

[Subzero717]

Our heavily invested "Schneider Line" was built to be the second coming of "Hindenburg Line", although it performed more like "Maginot Line".

Our scouting department needs to be fired.

That is and will be my biggest gripe. During JS's tenure we have obviously had a roster rotation, gone through multiple coordinators, fired a HOF HC. The one department that has had no disruption is the scouting/FO dept. When I say that, no one's really been fired, held accountable. It's been 14-15 years with some long stretch, abysmal middle and noting. We have had only a few well-respected guys leave in the very early years, McCloughan, Dodds, Nagy, Fitterer and really none of them were replaced with anyone of their stature. Only one of his Lieutenants in a decade and a half has been hired as a GM. The 49ers in almost half that span? Embarrassing. No different set of eyes, new take, fresh opinion. We have had a handful of guys stop by for a cup of coffee and "consult" Grigson, Ireland, Wolff, Highsmith but none hung around and it would seem never offered a real job of substance. Go through the bios of that dept. A lot of them are even holdovers from the Holgren era. Our Asst GM was an intern after the LOB was assembled. Congrats to him for working his way up but this is all he's know. One way. The JS way.

 

[Shane Falco]

In the last 5 drafts the Seahawks have spent the 15th highest draft capital on oline in the first 3 rounds going by draft pick trade value charts. So a little higher rate than average. I still wouldn't call that "heavily invested". Add in the fact that they were 31st in salary spending on the oline and the results are not surprising.