Film breakdown: How the Packers got away with constant holdi

[WilsonMVP]

Film breakdown: How the Packers got away with constant holding against Lions
http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2016/9/28 ... ns-packers

I dont know if any of you saw this article I just know we talk Packers somewhat on this forum and one of the main issues being getting away with holding. I hope when we play them the refs starting calling this crap and also stop calling DPI all the time for Rodgers. I think I read somewhere else the Packers have 4 of the 6 longest DPI in the league so far with their DPI yardage being what would be their #2 WR in yards

This article was also really good on insight about OLINE and blocking if anyone is interested

Lastly I think this just about sums up GBs Oline

 

[RichNhansom]

That's and excellent break down and no surprise the Packers are the team reaping the benefits. Why do you think the world caught on fire over the supposed Fail Mary?

 

[VivaEfrenHerrera]

Hey, that was a damn good read -- so good I've got to go back and go through it again. Excellent find!

 

[Cyrus12]

any game I have seen the Packers play in this year the holding by the o line has been awful and never called. Roger wants an Erin vs Tom super bowl this year...

 

[SeAhAwKeR4life]

It seems pretty clear to me, that Roger Goodell's reign as commish has been fraught with game influencing. Teams with bigger markets and big out of market fan bases get preferential treatment period. There's no way in hell this is unintentional. So far we have been burned by it a bit, but as the success of the Seahawks has grown, and our market has grown, so also has our out of market following, and we have been targeted slightly less. Not gonna say that the refs are rigging games, but they are influencing them, and clearly this is by design, it's not inadvertent. They are given instructions on what team to favor.

If Super Bowl XL wasn't evidence of my point, IDK what is. It just went so far out of hand that day, they had to scale back slightly, or it would have led to more scandal. Fact is, it's still happening as this article clearly shows.

God I long for the day Roger is no more.... :34853_doh:

 

[Sports Hernia]

I hate Rog Goodell and think he is a commish that has and wants "desired results", but XL*
wasn't under his watch. XL* was under Taglibooboo, and he and his henchmen in stripes were responsible for gift of XL* to the Rooney's.

I wish someone would do an article like this on the *allas O-line.

 

[RichNhansom]

It seems pretty clear to me, that Roger Goodell's reign as commish has been fraught with game influencing. Teams with bigger markets and big out of market fan bases get preferential treatment period. There's no way in hell this is unintentional. So far we have been burned by it a bit, but as the success of the Seahawks has grown, and our market has grown, so also has our out of market following, and we have been targeted slightly less. Not gonna say that the refs are rigging games, but they are influencing them, and clearly this is by design, it's not inadvertent. They are given instructions on what team to favor.

If Super Bowl XL wasn't evidence of my point, IDK what is. It just went so far out of hand that day, they had to scale back slightly, or it would have led to more scandal. Fact is, it's still happening as this article clearly shows.

God I long for the day Roger is no more.... :34853_doh:

Agree on several points.

A better example of even XL was a couple seasons ago when we led the league in penalties while simultaneously having opponents get one third less calls against when playing against us. That IMO came from officials looking so closely at every move a Seahawk player made that it caused or helped them not see anything our opponents were doing.

I call this playing up hill. The NFL is not truly fixing or scripting games but they are using the tools they have to make it tougher for better teams. The end result is a more competitive game which sells TV markets much better.

This is also in the scheduling. I know some don't think they could possibly manipulate the schedule but IMO again, that is just either Naive or refusal to see. They cannot dictate who or where you play but they can manipulate other things like when you play. Seahawks playing TNF away against our biggest opponent (an opponent with a much larger fan base at the time) multiple times when pretty much every measure had us as the consensus best team in football, is no accident. Playing 5 away 10am game vs the our opponent playing 2 for multiple years in a row that all coincide with the time frame we were pegged as the league elite. Back to back 10am games in the playoffs. No west coast team has ever had to do that before and no west coast team has ever won a single 10am start in a playoff game until we did this last year.

The one thing I don't think will matter is even if Goodell leaves the way the games are being officiated now will continue because of how much money it is bringing in. And for those that say there is no way you could get all those officials on board without it being caught, I agree but you don't need all the officials. You really only need a few head officials that are placed where the NFL feels they need them. That head official will tell his crew what they are watching for and likely even suggest which team is more likely to be doing it.

This IMO will eventually come out and put a huge black eye on the NFL but it will probably only serve to boost the NFL because there really is no such thing as bad publicity and once it surfaces people will believe that with the new information there team now has a chance to play on a level playing field. It's a win win for the NFL just like the Patriots constantly getting caught cheating. A little black eye but the fans keep coming and the owner makes a ton more money.

 

[Sports Hernia]

It seems pretty clear to me, that Roger Goodell's reign as commish has been fraught with game influencing. Teams with bigger markets and big out of market fan bases get preferential treatment period. There's no way in hell this is unintentional. So far we have been burned by it a bit, but as the success of the Seahawks has grown, and our market has grown, so also has our out of market following, and we have been targeted slightly less. Not gonna say that the refs are rigging games, but they are influencing them, and clearly this is by design, it's not inadvertent. They are given instructions on what team to favor.

If Super Bowl XL wasn't evidence of my point, IDK what is. It just went so far out of hand that day, they had to scale back slightly, or it would have led to more scandal. Fact is, it's still happening as this article clearly shows.

God I long for the day Roger is no more.... :34853_doh:

Agree on several points.

A better example of even XL was a couple seasons ago when we led the league in penalties while simultaneously having opponents get one third less calls against when playing against us. That IMO came from officials looking so closely at every move a Seahawk player made that it caused or helped them not see anything our opponents were doing.

I call this playing up hill. The NFL is not truly fixing or scripting games but they are using the tools they have to make it tougher for better teams. The end result is a more competitive game which sells TV markets much better.

This is also in the scheduling. I know some don't think they could possibly manipulate the schedule but IMO again, that is just either Naive or refusal to see. They cannot dictate who or where you play but they can manipulate other things like when you play. Seahawks playing TNF away against our biggest opponent (an opponent with a much larger fan base at the time) multiple times when pretty much every measure had us as the consensus best team in football, is no accident. Playing 5 away 10am game vs the our opponent playing 2 for multiple years in a row that all coincide with the time frame we were pegged as the league elite. Back to back 10am games in the playoffs. No west coast team has ever had to do that before and no west coast team has ever won a single 10am start in a playoff game until we did this last year.

The one thing I don't think will matter is even if Goodell leaves the way the games are being officiated now will continue because of how much money it is bringing in. And for those that say there is no way you could get all those officials on board without it being caught, I agree but you don't need all the officials. You really only need a few head officials that are placed where the NFL feels they need them. That head official will tell his crew what they are watching for and likely even suggest which team is more likely to be doing it.

This IMO will eventually come out and put a huge black eye on the NFL but it will probably only serve to boost the NFL because there really is no such thing as bad publicity and once it surfaces people will believe that with the new information there team now has a chance to play on a level playing field. It's a win win for the NFL just like the Patriots constantly getting caught cheating. A little black eye but the fans keep coming and the owner makes a ton more money.

What you just described is called "steering". I first noticed it in the NFC Championship game against Carolina in the XL* year when the Hawks were destroying the panthers. Steve Smith had a punt return for a TD that was sprung by 2 obvious blocks in the back. Funny thing was one of the zebras saw it and threw a flag, the refs huddled, had a discussion, and decided what they saw and threw a flag for just didn't happen.

I remember Bryce Fisher talking about it, saying to Grant Wistrom how that was a blantant attempt to keep the Panthers in the game.

Even the glorious game that was XLVIII had some "elements of steering" in it at the very beginning, with the spot that was challenged by Pete where Russ obviously crossed the marker on the sideline for the first
down, and their were a couple of bogus holding calls on the O-line. How you beat "steering" is get out to an early big lead like they did in XLVIII and last week. The longer the other team is in the game the more opportunity to steer to a
"league desired result" there is.

 

[RichNhansom]

It seems pretty clear to me, that Roger Goodell's reign as commish has been fraught with game influencing. Teams with bigger markets and big out of market fan bases get preferential treatment period. There's no way in hell this is unintentional. So far we have been burned by it a bit, but as the success of the Seahawks has grown, and our market has grown, so also has our out of market following, and we have been targeted slightly less. Not gonna say that the refs are rigging games, but they are influencing them, and clearly this is by design, it's not inadvertent. They are given instructions on what team to favor.

If Super Bowl XL wasn't evidence of my point, IDK what is. It just went so far out of hand that day, they had to scale back slightly, or it would have led to more scandal. Fact is, it's still happening as this article clearly shows.

God I long for the day Roger is no more.... :34853_doh:

Agree on several points.

A better example of even XL was a couple seasons ago when we led the league in penalties while simultaneously having opponents get one third less calls against when playing against us. That IMO came from officials looking so closely at every move a Seahawk player made that it caused or helped them not see anything our opponents were doing.

I call this playing up hill. The NFL is not truly fixing or scripting games but they are using the tools they have to make it tougher for better teams. The end result is a more competitive game which sells TV markets much better.

This is also in the scheduling. I know some don't think they could possibly manipulate the schedule but IMO again, that is just either Naive or refusal to see. They cannot dictate who or where you play but they can manipulate other things like when you play. Seahawks playing TNF away against our biggest opponent (an opponent with a much larger fan base at the time) multiple times when pretty much every measure had us as the consensus best team in football, is no accident. Playing 5 away 10am game vs the our opponent playing 2 for multiple years in a row that all coincide with the time frame we were pegged as the league elite. Back to back 10am games in the playoffs. No west coast team has ever had to do that before and no west coast team has ever won a single 10am start in a playoff game until we did this last year.

The one thing I don't think will matter is even if Goodell leaves the way the games are being officiated now will continue because of how much money it is bringing in. And for those that say there is no way you could get all those officials on board without it being caught, I agree but you don't need all the officials. You really only need a few head officials that are placed where the NFL feels they need them. That head official will tell his crew what they are watching for and likely even suggest which team is more likely to be doing it.

This IMO will eventually come out and put a huge black eye on the NFL but it will probably only serve to boost the NFL because there really is no such thing as bad publicity and once it surfaces people will believe that with the new information there team now has a chance to play on a level playing field. It's a win win for the NFL just like the Patriots constantly getting caught cheating. A little black eye but the fans keep coming and the owner makes a ton more money.

What you just described is called "steering". I first noticed it in the NFC Championship game against Carolina in the XL* year when the Hawks were destroying the panthers. Steve Smith had a punt return for a TD that was sprung by 2 obvious blocks in the back. Funny thing was one of the zebras saw it and threw a flag, the refs huddled, had a discussion, and decided what they saw and threw a flag for just didn't happen.

I remember Bryce Fisher talking about it, saying to Grant Wistrom how that was a blantant attempt to keep the Panthers in the game.

Even the glorious game that was XLVIII had some "elements of steering" in it at the very beginning, with the spot that was challenged by Pete where Russ obviously crossed the marker on the sideline for the first
down, and their were a couple of bogus holding calls on the O-line. How you beat "steering" is get out to an early big lead like they did in XLVIII and last week. The longer the other team is in the game the more opportunity to steer to a
"league desired result" there is.

I remember the Carolina playoff game and the flag being picked up but I remember it more as a mercy pick up than a steering pick up. IIRC it was very late in the game when really the score just served to make the game look more respectable, I could be wrong though, it has been a couple weeks.

Another thought on the early big lead would be the opposite and maintain a ball control offense and a defense that allows for short under while not giving up the big play.

Most steering happens early in the game as an attempt to keep the score close at half time so viewers don't change the channel. So while it is great to get out to a big lead, the difficulty in the face of flag fest makes it near impossible. Remember your opponent still has fresh legs early on.

Keeping the game close and under control early while the ref's exhaust their flags and the opponent is still fresh gives you the opportunity in the second half to change up your game plan and catching a less fresh defense off guard. I wonder if that has something to do with how we always seem to start so slow.

 

[Hawks46]

I won't say this as a homer fan, but what I have noticed that in games where the refs are throwing a lot of flags in the first half, the 2nd half always seems to have far less flags, and the same infractions and borderline calls aren't made/called.

It makes for an inconsistent game, and we get frustrated as the same calls aren't the same within the game and with the same officiating crew.

It's almost like the NFL tells the refs to not take over a game too much at halftime.

 

[RichNhansom]

I won't say this as a homer fan, but what I have noticed that in games where the refs are throwing a lot of flags in the first half, the 2nd half always seems to have far less flags, and the same infractions and borderline calls aren't made/called.

It makes for an inconsistent game, and we get frustrated as the same calls aren't the same within the game and with the same officiating crew.

It's almost like the NFL tells the refs to not take over a game too much at halftime.

Which is why I wonder if part of Pete's plan is to slow play the early game to keep it close and manageable while not showing DC's how to beat us in the 2nd half. Essentially not wasting big plays that will very possibly be called back. We do seem to have a different game plan for the 2nd half every week.

Come out the 2nd half with a different game plan, after the ref's have exhausted they're flag fest and the opponents D is a little more gassed and then open things up.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

RichNHansom: not to be a dick, but I think your recollection of the blatant block in the back on the Steve Smith punt return is incorrect. IIRC (and I might not), it was later in the first half after the Seahawks had taken a 17-0 lead. Like you, I believed at the time, and still do, that it was an attempt to keep Carolina in the game. I do know the block in the back was particularly egregious because I was at the game and it happened right in front of my section.

 

[RichNhansom]

RichNHansom: not to be a dick, but I think your recollection of the blatant block in the back on the Steve Smith punt return is incorrect. IIRC (and I might not), it was later in the first half after the Seahawks had taken a 17-0 lead. Like you, I believed at the time, and still do, that it was an attempt to keep Carolina in the game. I do know the block in the back was particularly egregious because I was at the game and it happened right in front of my section.

I'm sure your correct. I have been accused of forgetting where I put my memory. Which is crazy because I don't remember forgetting anything.

I also have no doubt about the legitimacy of the original call. I remember it being blatantly obvious the reason they picked up the flag and it had nothing to do with whether the infraction actually happened or not.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

RichNHansom: not to be a dick, but I think your recollection of the blatant block in the back on the Steve Smith punt return is incorrect. IIRC (and I might not), it was later in the first half after the Seahawks had taken a 17-0 lead. Like you, I believed at the time, and still do, that it was an attempt to keep Carolina in the game. I do know the block in the back was particularly egregious because I was at the game and it happened right in front of my section.

I have been accused of forgetting where I put my memory. Which is crazy because I don't remember forgetting anything.......

I literally LOL'd. I'm gonna use it for my sig line for a while. VERY funny man!

 

[WilsonMVP]

In addition to holding Nelson loves to push off too. Anyone see that first TD...how the F is that not called OPI...... just :roll: ...yet we would get called for that crap

 

[Hawk-Lock]

That wasn't OPI by Nelson. Unfortunately, OPI and DPI aren't officiated equally. that push off happens on so many routes.

 

[WilsonMVP]

That wasn't OPI by Nelson. Unfortunately, OPI and DPI aren't officiated equally. that push off happens on so many routes.

By rule I am pretty sure its OPI when you have your arm fully out and push and then go the other way ...shocked they didnt call DPI like they did on Sherman haha

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

That wasn't OPI by Nelson. Unfortunately, OPI and DPI aren't officiated equally. that push off happens on so many routes.

Yeah that WR push off is only called OPI if it's Darrell Jackson in a Super Bowl and the guy calling it is born, raised and still resides in the city of Jackson's team's opponent.