D'wayne Eskridge

AgentDib

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Why/How have the Whiners found Deebo, Kittle and Aiyuk... and we end up drafting the likes of Eskridge, Freddie Swain and Colby Parkinson???

What are we missing?
Comparing one team's hits to another team's misses isn't meaningful, and you could do the same thing with our hits and their misses if you wanted to.

For example, from the last couple of years: Why/How have the Seahawks found Woolen, Cross, Walker, Lucas, Bryant, Mafe, Lewis, and Metcalf... and the 49ers end up drafting the likes of Trey Lance, Zakelj, Davis, Castro-Fields, Gray, Sermon, Moore, McKivitz, Woerner and Jennings???

Every team has hits and busts and if you want to do an honest comparison of draft ability you need to look at total hits as a function of draft capital. That's what matters.
 

AgentDib

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I don’t know why the team thought Eskridge was a good pick when they had at that time huge liabilities elsewhere they could have used the pick on.
These discussions are interesting to me because I see this completely opposite to you. Slot WR is a very valuable position in the NFL and we didn't have one at all. Meanwhile we did have a center we had drafted in the second round previously and a lot of people are upset we didn't take a second one instead. If you want to criticize with the benefit of hindsight then it's more reasonable IMO to say Eskridge was the result of reaching for need rather than taking a higher rated prospect at a position we already had.

In reality Eskridge was probably a fine pick who just hasn't panned out; much like the countless other draft picks who fail to pan out every year. The much more interesting question is what the Seahawks do going forwards with the information we have now. I doubt JSN would be there at 20, but if so would they try again or do people in the building still think that Eskridge could develop further?
 

TheLegendOfBoom

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These discussions are interesting to me because I see this completely opposite to you. Slot WR is a very valuable position in the NFL and we didn't have one at all. Meanwhile we did have a center we had drafted in the second round previously and a lot of people are upset we didn't take a second one instead. If you want to criticize with the benefit of hindsight then it's more reasonable IMO to say Eskridge was the result of reaching for need rather than taking a higher rated prospect at a position we already had.

In reality Eskridge was probably a fine pick who just hasn't panned out; much like the countless other draft picks who fail to pan out every year. The much more interesting question is what the Seahawks do going forwards with the information we have now. I doubt JSN would be there at 20, but if so would they try again or do people in the building still think that Eskridge could develop further?
Well, let’s really consider the slot receiver for Seattle and it’s importance.

Seattle, has been generally viewed as a run first and play defense. At this time, Seattle’s receivers are Metcalf and Lockett, and the plan is to include Eskridge in the slot.

However, Eskridge, was a high pick for Seattle. You would have a high pick used on Eskridge, but simultaneously, your ball distribution rate does not (should not) warrant a high pick on receiver that has to share the ball between Metcalf and Lockett in which Seattle is a run first team.

It’s not a bad idea to draft a potential slot guy but it is a bad decision to use a high draft pick on a player that will not see the ball as often as Metcalf and Lockett, and you should include the touches the RBs get cause they are the Seattle offense.

Another reason why I consider Eskridge a luxury pick. He’s not going to touch the ball a lot and for the price you pay for him, to me, it doesn’t match the touches.

Like even this year, Seattle, could draft a slot guy, I just hope, it’s not so early. Cause the targets and touches should be closer to where the player gets drafted to get the most value IMO, especially, when Seattle desperately needs immediate defensive front 7 help!
 

AgentDib

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I just don't see it as the question of ball distribution it would be if this was the NBA or MLS. That's because adding weapons to an NFL offense scales far better. The offense gets to choose who to target on a given play - after the play is in motion and the QB sees how the defense reacted and covered. Kittle only had 4.2 targets per game last season, but was a key part of the 49ers passing offense because of how defenses still had to react to him on all the plays where he wasn't targeted. Similarly, a good slot WR alongside Metcalf and Lockett makes all three of them more dangerous.

Consider the following two options, using Humphrey simply so we're staying on the offensive side of the ball for simplicity.
Option A: 2022 roster with Creed Humphrey at C instead of Blythe
Option B: 2022 roster with Justin Jefferson at slot WR instead of Eskridge

I submit that if you were a defensive coordinator you wouldn't care that much about the switch to option A, but you would lose much sleep over the switch to option B. As a DC you would never think "well, they'll want to throw to Metcalf and Lockett, so we don't need to worry about Jefferson." That's because Geno will have multiple options at the top of his drop back and can choose the one who looks open. More weapons leads to more production in the NFL as a result.

Moreover, you may look at option B and find that it seems unfair to throw in a superstar like Jefferson. But that's how valuable slot WRs can be, and the problem with Eskridge is that he has been a bust so far, not that he isn't playing a valuable position. It's easy to mix those two things up, but if Eskridge was achieving anywhere near his potential then the selection would be overwhelmingly praised.

I do think that offensive investment vs. defense investment is a slightly different topic, and agree with you that the defense needs more work overall than the offense does and we should invest there significantly this off-season. Of course we do have a lot of picks and the defensive depth is very good through day 2 and early day 3. Taking a slot WR like JSN at #20 or Flowers at #37 wouldn't preclude heavily addressing our front seven.
 

Cyrus12

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Really hoping they get a decent number 3 guy. Eskridge is a bust...This is his last year to do anything.
 

Jville

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I'm not giving up on him just because he is off to a rough start.

This year is another opportunity to compete.
 

FrodosFinger

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It’s his make it or break it year. He’s had a few splash plays but if he wants a job he needs to produce. I don’t care about his potential I care about his availability
 

bhamhawk

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Thus far, Eskridge is JAG.

Why/How have the Whiners found Deebo, Kittle and Aiyuk... and we end up drafting the likes of Eskridge, Freddie Swain and Colby Parkinson???

What are we missing?
If it makes you feel better, JS was making a move for Kittle just the 9ers snagged him.
 

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GemCity

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Wait. Word on the street was that the Rams “we’re looking” at Eskridge but, we beat them to the punch!

/MissionAccomplished.

P.S.
Creed
 

Hockey Guy

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I'm still cheering for the guy to stay/get healthy & have a great 2023 season for us.

It's a shame he got a terrible concussion on his very 1st touch in the NFL.
 

DJ_CJ

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I'm still cheering for the guy to stay/get healthy & have a great 2023 season for us.

It's a shame he got a terrible concussion on his very 1st touch in the NFL.
Exactly. The explosion and extra gear was shown on that first unfortunately ended with a awful concussion that set him back.
 

Lagartixa

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These discussions are interesting to me because I see this completely opposite to you. Slot WR is a very valuable position in the NFL and we didn't have one at all. Meanwhile we did have a center we had drafted in the second round previously and a lot of people are upset we didn't take a second one instead. If you want to criticize with the benefit of hindsight then it's more reasonable IMO to say Eskridge was the result of reaching for need rather than taking a higher rated prospect at a position we already had.

In reality Eskridge was probably a fine pick who just hasn't panned out; much like the countless other draft picks who fail to pan out every year. The much more interesting question is what the Seahawks do going forwards with the information we have now. I doubt JSN would be there at 20, but if so would they try again or do people in the building still think that Eskridge could develop further?

That's an interesting point, and one that hadn't occurred to me, even though there are other cases where I think the process was good, even if the specific outcome wasn't.

To me, the clearest example of a Seahawks pick that didn't work out, but that I think was a good pick because the process behind it was good, was when the Seahawks picked Penny with Nick Chubb still available. This is one the anti-Carroll, anti-Schneider crowd loves to point out as malpractice, but I consider it a completely correct choice.
The Seahawks stated explicitly that the reason they chose Penny over Chubb was because Penny had a much-cleaner injury history in college. Chubb's entire left knee had exploded in college, with dislocation, cartilage damage, and tears of the ACL, MCL, and PCL. Penny didn't have any major injuries in college.

The best tool humanity has for dealing with uncertainty is probability theory. The best practices in, say, choosing players to draft can only improve the probability of getting a productive player and reduce the probability of getting an injury-prone player.
One specific outcome (e.g., Penny having major injury issues through his entire NFL career, while Chubb has had fewer) does not invalidate the process. That's not how you measure the quality of probabilistic projections (well, not how you should, anyway). The way to measure these things requires making actual probabilistic predictions, like weather reports, which tell you the estimated probability of, for example, rain tomorrow. I'd be willing to bet NFL teams' analytics departments make such predictions (e.g., their best guesses at the probabilities of a given player suffering a major injury in his first season, first two seasons, first three seasons, first four seasons) and keep records of them. Then, after a number of that kind of predictions have been made, break them down into ranges of probabilities. The kind of question to ask when evaluating probabilistic predictions is something along the lines of, say, "when we said a major injury was between 30% and 40% likely to happen in a given time period, how often did it happen?" If it turns out the outcome (major injury) happened much less or much more than 30-40% of the times you said that outcome had a chance of occurring that was between 30% and 40%, that suggests there may be problems in the part of the process in which probabilities are estimated.

This is why it drives me nuts when mediots say things about Nate Silver's election forecasts like "he got all 50 states right in the 2008 presidential election" or "he got 49 of 50 states right in 2012." Even if Silver had said, for example, that McCain had a 2% chance of winning Vermont, and then McCain lost Vermont (or, say, that McCain had a 99% chance of winning Kentucky, and then McCain won Kentucky), that doesn't make it a "correct" projection. To Silver's credit, he knows the right way to evaluate probabilistic predictions, and I'm sure fivethirtyeight evaluates the quality of its projections in the correct relative-frequency-better-be-close-to-our-projected-probability way.
 

BASF

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Until someone can come up with a tweet from Creed saying differently, I believe he didn't want to play for the Seahawks.

Edit to add, as I have pointed out, Pocic is no where near as bad as the Me3 Marks who were baying for Creed and continue to harp on this made him out to be.
 
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getnasty

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Thus far, Eskridge is JAG.

Why/How have the Whiners found Deebo, Kittle and Aiyuk... and we end up drafting the likes of Eskridge, Freddie Swain and Colby Parkinson???

What are we missing?
So your not going to count Metcalf and Lockett? It also helps when your a dumpster fire for a few years and pick at the beginning of every round.
 

BASF

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Seattle is a run first team.


Another reason why I consider Eskridge a luxury pick. He’s not going to touch the ball a lot and for the price you pay for him, to me, it doesn’t match the touches.
Seattle has not been a run first team since Me3 got his way early in 2019 with the Let Russ Cook campaign, which did not get us any more playoff wins than being a run first team. That was three years ago. Three years is a long time in NFL terms for not being a run first team.

Let's not pretend that a late second round pick is a "for the price you pay for him" pick. Hell, most draftniks don't consider six picks before the second round to be a true first rounder, so why would anyone consider six picks before the third round to be a high pick? A lot of the draftniks say, "Well he was pick twenty-six, he was practically a second rounder."
 
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