Does Wilson's height affect our ability to run HB screens?

[Ad Hawk]

If anyone does do the research, could they please forward them to Bevell please?

My guess is that he already knows and that's why he keeps calling them.

Without stats to back it up, you all can take that however you wish. :snack:

 

[Smellyman]

no

Has huge issues with high cupboards though.

 

[RiverDog]

I heard Holmgren on 950 last year talking about the RB screen. He was saying that you need to commit a lot of time in practice to get it down well, and many teams just don't spend the time. Especially with the more limited practice times they are dealing with nowadays.

I would imagine that the turnover we've had on the offensive line has something to do with this as well.

 

[semiahmoo]

It's not a matter of if Wilson's heights affects it. Wilson's height affects just about every throw less than 20-25 yards down the field.

Geometry dictates as much.


I know it's hard to admit for some, but it's one of the biggest reasons for his accuracy issues on slants and shallow crosses as well. Now, is that sometimes negated by passing windows and timing? Yes. Do the pros still outweigh the cons? Absolutely.

It is what it is though and I'm sure folks will argue against high school level mathematics like geometry for the sake of faith and belief.

Absolutely right. RW's somewhat limited in the little 10-20 yard routes. Has trouble seeing over both lines.

His speed has overcome that deficiency to a large degree, but when hobbled or as he ages, that deficiency has and will loom large.

 

[UK_Seahawk]

Show me the STATS!!!!!

That's a generalization and opinion which can biased based on your love for the OC and not subjective.

Hang on. You say something that is anecdotal and based on memory and then ignore the request for stats. Someone retorts using the same unscientific method and you whine about stats? Hypocrisy much?

 

[chris98251]

Show me the STATS!!!!!

That's a generalization and opinion which can biased based on your love for the OC and not subjective.

Hang on. You say something that is anecdotal and based on memory and then ignore the request for stats. Someone retorts using the same unscientific method and you whine about stats? Hypocrisy much?

You don't get sarcasm do you?

 

[Seymour]

It's not a matter of if Wilson's heights affects it. Wilson's height affects just about every throw less than 20-25 yards down the field.

Geometry dictates as much.


I know it's hard to admit for some, but it's one of the biggest reasons for his accuracy issues on slants and shallow crosses as well. Now, is that sometimes negated by passing windows and timing? Yes. Do the pros still outweigh the cons? Absolutely.

It is what it is though and I'm sure folks will argue against high school level mathematics like geometry for the sake of faith and belief.

Absolutely right. RW's somewhat limited in the little 10-20 yard routes. Has trouble seeing over both lines.

His speed has overcome that deficiency to a large degree, but when hobbled or as he ages, that deficiency has and will loom large.

You completely missed his point. This is not a point being made about his vision. It was about the path from his release point to his target, and the geometry issue that "could be" an issue throwing over linemen. Wilson's release point is the same as a person 6'2" to 6'3" because of hand size, arm length, and high arcing throwing motion which kills the point.

Don’t overlook Wilson’s other assets. His hands measure 10.25 inches from the tip of his pinky to thumb, which is actually bigger than Arizona State’s Brock Osweiler, who stands 6-7 and was chosen by Denver in the second round.
And in terms of delivery, Wilson comes over the top, his release point much higher than most.
“He probably releases the ball higher than some guys 6-2 or 6-3,” Bielema said.
Except Wilson is not quite 5-11.
“It’s been an issue all along for him since he was a little kid,” Carroll said the night Seattle drafted Wilson. “He’s always been the smaller guy.”
But Wilson has always made up for that with the size of his arm.

http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/tall-task-for-seahawks-quarterback-russell-wilson/

 

[Seymour]

Our Bubble screens are failures about 70 percent of the time, if we got 5 plus yards a crack it would be one thing, but typically we have a guy that isn't the best at acceleration or nobody to make a wedge for him to get past the first wave, seems like most are no gain or losses.

It may give the defense another aspect top prepare for, but they never break anything open and or long so the defenses have this scouted well.

Any stats to back this up?

I will back it up. It may have gone down to 65% since Bryan Walters left, but rarely do we see a 5+ yard gain from my observation.

My observations are the opposite. We routinely gain that much. Bevell has gotten better at throwing to the right guys (Lockett and Baldwin), and our experience has grown.

I will admit that last year it improved some. I'm judging more based on overall the last 5. If the trend continues, (as it should with Prosis and Lockett) I will drop the Bevell bubble rhetoric. :2thumbs:

 

[mrt144]

It's not a matter of if Wilson's heights affects it. Wilson's height affects just about every throw less than 20-25 yards down the field.

Geometry dictates as much.


I know it's hard to admit for some, but it's one of the biggest reasons for his accuracy issues on slants and shallow crosses as well. Now, is that sometimes negated by passing windows and timing? Yes. Do the pros still outweigh the cons? Absolutely.

It is what it is though and I'm sure folks will argue against high school level mathematics like geometry for the sake of faith and belief.

It'd be easier to argue against a proof if a proof was actually shown, rather than alluded to, in 3 dimensional space.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

Geometry? Proofs?
What next...calculator and rulers?

Can we just have video footage where his height was a detriment to screen play? Pretty please..

I recall Wilson lobbing the short pass over DEs and firing to bubble screens easily.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

This forum is full of funny logic.

Wilson is the shortest player so assume he's got a small one...but lo and behold what a big10-inch hand and long arms you have Mr Wilson!

 

[Hawks46]

Not at all.

Teams tend to either run RB screens or bubble screens with their WRs. The Hawks run a TON of bubble screens.

The upside of the RB screen is you're using misdirection to get the ball out into potential space, with lineman and hopefully secondary defenders being out of position due to the trickery.

The benefit of the bubble screen is that you're using the speed of the play to get the ball out into potential space, with lineman and secondary defenders out of position because they don't have time to react to it.

Upsides of the bubble is there's no chance of your QB getting clobbered, it's much less likely for the play to result in no yards at all, it's a great little easy play to get your QB in rhythm, and the turnover risk is lower. Upside of the RB screen is there's more chance of a bug chunk play when it goes right.

Basically though, it's two offensive ways to skin the same cat. I think the Seahawks would be using bubbles regardless of who their QB is.

Nailed it.

Plus, for whatever reason, we're just not good at RB screens. Either our RB's don't do well at it, our OL doesn't sell it well, or it's called at bad times.

Bubble screens are always good for at least a couple of yards, and we have good blocking WR's so typically we get more.

 

[mrt144]

Not at all.

Teams tend to either run RB screens or bubble screens with their WRs. The Hawks run a TON of bubble screens.

The upside of the RB screen is you're using misdirection to get the ball out into potential space, with lineman and hopefully secondary defenders being out of position due to the trickery.

The benefit of the bubble screen is that you're using the speed of the play to get the ball out into potential space, with lineman and secondary defenders out of position because they don't have time to react to it.

Upsides of the bubble is there's no chance of your QB getting clobbered, it's much less likely for the play to result in no yards at all, it's a great little easy play to get your QB in rhythm, and the turnover risk is lower. Upside of the RB screen is there's more chance of a bug chunk play when it goes right.

Basically though, it's two offensive ways to skin the same cat. I think the Seahawks would be using bubbles regardless of who their QB is.

Nailed it.

Plus, for whatever reason, we're just not good at RB screens. Either our RB's don't do well at it, our OL doesn't sell it well, or it's called at bad times.

Bubble screens are always good for at least a couple of yards, and we have good blocking WR's so typically we get more.

If it's a years long tactical choice, there's no way they would be good at them this point. If you don't practice them in lieu of a viable alternative, you won't call them or get sufficiently good at them to merit it.

 

[Hawknballs]

when a 6'4" lineman is running at you it doesn't matter if you're russell wilson or tom brady, you can't toss a football through the reach of a corporeal human being.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

but...but...it's Wilson, so it's magically different and not ok :roll:

 

[Hawks46]

Our Bubble screens are failures about 70 percent of the time, if we got 5 plus yards a crack it would be one thing, but typically we have a guy that isn't the best at acceleration or nobody to make a wedge for him to get past the first wave, seems like most are no gain or losses.

It may give the defense another aspect top prepare for, but they never break anything open and or long so the defenses have this scouted well.

Any stats to back this up?

I will back it up. It may have gone down to 65% since Bryan Walters left, but rarely do we see a 5+ yard gain from my observation.

My observations are the opposite. We routinely gain that much. Bevell has gotten better at throwing to the right guys (Lockett and Baldwin), and our experience has grown.

My observations mirror Montana's on this. Baldwin routinely gets 4-5 yards on bubble screens.