Do you want to draft a QB in 1st?

[Maelstrom787]

I've wanted us to draft a center in the 2nd round for a long time. Ever since we traded away Max Unger, the position has been in flux and not properly addressed. We had the perfect opportunity to do so in 2021 when Creed Humphrey was available, but we burned it reaching for a WR. Last year, J. Michael Schimdt was available at our #2 but we passed him by and instead took another running back. Both Humphrey and Schmidt are starters for their teams. Neither Eskridge or Charbonnet start for us.

This season, we signed a guard, Evan Brown, who had never won a starting position outright in 5 seasons while playing for 4 different teams and patched him into our starting lineup. Brown has consistently been ranked as one of the lowest performing centers in the league. It was the same story in 2022 when we signed a center, Austin Blythe, who had been rejected by one of our division rivals. Much like Brown, Blythe performed poorly.

Pete has always had a blind spot when it comes to the offensive line. He feels that he can get away with compromising on the positions, turn tackles into guards and guards into centers, use his capital in other areas. To be fair, he did use a #1 and a #3 to draft two OT's in 2022, but for the most part, the OL has been ignored, and we're paying for it now. After 16 games, despite having two relatively healthy and by all accounts decent running backs, we're ranked just 29th in rushing production.

The counter-argument is that center is a position which rarely requires premium draft investment to nail down a good starter, and that Schmitz is a good example of that over-investment strategy not working out.

Evan Brown had played center in the NFL before, so I don't like categorizing him solely as a guard. His best graded play by far had been as a relief center with Detroit. Obviously, he did not beat out the possible best center in the league, Frank Ragnow, for the job.

I'm glad they didn't take Schmitz. He's had a really bad year for New York. We would've been spending a second rounder for bad play. I'd rather spend a fifth on a promising backup and pretty much nothing on Evan. They did miss on Creed, but the rest of the league sure as hell did too.

I'd honestly rather them keep trying mid-rounders and non-premium signings at center than start throwing big resources at it. That would work better with a better OL coach.

The MO here has been that tackle is the premium spot that requires investment, which is generally how the rest of the league thinks. The IOL is always cheaper and always easier to obtain starters with small investments. We're just following the market, really.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Best way to emphasize better line play is going to be canning our current offensive coaches and hiring guys with a specific track record in that area.

 

[Ozzy]

Our second rounder was Hall though who can’t make the field on the leagues worst defense. You’re going to miss sometimes and you’re going to hit. They’ve just under valued the line for a long time. The tackles were a move in the right direction though so hopefully it’s a shift they continue with.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Our second rounder was Hall though who can’t make the field on the leagues worst defense. You’re going to miss sometimes and you’re going to hit. They’ve just under valued the line for a long time. The tackles were a move in the right direction though so hopefully it’s a shift they continue with.

You're definitely going to miss sometimes, but just as far as league track record goes with drafted centers, there's usually only 2 or 3 drafted in the first two rounds of any draft and the success rate of those centers is spotty. A ridiculous amount of them ended up converting to other spots anyway.

It's just a really niche position in which you can nail a good one down anywhere in the draft if we look at the where the best ones were drafted. It's going to come down to coaching regardless.

 

[RiverDog]

The counter-argument is that center is a position which rarely requires premium draft investment to nail down a good starter, and that Schmitz is a good example of that over-investment strategy not working out.

Evan Brown had played center in the NFL before, so I don't like categorizing him solely as a guard. His best graded play by far had been as a relief center with Detroit. Obviously, he did not beat out the possible best center in the league, Frank Ragnow, for the job.

I'm glad they didn't take Schmitz. He's had a really bad year for New York. We would've been spending a second rounder for bad play. I'd rather spend a fifth on a promising backup and pretty much nothing on Evan. They did miss on Creed, but the rest of the league sure as hell did too.

I'd honestly rather them keep trying mid-rounders and non-premium signings at center than start throwing big resources at it. That would work better with a better OL coach.

The MO here has been that tackle is the premium spot that requires investment, which is generally how the rest of the league thinks. The IOL is always cheaper and always easier to obtain starters with small investments. We're just following the market, really.

What you say about centers is true, which is why I wouldn't support burning a #1 pick on one. But there are a lot of them that go in the 2nd round.

Creed didn't drop very far past our slot, and given that we both understand that centers are seldom taken with a first round pick, it's inaccurate to say that everyone missed on him.

You're right, Schmidt is having a bad year, so maybe it was a good thing that we passed on him. On the other hand, it's only his first season so the jury is still out. My point isn't that we missed on him, but that we aren't dedicating any kind of draft capital to the position, that we're not serious about addressing what is obviously a glaring weakness.

Evan Brown had played some center, but for most of his career, he was a guard. He never earned a starting job at either position, in other words, was never the starter on opening day, but rather started via injury. He'd bounced around the league for 5 years, including a couple of stints on practice squads and never with a true contender (Giants, Browns, Dolphins, and Lions) and was released 3 times by those bottom feeding teams. To say that he was a journeyman is an overstatement of his career.

 

[Ozzy]

Yeah even Cross who was taken high first has been all over the place. Lineman take time.

I don’t think you’re wrong it’s just a tough situation because almost every pundit, draft site, fan etc wanted them to pick Creed and they didn’t. A lot of draft narrative is dumb because we have the benefit of hindsight but the Creed one really was a situation that everyone else was right but Pete/John.

So basically I’m probably not being fair because I’m biased and still pissed they made that choice it was just one of many terrible decisions during a 6 year period where they flat out drafted bad. My theory and some leaks have supported it, is that the dual management of Pete and John was just a bad idea for drafting. Scouts leaked that they would have the pick and Pete would override it which lead to some of our horrific busts. This is all rumor but it sure fits what we saw in some ways.

Just one of many reasons I love Pete and would love to sit and talk football with him but also have been ready to move on from him for years. I’m just done with Pete.

 

[RiverDog]

Yeah even Cross who was taken high first has been all over the place. Lineman take time.

I don’t think you’re wrong it’s just a tough situation because almost every pundit, draft site, fan etc wanted them to pick Creed and they didn’t. A lot of draft narrative is dumb because we have the benefit of hindsight but the Creed one really was a situation that everyone else was right but Pete/John.

So basically I’m probably not being fair because I’m biased and still pissed they made that choice it was just one of many terrible decisions during a 6 year period where they flat out drafted bad. My theory and some leaks have supported it, is that the dual management of Pete and John was just a bad idea for drafting. Scouts leaked that they would have the pick and Pete would override it which lead to some of our horrific busts. This is all rumor but it sure fits what we saw in some ways.

Just one of many reasons I love Pete and would love to sit and talk football with him but also have been ready to move on from him for years. I’m just done with Pete.

Good comments, and much like my own thoughts. I understand that the draft is a crap shoot, plus we have to realize that a player that did well for the Chiefs might not have done well with us, that a lot of a player's success lies in the hands of the team that drafted him. My problem is that we're dedicating too much capital to skill positions, ie RB and WR, and not enough to the guys in the trenches on both sides of the LOS.

 

[Ozzy]

Good comments, and much like my own thoughts. I understand that the draft is a crap shoot, plus we have to realize that a player that did well for the Chiefs might not have done well with us, that a lot of a player's success lies in the hands of the team that drafted him. My problem is that we're dedicating too much capital to skill positions, ie RB and WR, and not enough to the guys in the trenches on both sides of the LOS.

Agree 100%!

 

[hawkfan68]

You're definitely going to miss sometimes, but just as far as league track record goes with drafted centers, there's usually only 2 or 3 drafted in the first two rounds of any draft and the success rate of those centers is spotty. A ridiculous amount of them ended up converting to other spots anyway.

It's just a really niche position in which you can nail a good one down anywhere in the draft if we look at the where the best ones were drafted. It's going to come down to coaching regardless.

Max Unger was a 2nd rounder. His void is still felt at the center position. Justin Britt and Ethan Pocic, both 2nd round centers. Justin was a tackle that they converted into a center. Ethan was a center which they tried to convert into a guard.

 

[WarHawks]

We're always going to need players other than qb. Always. Every draft. So why potentially mortgage your future not picking a qb in favor of a tackle or whatever? When you have an opportunity to draft a qbotf in the 1st in a rare and deep qb draft, you pull the trigger. Stop messing around and just do it.

 

[keasley45]

If we had a better guard, a better run D... and pass D, we wouldn't be asking the question.

Get a qb and miss out on getting the best players you can at ol, LB, and safety, and your wunderkind will face the same problems our current QB does.

And Penix won't be available. The Bears are going to take him and trade Fields.

 

[WarHawks]

If we had a better guard, a better run D... and pass D, we wouldn't be asking the question.

Get a qb and miss out on getting the best players you can at ol, LB, and safety, and your wunderkind will face the same problems our current QB does.

And Penix won't be available. The Bears are going to take him and trade Fields.

Then we will never draft a qb, because we're always going to need ol, lb, safety, etc.

 

[HawaiiD]

It won't matter if Hurtt comes back.

 

[Scout]

It won't matter if Hurtt comes back.

I was going to say that but I think that sentiment is universal.

Realistically I would like to see the team draft a QB in round one so they can add some more talent since the QB will playing on a cheap rookie deal. But I think Geno navigated this season better than anticipated given the early issues with injuries that slowed down the offense.

 

[renofox]

Can we draft a HC instead?

 

[irfuben32]

If Penix falls grab him.

I would like a DT though, it would be awesome if the consensus number one player in the nation was a DT and somehow fell to us due to character concerns.

 

[soxhawk]

I trust JS with picking QB and I know for a fact it won't be Penix.

 

[irfuben32]

we need to draft defense, we need LB's and DT's badly

 

[Jville]

Seahawks have their quarterback.

Trade down.

Trade that 1st round pick for more picks.

 

[James in PA]

I can't wait for John & Pete's bullshit smokescreen college QB tour again this offseason.