Do you believe this about Russell Wilson?

[IndyHawk]

Pete and Bevel made that call, to blame Wilson for the call is odd. And if it’s because you think they felt “pressured” then you should be clowning Carroll for falling prey to it. Sherman publicly threw Carroll under the bus multiple times. Lunch refused to practice and also threw a fit and wouldn’t get on the bus yet they get passes.

Me3 not taking a piece of the blame for throwing it in the wrong spot or at all is the issue
and that is what the stans overlook.
Throw it away or run to left and toss to Beast just standing there was the other options but
he wanted the glory and lost the team.
All that was left after was Team3 and the dynasty build up crumbled.

 

[RiverDog]

Yep, many things can be true at the same time. For example, Wilson had far more success than many/most of the celebrated first round QBs over the last several years will ever have. But there was just a shelf life on that style of play. Fortunately this was a case where we sold a year early before Denver figured that out.

I agree. Russell has yet to change his game to compensate for his diminishing physical skills. A couple of the most telling stats are his time to throw and the number of sacks he takes. Both have always been high, but what's missing now is those dynamic, sand lot plays and Houdini-like escapes from sure sacks. He still occasionally pulls them off, but they are fewer and further between. Plus, he either can't or won't throw over the middle. That seems to be one of the things that drew the ire of Sean Payton.

I guess I'm sort of middle of the road on this forum, at least as far as my opinion on Russell goes. He is not HOF material in my eyes. There's a half dozen other Hawks I'd nominate before I'd nominated Russ. Nevertheless, he's the best QB we've had as a franchise by just about any measure, played the position for us longer than anyone else, was a critical piece of our Lombardi season and the near miss a year later. Yes, he's has changed, he's gotten too big for his britches, is delusional and tone deaf. I had grown weary of his personality years before the trade.

But if I'm in the crowd, I won't boo him and I won't cheer him. I'll simply tip my cap to him.

 

[Ozzy]

Me3 not taking a piece of the blame for throwing it in the wrong spot or at all is the issue
and that is what the stans overlook.
Throw it away or run to left and toss to Beast just standing there was the other options but
he wanted the glory and lost the team.
All that was left after was Team3 and the dynasty build up crumbled.

I’ve watched that Throw hundreds of times and it was the least important aspect of that play going wrong. Lockette rounded his route, Kearse missed his block. Butler practiced that exact play in practice. Etc all of those were massively more impactful than the throw being a few inches off target. That’s not being a Stan for Wilson that’s knowing football and being objective. If they run that play with Baldwin it’s a touchdown with zero other changes to that play because he runs it right. It’s not lockers fault as why would bevel call that play with his gunner and not one of his main guys?

The best play was a rollout the other way or a zone read attacking the outside linebacker as he was terribly slow. It wasn’t a run with Lynch as NE was better in that regard. You can’t throw it away either because it’s a non read snap and throw play from the get go.

 

[jeremiah]

Russel was great at the read option, complety froze the defense for a split second. Did he give the ball to Lynch or did he keep it?

Russell was great at extending the play with his legs. He was one of the very best a throwing the ball while running. Once again froze the defense for a spit second, is he going to throw or run?

Russell throws a very nice deep ball.

Russell sucks at quick developing plays, cannot do a three step drop ball is gone play. Tried that in the second superbowl and we all cried about how that worked out. One could question if he could even do a five step consistently

Once Russell lost his legs or the desire to use his legs, it was over. Pretty standard for most running QBs. Problem is Russell developed an unrealistic perception on how good he was making himself hard to coach. Lost what made him great and didn’t have what was necessary to overcome that

He has become an easy QB to defend against

I don't totally agree with your analysis, but it has merit behind it in that this has happened before to running QB's

 

[Spin Doctor]

This video right here does a great job talking about Russ and his limitations as a passer. He's a limited QB, always has been. He only knows how to run dumbed down offenses.

 

[IndyHawk]

I’ve watched that Throw hundreds of times and it was the least important aspect of that play going wrong. Lockette rounded his route, Kearse missed his block. Butler practiced that exact play in practice. Etc all of those were massively more impactful than the throw being a few inches off target. That’s not being a Stan for Wilson that’s knowing football and being objective. If they run that play with Baldwin it’s a touchdown with zero other changes to that play because he runs it right. It’s not lockers fault as why would bevel call that play with his gunner and not one of his main guys?

The best play was a rollout the other way or a zone read attacking the outside linebacker as he was terribly slow. It wasn’t a run with Lynch as NE was better in that regard. You can’t throw it away either because it’s a non read snap and throw play from the get go.

The play gets many responses that vary with opinions, the call while I agree it
sucked it's still the QBs job to place the ball in the right spot.

 

[RiverDog]

Russel was great at the read option, complety froze the defense for a split second. Did he give the ball to Lynch or did he keep it?

Russell was great at extending the play with his legs. He was one of the very best a throwing the ball while running. Once again froze the defense for a spit second, is he going to throw or run?

Russell throws a very nice deep ball.

Russell sucks at quick developing plays, cannot do a three step drop ball is gone play. Tried that in the second superbowl and we all cried about how that worked out. One could question if he could even do a five step consistently

Once Russell lost his legs or the desire to use his legs, it was over. Pretty standard for most running QBs. Problem is Russell developed an unrealistic perception on how good he was making himself hard to coach. Lost what made him great and didn’t have what was necessary to overcome that

He has become an easy QB to defend against

Good post, very objective.

But I will disagree that it's pretty standard for running quarterbacks to lose their effectiveness as they age. Steve Young's best seasons came after he turned 30. Fran Tarkenton's best season, winning the MVP, came when he was 35 years old. Two of Joe Montana's 3 best seasons was when he was in his 30's. Roger Staubach, a.k.a. Roger the Dodger, won MVP's when he was 36 and 37 years old.

All of those guys were what one would call 'running QB's' early in their careers yet were able to adjust as they got older. I thought that Russell would be able to make a similar transition, but he never did.

 

[chris98251]

Good post, very objective.

But I will disagree that it's pretty standard for running quarterbacks to lose their effectiveness as they age. Steve Young's best seasons came after he turned 30. Fran Tarkenton's best season, winning the MVP, came when he was 35 years old. Two of Joe Montana's 3 best seasons was when he was in his 30's. Roger Staubach, a.k.a. Roger the Dodger, won MVP's when he was 36 and 37 years old.

All of those guys were what one would call 'running QB's' early in their careers yet were able to adjust as they got older. I thought that Russell would be able to make a similar transition, but he never did.

Don't think that he couldn't, I think its more about he won't, he doesn't want others in highlight reels.

 

[RiverDog]

Don't think that he couldn't, I think its more about he won't, he doesn't want others in highlight reels.

That's hard to say. Does he not throw over the middle because his vision is limited? If the answer is yes, then he probably can't make that adjustment. If the answer is no, then he definitely could.

I don't know why Russell hasn't made the adjustments that many QB's who depended a lot on their legs to make plays (such as Montana, Young, Tark, and Staubach) have done. All I know is that he hasn't. He's still holding onto the ball way too long and taking way too many sacks because of it.

We'll see how he does this season. He'll be playing in his 4th system in as many seasons. But he is going to have to change. The Steelers OL was one of the worst at pass blocking last season, and if you couple that with a QB who holds onto the ball as Russell does.....

 

[Appyhawk]

Linemen on both sides of the ball just keep getting bigger every year. Russ isn't getting taller. One reason he doesn't like throwing over the middle is all that bulk between him and his potential targets. His adjustment is to run outside and throw it downfield. That is his play.
Now he can't run like he used to...

 

[IndyHawk]

That's hard to say. Does he not throw over the middle because his vision is limited? If the answer is yes, then he probably can't make that adjustment. If the answer is no, then he definitely could.

I don't know why Russell hasn't made the adjustments that many QB's who depended a lot on their legs to make plays (such as Montana, Young, Tark, and Staubach) have done. All I know is that he hasn't. He's still holding onto the ball way too long and taking way too many sacks because of it.

We'll see how he does this season. He'll be playing in his 4th system in as many seasons. But he is going to have to change. The Steelers OL was one of the worst at pass blocking last season, and if you couple that with a QB who holds onto the ball as Russell does.....

QBs who were sacked the most the last two seasons.
1) Wilson - 99 times
2) Fields -98 times
The third highest was only 78 times.. I don't blame the OLs for the top 2.

 

[BlueTalon]

QBs who were sacked the most the last two seasons.
1) Wilson - 99 times
2) Fields -98 times

And now they're both on the same team. If they split time this year, we might have to combine their stats for fun.

 

[jammerhawk]

more time favors him and fields more than better route runners- as long as the receivers

 

[jammerhawk]

I doubt he is truly that good at running any sophisticated O.

However, when he can play Russell ball and has time to pass He's a good QB, but not worth $40-50 M/yr.

JS had the right idea to replace him in 2018.

 

[hawkfan68]

Me3 not taking a piece of the blame for throwing it in the wrong spot or at all is the issue
and that is what the stans overlook.
Throw it away or run to left and toss to Beast just standing there was the other options but
he wanted the glory and lost the team.
All that was left after was Team3 and the dynasty build up crumbled.

How did he not take the blame? He said himself in the below interview that he is to blame, he threw the ball.

 

[RiverDog]

QBs who were sacked the most the last two seasons.
1) Wilson - 99 times
2) Fields -98 times
The third highest was only 78 times.. I don't blame the OLs for the top 2.

That's in direct correlation to what I said that he has to improve on, that he quit holding onto the ball so long.

Last season, Russell averaged 3.06 seconds in time-to-throw. The only other starting quarterback with a longer TT was...you guessed it, Justin Fields. But the big difference is that Fields is 25 years old and is a legitimate running threat. Russell is a full 10 years older and has lost a step.

I can't remember when it was, sometime during the offseason in an interview several years before the trade, but in it, Russell said "I'm getting hit too much," which I thought was either ignorant or selfish as he's always had one of the longest time-to-throw numbers in the league and said nothing to acknowledge the fact that a good number of that "getting hit too much" was of his own doing. It was the beginning of the end in my love for Russell.

 

[toffee]

That's in direct correlation to what I said that he has to improve on, that he quit holding onto the ball so long.

Last season, Russell averaged 3.06 seconds in time-to-throw. The only other starting quarterback with a longer TT was...you guessed it, Justin Fields. But the big difference is that Fields is 25 years old and is a legitimate running threat. Russell is a full 10 years older and has lost a step.

I can't remember when it was, sometime during the offseason in an interview several years before the trade, but in it, Russell said "I'm getting hit too much," which I thought was either ignorant or selfish as he's always had one of the longest time-to-throw numbers in the league and said nothing to acknowledge the fact that a good number of that "getting hit too much" was of his own doing. It was the beginning of the end in my love for Russell.

Same here.

 

[toffee]

We'll see how he does this season. He'll be playing in his 4th system in as many seasons. But he is going to have to change. The Steelers OL was one of the worst at pass blocking last season, and if you couple that with a QB who holds onto the ball as Russell does.....

In the first season with Broncos, Wilson had his own office. He held players' meetings in his office weekly to show the plays he designed and discuss how to execute his plays, he was his own OC and Hackett the HC as his partner.

Under Waldron he played RussBall, same for Hackett. Yes, he had to learn a new system under Payton.

 

[IndyHawk]

How did he not take the blame? He said himself in the below interview that he is to blame, he threw the ball.

I never saw this clip..I stand corrected on this one.

 

[IndyHawk]

That's in direct correlation to what I said that he has to improve on, that he quit holding onto the ball so long.

Last season, Russell averaged 3.06 seconds in time-to-throw. The only other starting quarterback with a longer TT was...you guessed it, Justin Fields. But the big difference is that Fields is 25 years old and is a legitimate running threat. Russell is a full 10 years older and has lost a step.

I can't remember when it was, sometime during the offseason in an interview several years before the trade, but in it, Russell said "I'm getting hit too much," which I thought was either ignorant or selfish as he's always had one of the longest time-to-throw numbers in the league and said nothing to acknowledge the fact that a good number of that "getting hit too much" was of his own doing. It was the beginning of the end in my love for Russell.

Yes, I know but found the sack numbers interesting and both are on the
worst OL team in the NFL?
Almost like a built in excuse to take a bunch of sacks.