Darrell Bevell OTA Press Conference 6/2/15

Fade

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LymonHawk":3na18gds said:
Fade":3na18gds said:
Lymon what did you think about my 3 comments/points on that specific play? In the giants game i responded to you a few posts back.

Oh, well.

How does a small sampling show a pattern? Now, a large sample...

PC raving about Jimmy's redzone ability only shows it's more about the quality of the players, not the OC. But thanks for making my point. 'preciate it.

Enough. I have other things to do in my life.

/FACEPALM

-The Small sample built into a pattern ------>that builds as you watch more of the games from last season and culminates in the Superbowl. <------ you should of kept reading.

- The PC Interview: Pete was asked POINT 1 (as in first, uno) What does Jimmy Graham Bring.

I will post it for you since you obviously ignored it.

http://www.seahawks.com/news/2015/0...y-graham-seahawks-coach-pete-carroll-710-espn

Pete Carroll radio interview

Here's an excerpt
1. What Graham Will Bring

Carroll called out Graham's red-zone and third-down production as key areas he expects the 6-foot-7, 265-pound tight end to contribute. He said Graham's work in the red zone has been "consistent" and "ridiculous," sharing an impressive statistic Graham has tallied over the last three years, when 35 of his 50 red-zone catches have gone for touchdowns.

"That's legit," said Carroll. "You go to him because he has such a great presence. That factor alone will add to it."


A little further down the page.
Carroll said the Seahawks plan to involve Graham in the normal course of the throwing game. The one thing that will change is they now have "a real positive target" in the red zone.
 

LymonHawk

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Fade":3rh48x7k said:
LymonHawk":3rh48x7k said:
It's also factual that being a 'boob' in the red zone does not make you a solid to good OC...just the opposite. You can't have it both ways Fade. Either you called the guy a boob or you didn't. When you called the other poster a boob, did you also mean he was solid to good...except in the end zone?

BTW: There have been plenty of good OCs who were not good head coaches. One does not necessary morph into the other. Norv Turner for example.

He has a Fatal Flaw --> Redzone. What coaches aren't aloud to have strengths and weaknesses? They aren't just good at everything or bad at everything. No they have Strengths, and they have Weaknesses. Of course the key is to minimize your weaknesses 8)

The Very Good to Great Coordinaters are the ones that become the new HCs in the NFL. of course there are exceptions,

Pete Carroll was a great DC with the Niners,
Mike Holmgren was a great OC with the Niners.
Dan Quinn was a great DC with Hawks.

I shouldn't have to explain this to you.... :roll: In the end some are good and some are bad, but new HCs mostly come from the coordinator spots.

Where are my hipboots?
 

Fade

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LymonHawk":zrt58doc said:
It's also factual that being a 'boob' in the red zone does not make you a solid to good OC...just the opposite. You can't have it both ways Fade. Either you called the guy a boob or you didn't. When you called the other poster a boob, did you also mean he was solid to good...except in the end zone?

BTW: There have been plenty of good OCs who were not good head coaches. One does not necessary morph into the other. Norv Turner for example.

He has a Fatal Flaw --> Redzone. What coaches aren't aloud to have strengths and weaknesses? They aren't just good at everything or bad at everything. No they have Strengths, and they have Weaknesses. Of course the key is to minimize your weaknesses 8)

The Very Good to Great Coordinaters are the ones that become the new HCs in the NFL. of course there are exceptions,

Pete Carroll was a great DC with the Niners,
Mike Holmgren was a great OC with the Niners.
Dan Quinn was a great DC with Hawks.

I shouldn't have to explain this to you.... :roll: In the end some are good and some are bad as HCs, but they get their shot built off their reps as great coordinators.
 

Zebulon Dak

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I dunno who you used to post as before you changed your name to Fade, but I really like you. It's the kind of relentless, no-nonsense approach this place had been missing since we lost Ryan (RIP).
 

Fade

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Zebulon Dak":24vuem7v said:
I dunno who you used to post as before you changed your name to Fade, but I really like you. It's the kind of relentless, no-nonsense approach this place had been missing since we lost Ryan (RIP).

I hope you are being serious. because if you are not I will cry, but Thank You for the kind words.
 

Zebulon Dak

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Fade":3e6ws60a said:
Zebulon Dak":3e6ws60a said:
I dunno who you used to post as before you changed your name to Fade, but I really like you. It's the kind of relentless, no-nonsense approach this place had been missing since we lost Ryan (RIP).

I hope you are being serious. because if you are not I will cry, but Thank You for the kind words.

Unfortunately I am being serious; Ryan is no longer with us. So don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen.

Btw, how are you pronouncing "gif"? Are you going hard g or soft g? Just trying to get a feel.
 

Fade

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Zebulon Dak":23py2m0s said:
Fade":23py2m0s said:
Zebulon Dak":23py2m0s said:
I dunno who you used to post as before you changed your name to Fade, but I really like you. It's the kind of relentless, no-nonsense approach this place had been missing since we lost Ryan (RIP).

I hope you are being serious. because if you are not I will cry, but Thank You for the kind words.

Unfortunately I am being serious; Ryan is no longer with us. So don't get any big ideas, they're not gonna happen.

Btw, how are you pronouncing "gif"? Are you going hard g or soft g? Just trying to get a feel.

I'm a guh great gif guy :D
 

Zebulon Dak

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Oh thank god. I knew I liked you. You may carry on with your Bevell bashing.
 

Siouxhawk

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rideaducati":6s0amsdx said:
Not a fan of Bevell at all. The Super Bowl wasn't the first time Bevell called a pass play that turned into an interception late in a playoff game. Favre and the Vikings were in field goal range and had Adrian Peterson in the backfield vs. the Saints when they were tied late in the fourth quarter and Bevell called a pass play that was intercepted. He should have learned from that play, but he obviously didn't. He may be a really good OC, but maybe he shouldn't be allowed to call plays.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, this is incorrect.
If they kicked the field goal from the line of scrimmage on that play, it would have been something like a 56-yarder. No gimme by any stretch of the imagination.
And I can tell you for a fact that Favre did the one thing he couldn't do on that play. He could have barrell-rolled for an extra 4 yards for what the Saints were giving him, but more glaring than that was that Bernard Berrian was wide open 15 yards down the field near the sideline. If Favre goes that way instead of throwing again his body into double coverage, the Vikings win that game.
Had nothing to do with Bevell. In fact in a game where the Vikes turned the ball over 6 times ... three by Peterson himself ... it was the coaching staff who kept the team in that game.
 

PackerNation

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hawknation2015":28mcq036 said:
That same site shows that we were 20th in red zone TD percentage. That's not getting it done, IMO.

I will give you an example that I know you actually watched, since I assume you have not seen every Seahawks game:

In the opener against your Packers, we intercepted Rodgers and took it down to the eight-yard line. Rather than run the ball in, Bevell decides to throw on first down, and the pass is incomplete to Kearse, who had no chance at it whatsoever. This was the perfect opportunity to exert our will on you guys and pound the ball in, but instead Bevell decides to get cutesy by trying to outsmart a defense that is anticipating a Lynch run. Mercifully, we hand the hand the ball to Lynch on 2nd down, and he slices through your defense all the way down to the three-yard line. We had already gashed your defense for over 150 yards on the ground. So what do we do now, in the red zone, less than three yards away from pay dirt? We throw a freaking screen pass to Harvin that goes absolutely nowhere. That sequence pretty much epitomized the agony that was Bevell's play calling in the red zone last season.

Thanks for the well thought out post and while I do watch a lot of football, I do not see every Seahawk game. However, now that you are contenders with an excellent football team, I do watch more than in past years. The plays you brought up I will address below.

After the interception, Russell Wilson fakes an inside handoff to Lynch then rolls right for an incomplete pass to Kearce. Ok, first off, did Wilson audible? Most likely just calling out the coverage. Lynch switches sides and the offensive line all looks back at Wilson. Wilson snaps the ball, fakes the handoff but Matthews recovers in time and forces Wilson to either throw a bad pass or throw it away. I think Wilson just threw it away knowing he didn't have a good shot at making a TD and did not want to risk the INT.

If Lynch gets the hand off, good chance he scores around the left end. Unless Perry slips the block in time to cut his legs out from under him. But with Jones and Perry each taking the inside and leaving the outside exposed, it is anyone's guess at what would or could have happened. Maybe Lynch never goes outside and gets a small gain.

In the defense of Bevell on this play, he had Wilson show the Read Option formation which he had been doing a lot that game. It was a sound strategy that kept the Packers off-balance all game. To be honest you had a lot success all game in either the run or the pass out of that formation. I think I counted Wilson in that formation (I call it the Read Option formation, not sure what Seattle refers to it as.) 36 times throughout the game.

Like you stated, I would have run the ball there. But I am not "into" the game like Bevell is nor am I sure that Wilson did not audible out of the run and decided to run it in himself and when he got caught by Matthews, just threw it away.

The Percy Harvin pass was tipped at the line and had it been a clean pass, I think he falls into the end zone for a score. Was it even supposed to go to Harvin? Hard to tell on the film, even all 22 from the end zone is not 100% clear to me.

I would have run the ball in from here as well. :D

But you can't run the ball on every play. You have to mix it up and that includes mixing it up in the Red Zone. They tried a "bunch formation right" and the play didn't go at all as planned. The Packer defense didn't cooperate at all and got some hands in the air to knock the pass off target.

After watching the rest of the game (condensed) I though Bevell did a nice job which included that trick play to Harvin (which he stole from Auburn) was pure gold. The rest was Lynch and the Seattle offense having their way most of the game, thanks to Capers trying to employ something called the "quad" defense that failed miserably. It got shelved after that game, never to see the light of day again.
 

SalishHawkFan

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summary for those who didn't see the presser:

Bevell: I know after the Super Bowl a lot of people rushed to judgement and some people wanted to Lynch me, but it's a new season coming up so let's get passed that.
 

hawk45

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hawknation2015":113hb8pt said:
The best characteristic an OC can have, IMO, is not the ability to surprise an opponent, rather it is the ability to appreciate game flow and to make adjustments that fully exploit every advantage at our disposal. Bevell has too often failed at this, sacrificing true advantages for the novelty of surprise.

This is not about one criticism of one play . . . it is about a consistent and systematic failure in abandoning the running game at inopportune moments and simply failing to put the dagger into the heart of our opponents in the red zone, time and time again.

My excitement about the addition of Graham, for example, is tempered by my concern that Bevell has no idea how to fully exploit the advantages this player brings to the field.

This is a very excellent distillation of the Bevell criticism on this board and I too am concerned Bevell will somehow yank our offensive identity askew when given what should be an advantage in Graham.

To augment the point Fade has been making, what red-zone success we do have that doesn't involve a handoff to Lynch usually involves a DOA pass play with mind-numbing route design and selection that has Russell scrambling for his life and producing a miracle that has zero to do with Bevell and in fact has to overcome his "genius". I still remember Pehawk pointing out a play during the regular season that had like all 3 receivers running routes within 5 yards of each other in the right side of the end zone giving us zero chance to succeed with the actual play call.

A similar thing happened in the NFCC on the 2 pt conversion miracle play to Luke Willson. 3 bodies into routes on the right side of the field just mashed up and given no chance by the defense. Luke Willson, interviewed after the game, says he wasn't even supposed to leak out the backside but he saw Wilson in trouble and said why not. Red zone, and both players involved in the successful conversion are going off-script because Bevell can't design NFL level routes.

To the red zone woes I would add Bevell often enters a game with a crappy game plan. The Superbowl was a classic example. The Patriots came in with a good offensive game plan and had immediate success (with the advantage of some Seahawk injuries). Bevell had nothing against the Patriot D. I was shocked and pleased that he found and actually stuck with the Matthews connection later, and that spoke well of him, but what was he doing in the 2 weeks leading up to the Superbowl that it took him a half to figure something out? This is a common offensive theme in our games.

But the red zone thing is really the meat of the argument. Bevell has been able to behave for stretches, usually after he makes an obvious and costly gaffe that results in Lynch flipping him off and Pete calming down the pitchforks after the game by taking blame and saying that "we" as in the team need to do better sometimes staying with our strengths. Cable shoves Bevell up against a locker and for a time he is in check. But he always drifts back to cutesy, and the worst fear of Pehawk and those pointing this out was that he would do it in the biggest moment and cost us everything. Oops.
 

bevellisthedevil

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A large majority of empty backfield calls on third and short since Bevell has been our OC should tell you all you need to know.
 

Sports Hernia

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storm74":lrambu04 said:
A large majority of empty backfield calls on third and short since Bevell has been our OC should tell you all you need to know.
Yeah, the empty sets drive me nuts.
 

Recon_Hawk

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storm74":2akjtb1b said:
A large majority of empty backfield calls on third and short since Bevell has been our OC should tell you all you need to know.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/FO_ASchatz/status/606878866821509121[/tweet]

Based on conversion rate %
5e0dd3e727fc12fd2ecf9751fe6ff4fc

On a grander scale, league wide teams are increasing their use of the pass in short yardage, so it's not just Bevell.

"Including scrambles as passes, teams run the ball 70.9 percent of the time on third-and-1 since 2009. When it's third-and-2, teams run the ball only 31.0 percent of the time."

In fact, based on the chart above, they are ranked 30th in pass ratio in these situations at 31%.

I know this doesn't directly answer the 3rd and short question of why Bevell and Pete choose to go empty set and throw instead of give the ball to Marshawn on 3rd and short or just use him as a decoy more, even though "Seattle led the league with a 26-of-30 conversion rate (86.7 percent) on short-yardage runs", but I think it does show that despite our concerns, Seattle is still highly successful in what they are doing in these short yardage situations.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-a ... rdage-pass

These probably aren't the best stats to settle any arguments about the offense and the empty-set, but I remember seeing the tweet and reading the Football Outsiders article and thought they might be relevant.
 

Zebulon Dak

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People see something not work a few times and get all pissed off about it. Even when that something does work, it's still the times it didn't that stick out in their mind. Nothing new.
 

Crizilla

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SalishHawkFan":r8qamgv2 said:
summary for those who didn't see the presser:

Bevell: I know after the Super Bowl a lot of people rushed to judgement and some people wanted to Lynch me, but it's a new season coming up so let's get passed that.

did he really say that?
 

hawknation2015

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Zebulon Dak":93024r8o said:
People see something not work a few times and get all pissed off about it. Even when that something does work, it's still the times it didn't that stick out in their mind. Nothing new.

20th in red zone TD percentage is not getting it done. That's not anecdotal; it's on the aggregate level. Carroll himself spoke at times last season about the failure to get the ball to Lynch, correcting that and committing to running the ball more. The constant optimist, Carroll I think expects that Bevell will improve his commitment to the running game this season.
 

Zebulon Dak

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We all want Marshawn to get the ball more. But let's face facts, he's going to get about 20 touches per game on average because we want him to live. What we need is an actual, reliable backup for him because right now Russ is our next best rushing option by far. Then again we have the league's best rushing attack so I don't know that we need to commit all that much to improving it. But we could always work towards executing it more efficiently, especially in certain situations, sure.
 

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