Cal breaks the single season HR record for catchers.

[RiverDog]

You could argue it was too hot to be outside

Cal absolutely DOES have a chance to get MVP. Not likely because Judge exists, but Cal has a real shot. The guy is literally having the best year a catcher has EVER had in the history of the game. He's also playing a hell of a lot harder position than RF.
Also, what if Cal was doing this in NY? Just sayin.
It should be MOST VALUABLE PLAYER. He absolutely is the most valuable player in the AL. Voters can't ignore that he's doing this is as a catcher.

In my book, any MVP has to come from a team that at least makes the playoffs simply due to the definition of the term "most valuable". You have to ask yourself the question where the team would be without him. Being valuable enough to get your team close to making the playoffs doesn't cut it IMO.

You're right, we do have to give Cal some points for playing the most physically demanding position on the field and playing it well, along with managing the pitch selection. And we have to take into consideration some of these records he's been setting, particularly if he passes Mantle's long standing 54 home runs by a switch hitter.

But 76 points difference in batting average between him and Judge is a lot to rationalize, and you have to consider the fact that no position player in the history of the game has won a league MVP with a batting average below .267, and Cal's sitting at .247. He needs to bring his BA up, something that is very difficult if not impossible to do at this point in the season.

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[SoulfishHawk]

So, ONLY a playoff team is worthy of an MVP? Agree to disagree.

 

[RiverDog]

So, ONLY a playoff team is worthy of an MVP? Agree to disagree.

We can disagree all we want, but the fact is that very few MVP's are taken from non-playoff teams. Bryce Harper was the last one to do it in 2021, so it is possible. But it's going to take a monster year, and I don't think that a .247 BA on a team that misses the playoffs is going to open enough eyes.

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[SoulfishHawk]

Doesn't mean it's right that the MVP would get shafted, all because he's not on a playoff team. Look at football. Cortez got Defensive Player of the Year on 2-win team. Cal is my MVP, that's good enough for me.

 

[RiverDog]

Doesn't mean it's right that the MVP would get shafted, all because he's not on a playoff team. Look at football. Cortez got Defensive Player of the Year on 2-win team. Cal is my MVP, that's good enough for me.

Yeah, and JJ Watt won it several times for an equally horrible team. But DPY is a different award than an MVP. As I said earlier, we have to look at the definition of the term "most valuable".

I can't remember the exact situation, but there was once a baseball player negotiating a new contract for a last place team, and the owner quipped, and I'm paraphrasing: "we can't get any worse off without you." That's sort of what I'm talking about regarding the term "most valuable."

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Well, imo he is CLEARLY more valuable to the M's than another player is to their team. Dude is doing this as a Catcher.
I'll say it yet again: If Cal was doing this in NY, he would be a shoe in.
Judge is not more valuable to the Yankees than Cal is to the Mariners. It's not even close, imo.
Dude plays RF, and much of the time he has been at DH. Not even close to as valuable as what Cal brings to the M's.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Only 39 players in MLB history have hit 50 or more home runs

51 total seasons in MLB history of 50 or more home runs

 

[Ozzy]

And to do it as a catcher? Unbelievable and he still has over a month to go! Heck Perez didn't hit number 48 until September 28th I think. I do think Cal has a great shot at Mantles switch hitting record of 54 and Griffey's Mariner record of 56. The crazy part is Griffey did it at the Kingdome which was much more hitter friendly and the pitching wasn't as good as it is today.

For me I think its a long shot but if he could get to 60 that would be awesome. I consider Judge's 62 to be the real record as the highest number without steroids and its only been done 3 times in Ruch, Maris, Judge when you remove the steroid guys.

The cool part is 50 is an iconic number so pressure is off and anythin above 50 is on the house with a couple of cool records he can break along the way.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Unreal. So much work and wear and tear on the body. We are seeing the best season a catcher has ever had, including Johnny Bench.
I wish the batting average was a better, of course. But, meh. Productive, clutch, team leader.

 

[RiverDog]

#50 for Cal. Hit as a DH, so no progress on the catcher record. Also, the first switch hitter to ever hit at least 20 HRs from both sides of the plate in a season. 4 behind Mantle for the switch hitter record. 6 behind Griffey for the team record. 12 behind Judge for the AL record.

Good point about the DH thing. As often as Mickey Mantle missed games due to an injury, one has to wonder if he would have been able to at least hit had there been a DH rule during his day.

There was a controversy earlier this season about the torpedo bats. I saw Cal Raleigh hit a home run when he had just one hand on the bat when he made contact.

There's been so many changes over the years that it's apples vs. oranges comparing today's players with those who played 50+ years ago. You pretty much have to break out the records by era.

 

[RiverDog]

Well, imo he is CLEARLY more valuable to the M's than another player is to their team. Dude is doing this as a Catcher.
I'll say it yet again: If Cal was doing this in NY, he would be a shoe in.
Judge is not more valuable to the Yankees than Cal is to the Mariners. It's not even close, imo.
Dude plays RF, and much of the time he has been at DH. Not even close to as valuable as what Cal brings to the M's.

I honestly don't know if a regional bias exists and if so, how much it influences the voting. Each ML city gets two sportswriters who cast votes, one for the NL and one for the AL, so 30 votes in each league. In theory, it should be a fair vote.

But those sportswriters didn't all grow up as fans of the teams they cover. I remember a person once saying that if you grew up in an American League city during the 50's, you grew up hating the Yankees because they were so dominant. The Yanks could very well have had a bias working against them.

Biases are almost certainly at work, but which way they tend to sway is anyone's guess.

I agree with your point about the different positions. The catcher has a lot more of an impact on a game than does a right fielder, and if I were putting together a team from scratch, I'd take Cal over Judge. But it's an intangible that is very difficult to quantify. Offense isn't nearly as difficult to put a number on. That sportswriter in Miami isn't going to know very much about Cal Raleigh's contributions as a catcher, but he will know about his offensive stats.

Is it fair? Almost certainly not. But you know what they say about life not being fair. Get used to it.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

There are a lot of people who are saying Cal is in the lead. He has a real shot. I doubt he gets it, but he COULD.
That being said, Judge's numbers are just plain ridiculous. Won't be mad if he gets it, just hope he doesn't

 

[Maulbert]

There are a lot of people who are saying Cal is in the lead. He has a real shot. I doubt he gets it, but he COULD.
That being said, Judge's numbers are just plain ridiculous. Won't be mad if he gets it, just hope he doesn't

Judge's numbers before the All-Star break are ridiculous. He slowed down after and has been floundering since his injury.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Here's to more flounders

 

[RiverDog]

There are a lot of people who are saying Cal is in the lead. He has a real shot. I doubt he gets it, but he COULD.
That being said, Judge's numbers are just plain ridiculous. Won't be mad if he gets it, just hope he doesn't

I don't get too hung up on individual awards. I'm all about the team. Players don't have the same degree of loyalty to their teams/fans as they did pre-free agency. I won't even wear a jersey with another player's name/number on it.

That doesn't mean I don't have respect for certain players like Cal. From everything I've heard, he's a class act, very humble, a good teammate, interacts with his fans. I just don't idolize them or put them on a pedestal to be worshiped, which is what wearing their name/number makes me feel like I'm doing.

Maybe that's why I can look at this award process somewhat objectively.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He's the most valuable player to his team in the AL. He's MVP to me. And I know I'm not alone in that.

 

[RiverDog]

He's the most valuable player to his team in the AL. He's MVP to me. And I know I'm not alone in that.

I'm sure you're not, but you have to admit that you're an M's fan and hold a certain degree of bias.

I don't want to go so far as saying I don't care if Cal wins the MVP, but it's not at the top of my agenda. I don't go rushing into the box score each morning to see what his batting average is.

The M's have a day game today, so I need to plan my day around it. It's nice having a horse in the race at this stage of the season. They have a 3-game lead for the last wild card spot and are just 1.5 games behind the Astros for the division title, so they have a great shot at making the playoffs.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Schwarber suddenly at #49. To say nothing reaching 60, Cal might not even win the race this season.

 

[Chapow]

Judge's numbers before the All-Star break are ridiculous. He slowed down after and has been floundering since his injury.

I hesitate to point this out because I'm sure no one wants to hear this, but Cal has been floundering since the break as well (actually since a couple weeks before the break). All of his hitting numbers are waaay down since the end of June. His BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, you name it, have all tanked. He just hit for a .173 average for the entire month of August.

Now, his overall numbers on the season are still very impressive. Especially HR's, RBI'S and OPS, but make no mistake. He's had a very rough last 2 months at the plate.

 

[Chapow]

Schwarber suddenly at #49. To say nothing reaching 60, Cal might not even win the race this season.

Schwarber has jumped out to a pretty big lead in the RBI category as well.