Breakdown on the 7 sacks, and more.

[HawKnPeppa]

On that screen-sack, Wilson did have a chance to make the play, but hesitated. I think the hesitation came from a fear of a batted pass turned interception. It was probably an irrational fear. I think that batted pass early in the game got in his head for quite some time, and he didn't really shake it until pretty late in the game. Just my opinion / speculation.

I didn't notice any hesitation, other than the play fake designed by Bevell. :?

 

[lobohawk]

Overall good thread, as it avoids the blame a-single-facet for the passing game issues.

If I had to lean in a particular direction, I do think the play calling is a bit awkward. As mentioned, look at the 7th sack on max protect. 2 WRs vs 3 DBs and they all end up next to each other.

While AZ has a great D and is creative in their pressure. The Hawks seemed ill prepared and had no counter to what AZ was doing. They just kept at it until AZ wilted towards the end (see the lack of pressure and passing success late). Maybe that was the overall plan, but you really have to take advantage in the first half with the great field position.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

To me, Huard's our guy, trustworthy Pac Northwesterner from Puyallup HS through Seahawks pro, sincere, and knowledgeable, if anyone can break down a play and explain it to the masses, it seems Brock's the guy. And Pete laughs at his best efforts. It's gotta be one damn complicated and/or confusing offense for the players to run.

Or Pete's just blowing smoke up our collective ass because he wants to throw curveballs at an opponent.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

I want to add one thing. Russ rips hearts out of teams with his running. It isn't like the cheap 1st downs that Rodgers gets when he runs the occasional 3rd down run right to the sticks. Russ can break a 40 yarder at any time, and the teams we play all know it. Look at the body language of these guys when it happens, they start looking at each other to see who effed up, it embarasses teams. Those yards never count when they tally MVP votes, but to me every one of his rushing yards could be counted as 3 passing yards and it would be an accurate view of how other teams fear what he does with his legs. A bunch of pictures may exonerate his linemen of whiffing on some sacks, but his measure is so much more holistic than most QBs. When he hands the ball off to Lynch on RO but still runs out his play fake, there is almost always a player who ignored Lynch to follow Russell. How many other QBs can say that? He commands attention without the ball. How do you measure that?

This is such a key point, and so compellingly stated. Just when a defense has accounted for everything, thrown the kitchen sink at Russell to get him to make bad reads, confused him, frustrated him, he pulls a Houdini out of his ass, and all their effort is for naught. The defense has done everything right, and they still lose. It has to be so frustrating and demoralizing for them. It has to rip their heart out, get them pointing fingers at each other. Not only that, now they're all gassed from chasing Russell, and dammit, here comes the little $h!t up to the line again to run the next play.

Yeah, REALLY good point and well stated by both of you guys. It's IMO the number one thing that has allowed RW to reasonably flourish at the NFL level in this offense with this head coach and his particular (conservative, run oriented) approach.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

THis is great stuff and very informative with pictures and everything. The only downside I see is you invoked the "Kirk". You do understand that in preseason, RW or someone that looks like him was wearing a Red Shirt...and you know what happens to RED SHIRTS in Star Trek. But this also brings up heritage too....seems that Jolene Blalock did go back in time, created Velcro..sold it and had a child too. But they did not show all that as it is a PG-13 show.... 8)



(Someone had to bust your chops buddy....why not me? LOL)

 

[nanomoz]

Thanks, Scotte. Great points. You're right, Russ really did have the same struggles, even last year in the playoffs.

I hope, at least, that Bevell incorporates more short routes/outlets for Russ. I know those routes might reduce his running lanes, but it'd be nice if the passing game could get in a little bit more of a rhythm. More targets for the young receivers could help in the long run.

 

[DavidSeven]

You know, in a conventional pocket passing offense, calling for all verticals in the face of a mis-matched blitz might not make a lot of sense. However, this particular offense is also designed to exploit Wilson's play-making ability. There may be a certain expectation (at least a risk calculated one) that he can beat a free rusher in a one-on-one situation. If he does, all verticals gives him either deep passing options or a field of open green to run through. Is it the best call? I dunno, but I'd resist the urge to say certain plays are called for no reason. It is a boom-or-bust type play, but the rewards are potentially great. And before you say it's not working, these plays have helped Wilson/Lynch create one of the most devastating rushing attacks this league has ever seen.

 

[kearly]

Well don't get me wrong, I enjoy the insight. If nothing else, it teaches me a bit more about football as I never played beyond high school.

I'm just learning to ignore anyone's criticism of play calling or positional play because of the things I mentioned.

I mean, every time I hear a coach or player comment on analyst opinion, they just laugh off what we see and explain it was a totally different playcall than anyone thought. I once heard one of the Seahawks laughing at Huard's assessment of a WR route, and Huard is a former pro quarterback. The player explained that what Huard thought was a hook route was actually a designed block. I've seen and heard Carroll outright laugh at questions about play calls and tell analysts that they were way off on what they were seeing.

What I found really interesting is that both Baldwin and Willson have explained in interviews that the Seahawks use a system (WR option?) where the receiver route changes at the line based on how the defense lines up in coverage. Baldwin explained that Russell Wilson, as a result, often has to make 2-3x as many reads versus systems that employ fixed routes. It also allows Seattle to adjust to coverages without an audible.

This specifically makes me question analysts who claim to know a route based on the fact that Wilson didn't verbally audible at the line. Just because he didn't audible doesn't mean that the Seahawks are running a "designed" play with fixed routes. Nobody outside the coach, WR and qb knows how the WR should end his route. Whether it's supposed to be an in or out, hook, block, etc. I've yet to hear one analyst discuss this, outside of Brock Huard, who openly admits that his reads of called plays are most likely wrong.

So it's hard for me to blame Bevell, Wilson or the o line for sacks or failed plays. There's really no way to know if someone failed on a route, whiffed a block, held the ball too long, etc. As Baldwin explained to espn, even if you think you know the call, you don't, and it's not like the players or coaches will ever tell you.

Anyway, didn't intend as criticism. I enjoy your posts and just wanted to hear how you account for this in your analysis.

Lots of good points and insights. Fair enough.

That said, I think we should remember that players and coaches are politicians. Image control is important to them, and having people second guess their decisions is bad for image. The "you may have guessed the play wrong" train of thought is a card they play to muddy the waters, an attempt to discredit criticism that very well may be 100% valid.

I also think that there are certain situations where you don't need to know the playcall to see that the end result was borne from obvious incompetence.

 

[kearly]

I didn't notice any hesitation, other than the play fake designed by Bevell. :?

It's close enough that either opinion is valid. Wilson has a fraction of a second, and chooses to eat the sack. Some QBs are making that throw instantly, but most would eat the sack.

I would assume they ran this play in practice. I agree with Scott that it is poor play design, but you think Wilson would know a rusher is coming almost instantly with the lineman giving a free release.

It is possible that this was a mistake by Bailey and not Wilson/Bevell. As a former lineman, I was taught to maintain a block for a second before releasing on screens, but Bailey doesn't even touch the guy. Really a shame because the play was very well set up, I think Lynch gets 15-25 yards on that play if he gets the football.

 

[Spin Doctor]

This thread echoes the sentiment I've had for a very long time, Wilson makes our line look far worse than it really is. He does not know how to read blitzes very well, nor does he really audible out of obvious mismatches. Part of a QB's job is to put himself and his teammates in a position to succeed in any given play. I don't see that with Wilson.

Scotty I think it was said it perfectly -- Wilson is a home run player with a strike-out problem. The way he manages the pocket really hurts his consistency, though it could lead to some big plays. I prefer consistent, methodical approach that can be relied upon in every drive. That is why I don't particularly care for Wilson's style, and don't rate him as highly as others.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

This thread echoes the sentiment I've had for a very long time, Wilson makes our line look far worse than it really is. He does not know how to read blitzes very well, nor does he really audible out of obvious mismatches. Part of a QB's job is to put himself and his teammates in a position to succeed in any given play. I don't see that with Wilson.

Scotty I think it was said it perfectly -- Wilson is a home run player with a strike-out problem. The way he manages the pocket really hurts his consistency, though it could lead to some big plays. I prefer consistent, methodical approach that can be relied upon in every drive. That is why I don't particularly care for Wilson's style, and don't rate him as highly as others.

Despite the fact that he's only in his third year and has already won a Super Bowl without a #1 receiver, above-average offensive line, or creative OC?

While I agree with your analysis, I disagree with the prognosis. I see nothing but upside with Wilson.

 

[Scottemojo]

This thread echoes the sentiment I've had for a very long time, Wilson makes our line look far worse than it really is. He does not know how to read blitzes very well, nor does he really audible out of obvious mismatches. Part of a QB's job is to put himself and his teammates in a position to succeed in any given play. I don't see that with Wilson.

Scotty I think it was said it perfectly -- Wilson is a home run player with a strike-out problem. The way he manages the pocket really hurts his consistency, though it could lead to some big plays. I prefer consistent, methodical approach that can be relied upon in every drive. That is why I don't particularly care for Wilson's style, and don't rate him as highly as others.

Pete loves big plays. Looks like the next few years will leave you disappointed, what with Wilson here to stay.

 

[TXHawk]

Good breakdown. I think the problem is multidimensional....shaky pass protection at times by the OL, questionable playcalling by the OC, a WR corps without any real playmakers, and a QB who has been coached not to make mistakes and holds the ball too long. Wilson has a remarkable ability to escape pressure and turn disaster into a big play and I think sometimes he relies on that too much rather than getting rid of the ball quickly or changing up a play at the line of scrimmage when his OL doesn't have the numbers against a blitz.

 

[Spin Doctor]

This thread echoes the sentiment I've had for a very long time, Wilson makes our line look far worse than it really is. He does not know how to read blitzes very well, nor does he really audible out of obvious mismatches. Part of a QB's job is to put himself and his teammates in a position to succeed in any given play. I don't see that with Wilson.

Scotty I think it was said it perfectly -- Wilson is a home run player with a strike-out problem. The way he manages the pocket really hurts his consistency, though it could lead to some big plays. I prefer consistent, methodical approach that can be relied upon in every drive. That is why I don't particularly care for Wilson's style, and don't rate him as highly as others.

Pete loves big plays. Looks like the next few years will leave you disappointed, what with Wilson here to stay.

I don't mind Wilson as QB, I just think giving him 15-20 percent of the salary cap is absolutely insane given his individual merits, limitations and role within this offense.

 

[Scottemojo]

This thread echoes the sentiment I've had for a very long time, Wilson makes our line look far worse than it really is. He does not know how to read blitzes very well, nor does he really audible out of obvious mismatches. Part of a QB's job is to put himself and his teammates in a position to succeed in any given play. I don't see that with Wilson.

Scotty I think it was said it perfectly -- Wilson is a home run player with a strike-out problem. The way he manages the pocket really hurts his consistency, though it could lead to some big plays. I prefer consistent, methodical approach that can be relied upon in every drive. That is why I don't particularly care for Wilson's style, and don't rate him as highly as others.

Pete loves big plays. Looks like the next few years will leave you disappointed, what with Wilson here to stay.

I don't mind Wilson as QB, I just think giving him 15-20 percent of the salary cap is absolutely insane given his individual merits and role within this offense.

I will be surprised if he gets the size of deal some fear. I hear 20-25 mil, which I think is unlikely. Time will tell, but I think it ends up around 17.

 

[Anthony!]

This thread echoes the sentiment I've had for a very long time, Wilson makes our line look far worse than it really is. He does not know how to read blitzes very well, nor does he really audible out of obvious mismatches. Part of a QB's job is to put himself and his teammates in a position to succeed in any given play. I don't see that with Wilson.

Scotty I think it was said it perfectly -- Wilson is a home run player with a strike-out problem. The way he manages the pocket really hurts his consistency, though it could lead to some big plays. I prefer consistent, methodical approach that can be relied upon in every drive. That is why I don't particularly care for Wilson's style, and don't rate him as highly as others.

Pete loves big plays. Looks like the next few years will leave you disappointed, what with Wilson here to stay.

I don't mind Wilson as QB, I just think giving him 15-20 percent of the salary cap is absolutely insane given his individual merits and role within this offense.

I will be surprised if he gets the size of deal some fear. I hear 20-25 mil, which I think is unlikely. Time will tell, but I think it ends up around 17.

Well for one the cap is supposed to be going to 145MIl so 15% would be 21.7 Mil. Given his merits, what he brings compared to other QBs who have recently been paid he would be worth it. I mean bad oline, bad wr, and bad play calling. As I have pointed out he is doing a lot with a little compared to 90% of the QBs in the league. That said I am betting 18-20 mil which would be 12-14%. The biggest issue with the oline talk, is since everyone wants to ignore the rankings, is we really do not have enough information to really know. We do not know the play, we do not know what blocking assignments have been called, we do not know what routs are being run, what Wilson is and is not allowed to change. We really do not know for sure. The few in here, well really the ONE would like everyone to believe it is all on Wilson and he singlehandedly makes this oline worse and therefore the team worse. I mean if you make a complete unit like the oline worse then you make the team worse. Obviously that is a load of BS, but you are not going to change his opinion or agenda. I do agree sometimes it appears Wilson is the cause of the sack, however again without knowing the info I outlined above we cannot know for sure. I have said form the beginning that Wilson shares some of the blame however I have also said the oline share the most. I stand by that and have seen nothing here to prove otherwise. I posted an article were they broke down all the sacks form last year and only 1 was attributes to Wilson out of 44.

The breakdown was as follows

20 blown blocks (oline) 46%
14 good coverage (defense/WR/Play calling) 32%
8 rusher uncovered (scheme or assignment blown) 18%
1 other pressure 2%
1 QB fault 2%

So looking above the oline was in fact the biggest issue. The qb the least. I suspect it will be the same this year as well. Now some here will say well its Wilson job to change the protection and all of that. However we do not know that for sure. As Brock Huard pointed out it is Wilson’s job to point out issues, and when allowed move a Te or RB to help, but that is all, the protection assignments are decided by the play call and the center. Not the QB. Also interesting was Wilson faced above avg pressure and for the 2nd year in a row he led all QBs in scrambles at 51. Since we know he did not get sacked on every scramble and in fact did not get sacked on most of his scrambles, that tells me there could have been even more sacks if not for Wilson scrambling.

The summation is despite what the ONE thinks or says Wilson is not by any means hurting this team or the biggest issue when it comes to sacks or the oline play. The biggest issue is in fact the oline or more specifically injuries as whenever Unger plays the sacks, hits, and hurries goes way down, and he has the experience to make the proper call for protection the other centers we have do not.
To think a typical "pocket passer" would do better in the exact offense is beyond silly and just plain wrong. They would get killed.

From another thread on this board posted by EntiatHawk "I just heard a Cris Carter interview and he was asked behind close doors in the ESPN war room what was the most common thing said of Wilson. Carter's response was (a little paraphrasing here) "Seattle could not live without him, he is underrated, the amount of plays he makes of the bad plays, free runners in the backfield, the RO where it was just Marshawns favorite play.."Blast (or whatever Seattle calls it)" and for Russell to keep it because he see something with the end closing too fast and no one knows, no one in the building knows, Darrell Bevell does not know. With that skill right there we think Russell is a phenomenal QB" (I guess this comes from the ESPN guys watching film and what they see.)"


This when added to all the plethora of articles, and expert statements about how good and important Wilson is to this team should pretty much end this whole debate for anyone with sense, Of course not the ONE, but everyone else. Again not to say Wilson does not shoulder some of the blame here, all QBs to include Manning and Brady shoulder some of the blame for some of the bad stuff on their team to include their oline. But to try and convince anyone with eyes that Wilson makes this team worse is stupid and wrong.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

I posted an article were they broke down all the sacks form last year and only 1 was attributes to Wilson out of 44.

The breakdown was as follows

20 blown blocks (oline) 46%
14 good coverage (defense/WR/Play calling) 32%
8 rusher uncovered (scheme or assignment blown) 18%
1 other pressure 2%
1 QB fault 2%

Forgive me if I skimmed over it, but can you post the link again? I'd be very interested to read that article.

Now some here will say well its Wilson job to change the protection and all of that. However we do not know that for sure.

That's a convenient line. I could say the same thing about your 46% figure.

 

[TXHawk]

This thread echoes the sentiment I've had for a very long time, Wilson makes our line look far worse than it really is. He does not know how to read blitzes very well, nor does he really audible out of obvious mismatches. Part of a QB's job is to put himself and his teammates in a position to succeed in any given play. I don't see that with Wilson.

Scotty I think it was said it perfectly -- Wilson is a home run player with a strike-out problem. The way he manages the pocket really hurts his consistency, though it could lead to some big plays. I prefer consistent, methodical approach that can be relied upon in every drive. That is why I don't particularly care for Wilson's style, and don't rate him as highly as others.

Pete loves big plays. Looks like the next few years will leave you disappointed, what with Wilson here to stay.

I don't mind Wilson as QB, I just think giving him 15-20 percent of the salary cap is absolutely insane given his individual merits and role within this offense.

I will be surprised if he gets the size of deal some fear. I hear 20-25 mil, which I think is unlikely. Time will tell, but I think it ends up around 17.

Wilson is a top ten QB with a Super Bowl ring and will get paid accordingly. It will be more than $17M.

The reason that good QBs get paid so much is because they have all the leverage. All you have to do is look at all the teams struggling with bad QBs, or all the QBs taken with high picks who have busted, or all the mediocre to bad quarterbacks who have worn the Seahawks uniform over the years to understand how damn hard it is to find a quality QB who is a consistent winner. Russell Wilson is that. You can't let a player like that go to save a few bucks on cap space because it may take years or even decades to find another one. How many good starting quarterbacks have the Seahawks had in their entire history? Wilson, Hasselbeck, and Krieg. That's about it. It's no coincidence that the most success this franchise has ever had prior to this was when Hasselbeck and Krieg were in their primes and Wilson has yet to even hit his prime yet. He's going to get paid fair market value.

 

[kearly]

I will be surprised if he gets the size of deal some fear. I hear 20-25 mil, which I think is unlikely. Time will tell, but I think it ends up around 17.

I think we've already seen evidence that the FO is bracing for 20-25 for Wilson. That's my expectation, based on how aggressive Seattle has been to free up space, despite the salary cap expanding at record rates.

There's also the part about Wilson wanting to own a team someday, like the Mannings. Gonna take a lot of $$$ to realize that dream. Owning as much as 51% of a team would require an unfathomable amount of money.

Seattle did not get discounts from Sherman or Earl last offseason. Those guys got high end money, I think Wilson will too.

And, IMO, he will have earned it.

 

[HawkWow]

Awesome break down, Scott. Causing me to re-think some previous thoughts I had regarding the line. Great stuff and your Xs and Os far superior to my own.