Biggest Challenge: New Talent or New Coaches

[nwHawk]

This might seem strange, but after the season we had and the off-season so far, what is the bigger problem moving forward?

We may end up with so-called retread OC and DC coaches, which may or may not fix our problems, but we still don't have a speed pass rusher, an offensive line or running back stable. Russ has more things to improve than what was previously openly discusssd and he might need a couple of seasons to fix his field vision problems. Will the new coach struggle with the same problems?

And no, I do not want Russ to go. This has nothing to do with him. I'm asking about the skill level of this team now and going into this off-season.

By the way, I wouldn't be surprised if Marc Trestman ends up as our new OC.

 

[original poster]

I voted coaching.

I believe this team has an enormous level of talent, easily top 5 in the league. It's getting as close to 100% out of that talent as possible that is key. That's done through coaching (the vast majority of the time, at least).

Imagine if a few underperforming players could improve next season? Rawls etc.

 

[Russ Willstrong]

I voted coaching.

Using Minnesota as a comparison to us it is remarkable how quickly they turned around that patchwork O line, plugged in different running backs, threw in second-hand QB s and still kept clicking on offense. The vikings strength has always been their defense which is Zimmer's specialty.
What isn't talked about much is the development of their offensive identity and how Zimmer allowed 3 creative minds in 2016 (Norv Turner, Tony Sporano and Pat Shurmur) to bring it all together. Finally, in 2017 When Turner's offense wasn't getting the ball out quick enough he voluntarily stepped down and Shurmur's West Coast style took over. Tony Sporano in conjunction with Shurmur was key to the O line improvement.

Finding good coaching is difficult even when you have vision.

 

[Seymour]

Had to go with talent. We have had a very tough time finding good oline and RB talent over the last 3+ years, and that issue may still be here with the new assistants as well. Protection and a running game are the teams biggest issues, and if those do not improve, the new coordinators are up against the same walls the old ones were.
New schemes may help these issues as well (likely should), but I doubt enough to lift us past 10 wins.

 

[WindCityHawk]

I've got to go with coaching. I think a lot of teams would gladly trade rosters with us. We just need coaches to get the full potential out of it.

Would I love another Marshawn Lynch at RB, or a Julio Jones at WR? Of course, but no team has stars at every position. As it stands, we've got a great QB, a consistent thousand-yard (though a few short this year) receiver in Baldwin, an MLB who's always in the conversation for DPOY, great, or at least dependable and experienced, DBs--you get the idea. This is a very good roster. When it was great, it carried its coaches to a Super Bowl. Now it's the coaches' turn to do some heavy lifting.

There's more than 9 wins worth of talent on this team. Get off to a start at the start of the game, and there's much more than 9 wins worth of talent here.

 

[chris98251]

Coaching, look at Minny, The Rams, the Browns.

Browns have drafted a lot of talent but used it badly in schemes and systems that are not complementing the talent.

Rams and Minny, they revamped a few things hired a few new coaches that took players and looked at what they did well and put a system in place to compliment it, sure they added a few players here and there but dramatic improvements. Minny with Bridgewater, Bradford and Keenum all productive.

Seattle forcing players to play in a system or blocking scheme that was not adaptive or that had been made defunct do to rule changes and or did not compliment the talent was one our biggest downfalls.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I voted coaching.

I believe this team has an enormous level of talent, easily top 5 in the league. It's getting as close to 100% out of that talent as possible that is key. That's done through coaching (the vast majority of the time, at least).

Imagine if a few underperforming players could improve next season? Rawls etc.

I think we're more top 10 now, so I voted new talent will be the bigger issue this off season.

RB
DB
WR
Safety
D-Line
O-line
TE
LB

There really isn't a position group other than QB that we don't need to fill gaping talent holes in, and the depth we have now is aging (or flat out already old).

This IS the biggest challenge year of Pete and John's tenure..................can they restock this roster with legitimate game changing talent, or will this team continue to age and have most of the league pass them by.

 

[TreeRon]

It's BETTER coaches (OC and OL) and BETTER talent at key positions. At the least we need a better left tackle, a better RB, a run stopper and a pass rusher.

 

[HawkerD]

I voted coaching.

I believe this team has an enormous level of talent, easily top 5 in the league. It's getting as close to 100% out of that talent as possible that is key. That's done through coaching (the vast majority of the time, at least).

Imagine if a few underperforming players could improve next season? Rawls etc.

Gotta be homer-ism here. Offensively our talent has got to be in bottom half with the exception of QB. OL and RB is at the very bottom. Defensively we are only really solid at LB and MAYBE Safety. CB are good if Sherman returns to close to his former self. DL is OK but nothing to write home about. I don't think we are even top 10 in talent especially considering how we ended the season.

Talent acquisition was terrible from 2014-2016. Those were 3 VERY BAD years.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Offensively our talent has got to be in bottom half with the exception of QB. OL and RB is at the very bottom.

Bad analysis here, especially given today's revelation of just what Cable has been doing to the OL. Chris Carson was mighty promising even behind that line. Could Rawls be salvaged with real holes to run through? And what about our WR's? Pro Bowlers like Doug Baldwin and Tyler Lockett? 16 touchdowns between Graham and Richardson (if they're re-signed)?

No, we're not "bottom half" anywhere but K.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Offensively our talent has got to be in bottom half with the exception of QB. OL and RB is at the very bottom.

Bad analysis here, especially given today's revelation of just what Cable has been doing to the OL. Chris Carson was mighty promising even behind that line. Could Rawls be salvaged with real holes to run through? And what about our WR's? Pro Bowlers like Doug Baldwin and Tyler Lockett? 16 touchdowns between Graham and Richardson (if they're re-signed)?

No, we're not "bottom half" anywhere but K.

And don't forget Alex Collin's ability to run behind Baltimore's line, but difficulties here (I also get his fumble-tendencies here, which Pete abhors). It's possible our RBs would flourish behind a line that doesn't allow pressure into the backfield before the hand-off.

We could have a beautiful offense; the pieces are there.

 

[Seymour]

Offensively our talent has got to be in bottom half with the exception of QB. OL and RB is at the very bottom.

Bad analysis here, especially given today's revelation of just what Cable has been doing to the OL. Chris Carson was mighty promising even behind that line. Could Rawls be salvaged with real holes to run through? And what about our WR's? Pro Bowlers like Doug Baldwin and Tyler Lockett? 16 touchdowns between Graham and Richardson (if they're re-signed)?

No, we're not "bottom half" anywhere but K.

That is only "todays revelation" to those that did not look far enough into the problem (or did not believe it even was). Sure as hell not all.

How many links and charts of stats need to be posted before people understand Cable cannot pass block?

Roberts just provided a deeper look into why. The numbers have said this all along! :x

 

[chris98251]

Offensively our talent has got to be in bottom half with the exception of QB. OL and RB is at the very bottom.

Bad analysis here, especially given today's revelation of just what Cable has been doing to the OL. Chris Carson was mighty promising even behind that line. Could Rawls be salvaged with real holes to run through? And what about our WR's? Pro Bowlers like Doug Baldwin and Tyler Lockett? 16 touchdowns between Graham and Richardson (if they're re-signed)?

No, we're not "bottom half" anywhere but K.

That is only "todays revelation" to those that did not look far enough into the problem (or did not believe it even was). Sure as hell not all.

How many links and charts of stats need to be posted before people understand Cable cannot pass block?

Roberts just provided a deeper look into why. The numbers have said this all along! :x

The Doomers have been saying this since he was hired, initially gave him credit for being able to get a run game going but always have said he gives two squats about pass protection, then more rule changes and his adaption or lack there of made us look abysmal unless you had a back that could not be stopped when hit in the backfield more often then not.

Lynch gone, run game tanks unless he changed the blocking scheme to a power and had a Fullback like at the end of 2015, but refused to incorporate it full time.

 

[Seymour]

^^^^^

Yes, and too bad for us and our wasted LOB 1 window, that Pete was only willing to review the entire mess when his precious run game finally failed. :roll:

Forget all the friggen evidence that linemen and RB's move on and have better success.

That can't mean much.... :idea: