"Best man/Always Compete"

[JPatera76]

Why in the hell was Pete Carroll playing DJ Dallas ahead of Kenny Macintosh? He's faster, smoother, better vision more complete. He's got to work or be coached on his pass blocking but otherwise the dude looked phenomenal last night. And that's not to knock Holani, he'll be something special as well, but I didn't see as much of him last night, so this isn't about him.

It kind of irritated me to think then and wonder, how many guys like this did we have that Pete chose loyalty over his "best man/always compete" mantra? When did that shift occur? Diggs for example we chalk it up to payday and getting lazy. Was that really the case? Or was it complacency for not having to compete knowing his job was secure with Pete out of JUST loyalty. Adams? And it doesn't end there, look no further than Julian love as well. Pete once again went with loyalty over "best man/always compete" and played Adams when he wasn't injured. He tried this earlier when he started here with Bennett and tried to hide him on the PS but PC learned, if he's going to try that then don't play them at all as teams won't have any tape. Luckily for us Bennett came back to Seattle from Tampa.

Which then also leads me to another question, was the laziness and lack of effort we saw over the last however many years a product of being complacent knowing your coach is loyal to you and your "job" or position is safe, so then there's no one pushing you for it eliminating the actual or TRUE competition to get the starting role. Which then also falls in line with the lack of accountability and well coaching on both sides. We saw, knew and caught on after the SB Loss that Petes loyalty to his coaches were almost to a fault and became, what seemed like a liability. It appeared it translated down to the players overtime as well. And did that affect Pete when it came to draft time? Did he start to like a guy and want him based on a sense of he'll be loyal to me, then did that lead to a plethora of head scratching PC Draft picks over the years?

BUT ultimately my question to you guys/gals is, how many more guys or WHAT players do you feel Pete Carroll put "best man/always compete" on the backburner for and chose loyalty?

 

[IndyHawk]

Damn straight Pete picked a few over John and favored them in
draft, FA and trades.
His favoritism reared its ugly head with Me3 and never stopped.
When you're preaching one thing and doing another, it affected the
whole team.
For sure guys were playing complacent out there and not being taught
by good coaches in Pete's later years.
It all fell on him in the end as it should .. "We're going to make it work"
became old pretty fast.

 

[JPatera76]

Damn straight Pete picked a few over John and favored them in
draft, FA and trades.
His favoritism reared its ugly head with Me3 and never stopped.
When you're preaching one thing and doing another, it affected the
whole team.
For sure guys were playing complacent out there and not being taught
by good coaches in Pete's later years.
It all fell on him in the end as it should .. "We're going to make it work"
became old pretty fast.

Are there any players you feel we may have completely missed out on or cut due to choosing or sticking with the "lesser" player?

 

[MORGULON]

McIntosh was injured . That's why

 

[JPatera76]

McIntosh was injured . That's why

Thats what we were told, But I'm not buying he was injured ALL year, and ALL off-season last year. How many Injuries do you think PC bs'd to either avoid questions or "stash" a guy in order to keep him.

 

[hawkfan68]

Why in the hell was Pete Carroll playing DJ Dallas ahead of Kenny Macintosh? He's faster, smoother, better vision more complete. He's got to work or be coached on his pass blocking but otherwise the dude looked phenomenal last night. And that's not to knock Holani, he'll be something special as well, but I didn't see as much of him last night, so this isn't about him.

It kind of irritated me to think then and wonder, how many guys like this did we have that Pete chose loyalty over his "best man/always compete" mantra? When did that shift occur? Diggs for example we chalk it up to payday and getting lazy. Was that really the case? Or was it complacency for not having to compete knowing his job was secure with Pete out of JUST loyalty. Adams? And it doesn't end there, look no further than Julian love as well. Pete once again went with loyalty over "best man/always compete" and played Adams when he wasn't injured. He tried this earlier when he started here with Bennett and tried to hide him on the PS but PC learned, if he's going to try that then don't play them at all as teams won't have any tape. Luckily for us Bennett came back to Seattle from Tampa.

Which then also leads me to another question, was the laziness and lack of effort we saw over the last however many years a product of being complacent knowing your coach is loyal to you and your "job" or position is safe, so then there's no one pushing you for it eliminating the actual or TRUE competition to get the starting role. Which then also falls in line with the lack of accountability and well coaching on both sides. We saw, knew and caught on after the SB Loss that Petes loyalty to his coaches were almost to a fault and became, what seemed like a liability. It appeared it translated down to the players overtime as well. And did that affect Pete when it came to draft time? Did he start to like a guy and want him based on a sense of he'll be loyal to me, then did that lead to a plethora of head scratching PC Draft picks over the years?

BUT ultimately my question to you guys/gals is, how many more guys or WHAT players do you feel Pete Carroll put "best man/always compete" on the backburner for and chose loyalty?

I find it hard to believe there wasn't a better option than DJ Dallas. Especially on punt returns.

 

[MORGULON]

Thats what we were told, But I'm not buying he was injured ALL year, and ALL off-season last year. How many Injuries do you think PC bs'd to either avoid questions or "stash" a guy in order to keep him.

Point taken.

That does sound like a PC move. He was too slick for his own good at times .

Hubris is a MF

 

[IndyHawk]

Are there any players you feel we may have completely missed out on or cut due to choosing or sticking with the "lesser" player?

That WR with GB is one off my head.. Cutting Glow ect
I know there is more, I'm trying to forget Pete for now lol.

 

[JustTheTip]

My guess is it was a combination of Wilson and the Superbowl loss that caused the shift. I think he lost the locker room on that loss and latched onto players who stood with him from then on out. Which, of course, just made the situation worse.

 

[MORGULON]

My guess is it was a combination of Wilson and the Superbowl loss that caused the shift. I think he lost the locker room on that loss and latched onto players who stood with him from then on out. Which, of course, just made the situation worse.

Great post.

I want to add one of my guesses if I may . I think PC held on to the belief that he could replicate what he did in
2012-2015 (est) with lessor players . He might've been blinded by his own success.

But that SB did him in , no doubt.

 

[JustTheTip]

Also to add, I think throwing Bevell under the bus (where he belonged) and taking Wilson down a notch after that loss could have saved what the team had going. Bevell's behavior (throwing players under the bus) and his not being held accountable showed the players that "always compete" didn't apply to the coaching staff.

 

[Sprfunk]

Why in the hell was Pete Carroll playing DJ Dallas ahead of Kenny Macintosh? He's faster, smoother, better vision more complete. He's got to work or be coached on his pass blocking but otherwise the dude looked phenomenal last night. And that's not to knock Holani, he'll be something special as well, but I didn't see as much of him last night, so this isn't about him.

It kind of irritated me to think then and wonder, how many guys like this did we have that Pete chose loyalty over his "best man/always compete" mantra? When did that shift occur? Diggs for example we chalk it up to payday and getting lazy. Was that really the case? Or was it complacency for not having to compete knowing his job was secure with Pete out of JUST loyalty. Adams? And it doesn't end there, look no further than Julian love as well. Pete once again went with loyalty over "best man/always compete" and played Adams when he wasn't injured. He tried this earlier when he started here with Bennett and tried to hide him on the PS but PC learned, if he's going to try that then don't play them at all as teams won't have any tape. Luckily for us Bennett came back to Seattle from Tampa.

Which then also leads me to another question, was the laziness and lack of effort we saw over the last however many years a product of being complacent knowing your coach is loyal to you and your "job" or position is safe, so then there's no one pushing you for it eliminating the actual or TRUE competition to get the starting role. Which then also falls in line with the lack of accountability and well coaching on both sides. We saw, knew and caught on after the SB Loss that Petes loyalty to his coaches were almost to a fault and became, what seemed like a liability. It appeared it translated down to the players overtime as well. And did that affect Pete when it came to draft time? Did he start to like a guy and want him based on a sense of he'll be loyal to me, then did that lead to a plethora of head scratching PC Draft picks over the years?

BUT ultimately my question to you guys/gals is, how many more guys or WHAT players do you feel Pete Carroll put "best man/always compete" on the backburner for and chose loyalty?

I hated seeing the Seahawks try to park Bennitt on the p Squad. I could not believe they would be dumb enough to even try. It was such a irrational move, and to top it off they kept 2 kickers far too long. However PC was in USC at the time and JS was at Greenbay. That was the Jim Moran year.
Macantosh was hurt last year so I give that a pass.
Also, PC must have had a part in identifying Macantosh in the first place, and therefore we have him.

That being said, PC did treat certain player differently, and it was part of the problem. Then again, qbs always get special treatment, regardless of team.
There where a lot of players that wanted the shine and didn't like Wilson taking the attention of them.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I'm not going to pretend I'm the biggest DeeJay Dallas fan, but he isn't as abysmal as people think he is.

In 2022, he averaged 5.3 per carry. 2023 was worse, but it was worse for all of our backs.

DeeJay never got significant touches anyway - never eclipsed 40 carries in a season for us and only had 10 last year.

Kenny looked smooth last night, but DeeJay was a perfectly reasonable third running back. He's a better blocker, he's bigger, he's about as fast as McIntosh while being 15 pounds heavier, and he offered return game flexibility as well (even being a generally good returner last year in terms of average return).

Kenny, in contrast, was a deep seventh round rookie who tested really poorly and then got injured in camp, so he was at a severe disadvantage. I think it's really, really unlikely that Kenny actually did enough to earn playing time over DeeJay in his first year. DeeJay was a veteran who went through camp, knew the offense, and in reality really was not as bad as people remember him for an RB3.

I like McIntosh. He's fun, he offers utility in the passing game, and he can be a good third down back on passing situations if he can develop his blocking a bit. I just think it's odd that so many in the fanbase immediately anointed him over DeeJay when, in reality, dude was brand new and not even practicing in camp. Him being gifted playtime would've been an even bigger slap in the face to the Always Compete mantra.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I find it hard to believe there wasn't a better option than DJ Dallas. Especially on punt returns.

There probably actually wasn't. He was significantly better than average on returns last year. Returns were way down league-wide in 2023.

 

[keasley45]

Why in the hell was Pete Carroll playing DJ Dallas ahead of Kenny Macintosh? He's faster, smoother, better vision more complete. He's got to work or be coached on his pass blocking but otherwise the dude looked phenomenal last night. And that's not to knock Holani, he'll be something special as well, but I didn't see as much of him last night, so this isn't about him.

It kind of irritated me to think then and wonder, how many guys like this did we have that Pete chose loyalty over his "best man/always compete" mantra? When did that shift occur? Diggs for example we chalk it up to payday and getting lazy. Was that really the case? Or was it complacency for not having to compete knowing his job was secure with Pete out of JUST loyalty. Adams? And it doesn't end there, look no further than Julian love as well. Pete once again went with loyalty over "best man/always compete" and played Adams when he wasn't injured. He tried this earlier when he started here with Bennett and tried to hide him on the PS but PC learned, if he's going to try that then don't play them at all as teams won't have any tape. Luckily for us Bennett came back to Seattle from Tampa.

Which then also leads me to another question, was the laziness and lack of effort we saw over the last however many years a product of being complacent knowing your coach is loyal to you and your "job" or position is safe, so then there's no one pushing you for it eliminating the actual or TRUE competition to get the starting role. Which then also falls in line with the lack of accountability and well coaching on both sides. We saw, knew and caught on after the SB Loss that Petes loyalty to his coaches were almost to a fault and became, what seemed like a liability. It appeared it translated down to the players overtime as well. And did that affect Pete when it came to draft time? Did he start to like a guy and want him based on a sense of he'll be loyal to me, then did that lead to a plethora of head scratching PC Draft picks over the years?

BUT ultimately my question to you guys/gals is, how many more guys or WHAT players do you feel Pete Carroll put "best man/always compete" on the backburner for and chose loyalty?

I thinks DJ got the nod because he knew the protections.

That being said, you cant develop a feel for pressure pickup if you dont get the opportunities. And Pete definitely softened / lost his edge in his old age and prioritized safety and relationships over competition.

It wasnt just players. There were plays and aspects of the game that were deemed 'unnecessary risks'.- the punt return game is an example. Rather than actually using a guy like Eskridge in an area he could excel, Dallas or Tyler were sent back to call fair catches rather than trying to flip the field or hit the big play.

But the softening Pete showed isnt uncommon among coaches or leaders in general.

Pete is the same dude who pre 2015 had Harvin and Washington lighting uo the return game at every turn.

Dude just went into a shell as the years went on.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I thinks DJ got the nod because he knew the protections.

That being said, you cant develop a feel for pressure pickup if you dont get the opportunities. And Pete definitely softened / lost his edge in his old age and prioritized safety and relationships over competition.

It wasnt just players. There were plays and aspects of the game that were deemed 'unnecessary risks'.- the punt return game is an example. Rather than actually using a guy like Eskridge in an area he could excel, Dallas or Tyler were sent back to call fair catches rather than trying to flip the field or hit the big play.

But the softening Pete showed isnt uncommon among coaches or leaders in general.

Pete is the same dude who pre 2015 had Harvin and Washington lighting uo the return game at every turn.

Dude just went into a shell as the years went on.

DeeJay took the 11th most punt returns in the NFL last year on a team that was 26th best at forcing punts. I just can't get behind the narrative on DeeJay taking fair catches back there.

 

[Chapow]

I'm not going to pretend I'm the biggest DeeJay Dallas fan, but he isn't as abysmal as people think he is.

In 2022, he averaged 5.3 per carry. 2023 was worse, but it was worse for all of our backs.

DeeJay never got significant touches anyway - never eclipsed 40 carries in a season for us and only had 10 last year.

Kenny looked smooth last night, but DeeJay was a perfectly reasonable third running back. He's a better blocker, he's bigger, he's about as fast as McIntosh while being 15 pounds heavier, and he offered return game flexibility as well (even being a generally good returner last year in terms of average return).

Kenny, in contrast, was a deep seventh round rookie who tested really poorly and then got injured in camp, so he was at a severe disadvantage. I think it's really, really unlikely that Kenny actually did enough to earn playing time over DeeJay in his first year. DeeJay was a veteran who went through camp, knew the offense, and in reality really was not as bad as people remember him for an RB3.

I like McIntosh. He's fun, he offers utility in the passing game, and he can be a good third down back on passing situations if he can develop his blocking a bit. I just think it's odd that so many in the fanbase immediately anointed him over DeeJay when, in reality, dude was brand new and not even practicing in camp. Him being gifted playtime would've been an even bigger slap in the face to the Always Compete mantra.

This. Exactly this.

I have no idea what leads anyone to believe that McIntosh earned touches over DeeJay last year.

 

[Nv_Hawks]

Why in the hell was Pete Carroll playing DJ Dallas ahead of Kenny Macintosh? He's faster, smoother, better vision more complete. He's got to work or be coached on his pass blocking but otherwise the dude looked phenomenal last night. And that's not to knock Holani, he'll be something special as well, but I didn't see as much of him last night, so this isn't about him.

It kind of irritated me to think then and wonder, how many guys like this did we have that Pete chose loyalty over his "best man/always compete" mantra? When did that shift occur? Diggs for example we chalk it up to payday and getting lazy. Was that really the case? Or was it complacency for not having to compete knowing his job was secure with Pete out of JUST loyalty. Adams? And it doesn't end there, look no further than Julian love as well. Pete once again went with loyalty over "best man/always compete" and played Adams when he wasn't injured. He tried this earlier when he started here with Bennett and tried to hide him on the PS but PC learned, if he's going to try that then don't play them at all as teams won't have any tape. Luckily for us Bennett came back to Seattle from Tampa.

Which then also leads me to another question, was the laziness and lack of effort we saw over the last however many years a product of being complacent knowing your coach is loyal to you and your "job" or position is safe, so then there's no one pushing you for it eliminating the actual or TRUE competition to get the starting role. Which then also falls in line with the lack of accountability and well coaching on both sides. We saw, knew and caught on after the SB Loss that Petes loyalty to his coaches were almost to a fault and became, what seemed like a liability. It appeared it translated down to the players overtime as well. And did that affect Pete when it came to draft time? Did he start to like a guy and want him based on a sense of he'll be loyal to me, then did that lead to a plethora of head scratching PC Draft picks over the years?

BUT ultimately my question to you guys/gals is, how many more guys or WHAT players do you feel Pete Carroll put "best man/always compete" on the backburner for and chose loyalty?

 

[Chukarhawk]

Mcintosh has something Dallas will never have. Vision. Physically about as average as you can get but his vision makes him an asset.

 

[Nv_Hawks]

It should tell you everything you want to know, when they draft DL and try and turn them into OL. Who the hell does that? They thought too highly of themselves.