Art Thiel ask if its Time to trade Russell

[IndyHawk]

Take the comeback stats and throw them out. Fair is fair. A comeback is meaningless when you create tje situation in first place by playing like a 3rd string QB for 2.5 quarters.

It is self induced bs of a lie heroics. It should never get to that point. If RW doesn't improve in that area then sourcing another QB is absolutely warranted. It's not acceptable.

The crappy first half starts didn't happen until the 2017 season. So you want to erase all the comebacks in his previous 5 years and call that "fair"? Sounds like a slighted opinion to me.

It's always been there. It just wasn't as clearly visible to most because we had a running game. RW had never been a QB who comes out throwing accurately. It's always taken him a while to loosen up. It's yet another way he reminds me of McNabb.

This is true ..RW has always seemed to take a half or more to get going
and a great D with a running game masked those late starts.
I was never on this elite bandwagon for reasons such as this.
He is good guy and a tough sob..I will give him that..

 

[TwistedHusky]

We don't know how much of it is his fault.

He runs the offense he is given.

I wish he was more belligerent & demanding, more focused on putting up more TDs but he is the closest thing to a company man on that team.

We just need to know why they ran that damn offense in the first place, were they shielding Russell or holding him back?

 

[Sac]

When you're talking about statistics with video evidence that's not an assumption. It's not alternative facts either.

The only game where Russ had a 4th quarter comeback or game winning drive where I'd peg him as the party primarily responsible for the deficit to begin with would be the NFC Championship game against the Packers. That's it.

You have a tough case to make to try and convince most anyone else otherwise.

 

[Steve2222]

Y'all don't need to be bi-polar about this. Hawks need to plan ahead for potential future replacements just like any other position. Step back and take the crazy out of it.

Future replacement? The guys not even 30. Great QBs (which he is) play into their 40s.

 

[AROS]

For a thread like this I can only offer my thoughts in haiku.

Oh Arty enough.
Appreciate the good laugh.
Man desperate for clicks.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I would do it.

I would only do it with Cleveland.

I would demand picks 1, 4, 33 this year
Next years 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders
2020's 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounders
2021's 1st rounder
AND G Joel Bitonio.

(So basically yeah, I wouldn't do it.)

 

[hawknation2018]

 

[erik2690]

Take the comeback stats and throw them out. Fair is fair. A comeback is meaningless when you create tje situation in first place by playing like a 3rd string QB for 2.5 quarters.

It is self induced bs of a lie heroics. It should never get to that point. If RW doesn't improve in that area then sourcing another QB is absolutely warranted. It's not acceptable.

The crappy first half starts didn't happen until the 2017 season. So you want to erase all the comebacks in his previous 5 years and call that "fair"? Sounds like a slighted opinion to me.

It's always been there. It just wasn't as clearly visible to most because we had a running game. RW had never been a QB who comes out throwing accurately. It's always taken him a while to loosen up. It's yet another way he reminds me of McNabb.

The stats don't back this up though so what are you basing this on? Wilson's highest comp% Q is Q1 so citing accuracy early as the one thing to bolster your point kinda makes it seem like you are pulling it out of you know where. His 1st/2nd half stat splits for his career are not wildly variant at all. He gets way fewer attempts in Q1 than any other quarter so maybe that's tricking you a little bit but that's design more than poor play. The other user was correct, the wild quarter variants only really happened in 2017. All these stats are publicly available. Using your 'memory' of games or whatever else has huge flaws and when a stat sample size is 5 seasons it gets pretty telling.


Just a fun FYI I found in the stat splits is that you should always let Wilson have the ball on 2nd and long. Absolute assassin stats in that situation with a large sample size.

 

[erik2690]

Take the comeback stats and throw them out. Fair is fair. A comeback is meaningless when you create tje situation in first place by playing like a 3rd string QB for 2.5 quarters.

It is self induced bs of a lie heroics. It should never get to that point. If RW doesn't improve in that area then sourcing another QB is absolutely warranted. It's not acceptable.

The crappy first half starts didn't happen until the 2017 season. So you want to erase all the comebacks in his previous 5 years and call that "fair"? Sounds like a slighted opinion to me.

I believe the NFCCG vs. Green Bay occured earlier than 2017.....a perfect example of classic Russ.

This has been a trend....well pretty much always with RW. I didn't even know it was a debate, figured it was just...known.

Wait......your counter is to point to literally 1 game? I mean sample size matters big time. That's not a sensible counter argument at all.

 

[erik2690]

I wish he was more belligerent & demanding, more focused on putting up more TDs but he is the closest thing to a company man on that team.

I'm confused honestly. He lead the league in TD's. What does "focusing" more on them mean if not leading the league in them?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Because people choose to dislike the guy. It has been going on his entire career. No mo matter what he does, not good enough for many. As far as NFC Championship goes, butterfingers Kearse was a massive reason they got on that hole.

 

[Seymour]

They are talking about extending or even franchising Wilson after his contract expires in 2 years on 950. He will very likely be north of $30M, and his 2nd franchise tag (if they went that route) would be $39 million dollars!!!

 

[vin.couve12]

:yawn: You may not have a choice to replace RW this very next season. Especially if it's a very serious leg injury where it robs RW if any speed or quickness he has left while approaching 30. He better start becoming a pure pocket passer real quick.

Or he could have a career threatening injury. Y'all are always talking about Tom Brady and the pats...know what BB always has? A developing backup that gets PAID more often than not.

It's not to late to start being smart rather than emotional.

 

[Seymour]

I wish he was more belligerent & demanding, more focused on putting up more TDs but he is the closest thing to a company man on that team.

I'm confused honestly. He lead the league in TD's. What does "focusing" more on them mean if not leading the league in them?

I think for some at least, that means focusing on the ones he didn't get, and use that to run him out of town.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yeah, Russell Wilson isn't focused on scoring TD's. It hurts your head to read some of the crap on here sometimes......

 

[TwistedHusky]

Wilson scores lots of TDs.

But a large reason he has so many is because there are no TD vultures.

Very rarely are we completing a drive with a RB running for the score.

Contrast that with the #s for a typical NFL offense.

Inside the 5, many offenses are going to score TDs with their RB. We probably aren't.

You could argue that he gets his TD totals inflated by the fact that there is little to no element by which the team can reasonably be expected to score TDs. Most of the other QBs will have their TD count reduced by at least 1/4 to 1/3 just because those scores are being made in the run game.

So the problem is that while WILSON scores lots of TDs, he is the face of an offense that is literally setting records for ineffectiveness in scoring TDs. We had one stretch over the past few years where we went MULTIPLE GAMES without being able to score a TD.

Additionally, our ability to score TDs in drives during the 1st-2nd quarters is well documented. We are not just terrible, we are historically bad.

I am betting that while Wilson scores more TDs than other QBs, his % effectiveness at scoring TDs per drive is likely worse than most QBs. But I have not checked the #s and it probably is not even his fault if this is true.

What I am clear on is that Wilson does not seem too upset about barely bothering to score in the 1st through 2nd quarters. And that inability to put points on the board in the first half of the game has cost us both games, and likely a trip to the playoffs.

Putting up more TDs than other QBs on a team that fails to score TDs at a historic clip is probably not putting up enough. And you cannot say he is doing all he can because we do almost nothing for a full half unless we fall behind. Maybe he is doing all he is ALLOWED to, but that is a different issue.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Right, because you know what Wilson is thinking. Yeah, I'm sure he's plenty happy to not score TD's until the 4th quarter. Did this guy do something to you personally? Is he supposed to freak out and scream in people's faces if they don't score a TD? I'll take a guy who believes that they are never out of the game and never gives up.

 

[TwistedHusky]

I can think of a number of QBs that would be visibly and publicly upset with a system that limited TDs until the 4th or unless behind. And that kind of campaign would very likely result in a change that led to more 1st to 2nd quarter TDs.

One of them has a last name Rodgers.

Can you think of a few ?

Now, why is Wilson silent on this? Considering this would impact W/L and playoff possibilities? In fact, I can think of very few supposedly 'elite' QBs that would tolerate this at all. Why does Wilson?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

You have convinced yourself that one of the most competitive players in the league is satisfied with just scoring touchdowns in the second half. Believe what you want. Your Wilson hate is showing, as usual.
Oh well, Go Hawks

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So the problem is that while WILSON scores lots of TDs, he is the face of an offense that is literally setting records for ineffectiveness in scoring TDs. We had one stretch over the past few years where we went MULTIPLE GAMES without being able to score a TD..

2017 #7 in league in TD's
2016 #18 in league
2015 #6 in league
2014 # 11 in league

The only outlier in scoring TD rank is 2016..........which just so happens to be the year Russell was hurt all year. So if there's any indictment to his value on this team, it's making the case for the opposite of what you're saying. He's even MORE important and vital to this offense, because when he's hurt this offense is downright terrible.

And yes, the first half futility is well documented, and part of that is on Russell. So we'll see if the coordinator and shift back to the run game helps the offense be more productive in the first half.

But make no mistake, this team scores TD's, and Russell's the biggest reason.