Arizonas Dominance

[rideaducati]

I'm just glad we didn't have to see Drew Stanton dance like a gorilla on ex-lax this time around. All that celebration from a player that had zip impact in a game.

I wanted to see Tarvaris doing that, but the game was soooooo out of hand that he was actually playing in the damn game. Opportunity missed.

 

[Hawkpower]

I'm just glad we didn't have to see Drew Stanton dance like a gorilla on ex-lax this time around. All that celebration from a player that had zip impact in a game.

Well he did throw two picks

Still hoping Ringless changes his profile pic to an intercepting throwing Stanton.

 

[ringless]

The irony in this thread is pretty amazing.

Just look in the we mailed it in thread from last week

A lot of you last week (Hawkpower) called last week a meaningless game. Which was an excuse. So whats the difference if some Cards fans feel that way.

If thats the case then when the Hawks played the Rams it was a meaningful game in which their best wasn't good enough. Correct? And if it wasnt then how do you know how the Cards truly did or didn't feel? In any case you guys changed your attitude pretty quick on that. Rather pathetic double standard to say that last week and then disregard a similar situation this week for the opposition. It's embarrassing

Hawkpowers excuses last week before tables turned:

This team has been in a "win or the season is practically over" mode for the last 5 weeks due to the hole they dug early in the year.

Considering the meaningless nature of todays game, it sucks, but may be chalked up to human nature.

We could also blame injuries finally catching up, horrid officiating, etc. that ended up making the lack of focus seem even worse.

So as you can see. Its hard to put much faith in what you guys have to say. When just last week you were using that same "Excuse" :1:

 

[Polaris]

The irony in this thread is pretty amazing.

Just look in the we mailed it in thread from last week

A lot of you last week (Hawkpower) called last week a meaningless game. Which was an excuse. So whats the difference if some Cards fans feel that way.

If thats the case then when the Hawks played the Rams it was a meaningful game in which their best wasn't good enough. Correct? And if it wasnt then how do you know how the Cards truly did or didn't feel? In any case you guys changed your attitude pretty quick on that. Rather pathetic double standard to say that last week and then disregard a similar situation this week for the opposition. It's embarrassing

OK, here's the difference. While we acknowledged that the game was essentially meaningless, there was a good deal of worry and concern about what the Rams were able to do. In short while mathematically the game was next to meaningless, we took the defeat to heart and understood that as good as Seattle has been playing we are mortal.

I fail to see any sort of that (IMHO much needed) humility from the Cardinal fans. Enough said. [Edit: Or head coach, or players, or anyone associated with the Cardinals which makes this worse. Pete was LIVID on Monday after the Rams loss and was quite public about it, "meaningless" or not.]

 

[rideaducati]

The irony in this thread is pretty amazing.

Just look in the we mailed it in thread from last week

A lot of you last week (Hawkpower) called last week a meaningless game. Which was an excuse. So whats the difference if some Cards fans feel that way.

If thats the case then when the Hawks played the Rams it was a meaningful game in which their best wasn't good enough. Correct? And if it wasnt then how do you know how the Cards truly did or didn't feel? In any case you guys changed your attitude pretty quick on that. Rather pathetic double standard to say that last week and then disregard a similar situation this week for the opposition. It's embarrassing

OK, here's the difference. While we acknowledged that the game was essentially meaningless, there was a good deal of worry and concern about what the Rams were able to do. In short while mathematically the game was next to meaningless, we took the defeat to heart and understood that as good as Seattle has been playing we are mortal.

I fail to see any sort of that (IMHO much needed) humility from the Cardinal fans. Enough said.

It's okay...we now know that the cards basically threw the game. I bet they end up throwing their next game against the Seahawks too...

 

[ringless]

The irony in this thread is pretty amazing.

Just look in the we mailed it in thread from last week

A lot of you last week (Hawkpower) called last week a meaningless game. Which was an excuse. So whats the difference if some Cards fans feel that way.

If thats the case then when the Hawks played the Rams it was a meaningful game in which their best wasn't good enough. Correct? And if it wasnt then how do you know how the Cards truly did or didn't feel? In any case you guys changed your attitude pretty quick on that. Rather pathetic double standard to say that last week and then disregard a similar situation this week for the opposition. It's embarrassing

OK, here's the difference. While we acknowledged that the game was essentially meaningless, there was a good deal of worry and concern about what the Rams were able to do. In short while mathematically the game was next to meaningless, we took the defeat to heart and understood that as good as Seattle has been playing we are mortal.

I fail to see any sort of that (IMHO much needed) humility from the Cardinal fans. Enough said. [Edit: Or head coach, or players, or anyone associated with the Cardinals which makes this worse. Pete was LIVID on Monday after the Rams loss and was quite public about it, "meaningless" or not.]

I know the Cards are mortal. No doubt about that. I never expect any game to be easy and I know we have weaknesses. I haven't seen Palmer throw one good pass in the last two weeks that wasnt overthrown that was deeper than 15 yards. I also think we have a QB with a finger issue and it shows in the film. The fact we rely so heavily on the blitz is and will continue to be a problem.

 

[Polaris]

The irony in this thread is pretty amazing.

Just look in the we mailed it in thread from last week

A lot of you last week (Hawkpower) called last week a meaningless game. Which was an excuse. So whats the difference if some Cards fans feel that way.

If thats the case then when the Hawks played the Rams it was a meaningful game in which their best wasn't good enough. Correct? And if it wasnt then how do you know how the Cards truly did or didn't feel? In any case you guys changed your attitude pretty quick on that. Rather pathetic double standard to say that last week and then disregard a similar situation this week for the opposition. It's embarrassing

OK, here's the difference. While we acknowledged that the game was essentially meaningless, there was a good deal of worry and concern about what the Rams were able to do. In short while mathematically the game was next to meaningless, we took the defeat to heart and understood that as good as Seattle has been playing we are mortal.

I fail to see any sort of that (IMHO much needed) humility from the Cardinal fans. Enough said.

It's okay...we now know that the cards basically threw the game. I bet they end up throwing their next game against the Seahawks too...

:sarcasm_on: You're right. I forgot that DVOA shows that Arizona is the best team in the NFL and far and away proves Arizona's dominance. :sarcasm_off:

Oh wait.......it doesn't.

 

[Laloosh]

The irony in this thread is pretty amazing.

Just look in the we mailed it in thread from last week

A lot of you last week (Hawkpower) called last week a meaningless game. Which was an excuse. So whats the difference if some Cards fans feel that way.

If thats the case then when the Hawks played the Rams it was a meaningful game in which their best wasn't good enough. Correct? And if it wasnt then how do you know how the Cards truly did or didn't feel? In any case you guys changed your attitude pretty quick on that. Rather pathetic double standard to say that last week and then disregard a similar situation this week for the opposition. It's embarrassing

Hawkpowers excuses last week before tables turned:

This team has been in a "win or the season is practically over" mode for the last 5 weeks due to the hole they dug early in the year.

Considering the meaningless nature of todays game, it sucks, but may be chalked up to human nature.

We could also blame injuries finally catching up, horrid officiating, etc. that ended up making the lack of focus seem even worse.

I'll go out on a limb and say that playing for a #1 seed is a bit different than playing for the 5th or 6th seed. I don't subscribe to the idea that the Rams loss didn't matter. You saying that some fans on a fan forum blowing smoke is anywhere near comparable to the head coach of a team doing so, is a reach at best. He's full of it and everybody but some cards fans know it.

Had a conversation with a neighbor at the store on game day and all he could talk about was how they might have a chance at that #1 seed. "Any given Sunday", he said about the Carolina game. Haven't seen him yet but I doubt he'll be talking about how he didn't care about that one.

To each their own I guess but I don't buy that crap for a second.

 

[Polaris]

The irony in this thread is pretty amazing.

Just look in the we mailed it in thread from last week

A lot of you last week (Hawkpower) called last week a meaningless game. Which was an excuse. So whats the difference if some Cards fans feel that way.

If thats the case then when the Hawks played the Rams it was a meaningful game in which their best wasn't good enough. Correct? And if it wasnt then how do you know how the Cards truly did or didn't feel? In any case you guys changed your attitude pretty quick on that. Rather pathetic double standard to say that last week and then disregard a similar situation this week for the opposition. It's embarrassing

OK, here's the difference. While we acknowledged that the game was essentially meaningless, there was a good deal of worry and concern about what the Rams were able to do. In short while mathematically the game was next to meaningless, we took the defeat to heart and understood that as good as Seattle has been playing we are mortal.

I fail to see any sort of that (IMHO much needed) humility from the Cardinal fans. Enough said. [Edit: Or head coach, or players, or anyone associated with the Cardinals which makes this worse. Pete was LIVID on Monday after the Rams loss and was quite public about it, "meaningless" or not.]

I know the Cards are mortal. No doubt about that. I never expect any game to be easy and I know we have weaknesses. I haven't seen Palmer throw one good pass in the last two weeks that wasnt overthrown that was deeper than 15 yards. I also think we have a QB with a finger issue and it shows in the film. The fact we rely so heavily on the blitz is and will continue to be a problem.

This is the first reasonable post-game post and statement I've heard from a Cardinals fan (or coach or player) at any level....and I had to coax it out of you. Consider that if you wonder why you and your soulmate are being blasted here today. The truth is that Arizona does blitz way too much and Arians is prone to take way too many chances (we was that way in Indy and Pittsburgh as well). If luck is on your side (or if your opponents have less talent) you look brilliant. If it's not and the opponent can read and react to the blitz, you get results like yesterday.

 

[Nothinbutm]

The irony in this thread is pretty amazing.

Just look in the we mailed it in thread from last week

A lot of you last week (Hawkpower) called last week a meaningless game. Which was an excuse. So whats the difference if some Cards fans feel that way.

If thats the case then when the Hawks played the Rams it was a meaningful game in which their best wasn't good enough. Correct? And if it wasnt then how do you know how the Cards truly did or didn't feel? In any case you guys changed your attitude pretty quick on that. Rather pathetic double standard to say that last week and then disregard a similar situation this week for the opposition. It's embarrassing

OK, here's the difference. While we acknowledged that the game was essentially meaningless, there was a good deal of worry and concern about what the Rams were able to do. In short while mathematically the game was next to meaningless, we took the defeat to heart and understood that as good as Seattle has been playing we are mortal.

I fail to see any sort of that (IMHO much needed) humility from the Cardinal fans. Enough said. [Edit: Or head coach, or players, or anyone associated with the Cardinals which makes this worse. Pete was LIVID on Monday after the Rams loss and was quite public about it, "meaningless" or not.]

I know the Cards are mortal. No doubt about that. I never expect any game to be easy and I know we have weaknesses. I haven't seen Palmer throw one good pass in the last two weeks that wasnt overthrown that was deeper than 15 yards. I also think we have a QB with a finger issue and it shows in the film. The fact we rely so heavily on the blitz is and will continue to be a problem.

Ringless, first off, hats off to you for coming to this board for some intelligent and respectful discourse. It's not that often where that happens in general, not just sports. I come on this board every day and have done so for the most part since my join date. I don't post often but I always read this board due to the personalities and intelligence of the group, collectively. You come in here and take your lumps and keep coming back. I tip my hat sir, and I will continue to do that.

Now, that being said, your coach is an asshat. I have always respected the Cardinals. When Kurt Warner and the Fitz were tearing up defenses not too long ago, it was a helluva sight to see. Your defense back than with Adrian Wilson and Antrel Rolle wasn't a bad group at all either. It's definitely my opinion that Wisenhunt was the architect for the group that Arians is currently utilizing. The comments your current head coach makes are pretty petty at times and seems like the aftermath of a bully who just got bullied himself. He's a good coach, and I personally knew Carson Palmer's brother for a time since we both went to the same university. But holy hell, how can you defend the guy with any shade of genuine objectivity?

I do believe it was far easier for AZ to let the gas off of the pedal than for Seattle to. The Seahawks, since Carroll took over, just don't have it in their blood to lie down without a reaction of some sort. We exposed some glaring holes in your defense (and probably even moreso on your offense since you only put up 6 points and were ranked the #1 offense in the NFL). Much like how the Rams exposed some things against Seattle. But Arizona did lay down, and didn't know how to turn it back on and that is extremely indicative of the coaching staff.

The meaningless comments wash out. If it were meaningless, the starters would have been pulled en mass, not just Palmer. Confidence is a huge thing in this game. You match that up with intelligence, talent, and passion, that is an insanely dangerous combination. Arizona is definitely missing some of those aspects. I like Carson and always have. When Kimo van Oelhoffen destroyed Palmer's knee when he was in Cincinnati, I genuinely felt remorse because it looked like they were going places in the playoffs that year under Marvin. Now he's in a great environment where he can flourish in a system that is conducive to being more than just productive.

If Seattle gets booted from the playoffs, which if they played like they did in week 17 that won't happen, I'll definitely be rooting for you guys because of Palmer and Fitz. They both deserve a ring.

Now, all that being said, Arians can choke on a hot dog in the Arizona heat. Carry on Ringless and it's a treat to have you here.

 

[bigskydoc]

. I honestly did not see us running the same style of offense we have in the past. That was not the AZ offense out there. I feel that way, and I think the more knowledgeable posters would agree that AZ wasnt running their typical concepts today. .

Funny how often we hear this exact sentiment from opposing fans after they run into the buzz saw that is the Seattle Defense. Reference SB XLVIII and the greatest offense ever.

-bsd

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

The irony in this thread is pretty amazing.

Just look in the we mailed it in thread from last week

A lot of you last week (Hawkpower) called last week a meaningless game. Which was an excuse. So whats the difference if some Cards fans feel that way.

If thats the case then when the Hawks played the Rams it was a meaningful game in which their best wasn't good enough. Correct? And if it wasnt then how do you know how the Cards truly did or didn't feel? In any case you guys changed your attitude pretty quick on that. Rather pathetic double standard to say that last week and then disregard a similar situation this week for the opposition. It's embarrassing

Hawkpowers excuses last week before tables turned:

This team has been in a "win or the season is practically over" mode for the last 5 weeks due to the hole they dug early in the year.

Considering the meaningless nature of todays game, it sucks, but may be chalked up to human nature.

We could also blame injuries finally catching up, horrid officiating, etc. that ended up making the lack of focus seem even worse.

So as you can see. Its hard to put much faith in what you guys have to say. When just last week you were using that same "Excuse" :1:

So, why do you continu3 to han6 around Then? We must nOt 6e worth your time. Do you know how to decipher meaning from an otherwise meaningless game?

We often speak in code because we are not looking for those with a disingenuous faith on our board. We all have a secret code language others are not privy to, but perhaps you'll be granted eyes to see and ears to hear so that something might finally jump out at you.

 

[Ambrose83]

. I honestly did not see us running the same style of offense we have in the past. That was not the AZ offense out there. I feel that way, and I think the more knowledgeable posters would agree that AZ wasnt running their typical concepts today. .

Funny how often we hear this exact sentiment from opposing fans after they run into the buzz saw that is the Seattle Defense. Reference SB XLVIII and the greatest offense ever.

-bsd

No shit...

 

[Hawkpower]

The hawks played in a true meaningless game against the rams, played like crap, and rebounded like champs.

The cards played in a game that was for the #1 seed as far as they knew going in. That shouldn't have been a meaningless mindset going in. To say otherwise is an excuse. Carolina lost to the reeling falcons last week, to think there was no chance is revisionist theory.

That's the difference.

We will see if the cards can respond like the hawks after a crappy game

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Now, that being said, your coach is an asshat. I have always respected the Cardinals. When Kurt Warner and the Fitz were tearing up defenses not too long ago, it was a helluva sight to see. Your defense back than with Adrian Wilson and Antrel Rolle wasn't a bad group at all either. It's definitely my opinion that Wisenhunt was the architect for the group that Arians is currently utilizing. The comments your current head coach makes are pretty petty at times and seems like the aftermath of a bully who just got bullied himself. He's a good coach, and I personally knew Carson Palmer's brother for a time since we both went to the same university. But holy hell, how can you defend the guy with any shade of genuine objectivity?

Whoa now - I listen to a lot of Seahawks opinions about Arians, but the above is out of touch with reality. Keim turned over the roster immediately with BA and everything changed...everything (3 of those players were not on Arians roster, btw). Coach Whis was definitely NOT the architect for Arians, that would be like me saying Pete Carroll led the Seahawks using a blueprint that were architected by Holmgren (ignoring Mora).

 

[Largent80]

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[Scottemojo]

I know the Cards are mortal. No doubt about that. I never expect any game to be easy and I know we have weaknesses. I haven't seen Palmer throw one good pass in the last two weeks that wasnt overthrown that was deeper than 15 yards. I also think we have a QB with a finger issue and it shows in the film. The fact we rely so heavily on the blitz is and will continue to be a problem.

This thread has life when it should be dead because a Cards fan living in Seattle and all pissed off about it failed to show up.

But the above is what is missing from these threads.

I don't think Seattle is 30-6 better than the AZ starters. And in fact about 4 weeks back I tried to post with the other Cards fan who is here primarily to be a tribalistic troll that some of the difference we see in Glendale vs Seattle was that the speed advantage they have at WR is gone on that slower grass track.

Also, it is a huge difference when Earl is worried about Cary Williams, or not worried about Jeremy Lane.

But mostly, AZ's line did not come to play. Vheldeer got his ass handed to him. They looked bad and slow trying to open holes for the RB. (also, while David Johnson can be electric at RB from time to time,w hen the blocking is great, he doesn't create many of his own runs. Out of college, I loved him as a WR conversion, and I still think he could be a dominant WR in the NFL) AZ's line showed vulnerabilities in the first meeting, but so did our secondary.

Also, 10 passes defensed and what, 4 or 5 dropped? Carson's finger might be slowing his passes a hair, but his passes to Floyd were right on, Floyd just had a bad day. Floyd isn't an open looks guy all the time, he is a big box out pass catcher, so when he is letting passes hit the ground, defender or no, it is a bad thing for the Cards.

So take all the emo bullshit out of the football talk. WHo cam to play, who had something to play for, did the game even matter. The offensive line for the Cards got physically whooped. David Johnson is a guy you can take out of a gameplan. Floyd and the other WRs could not shake Seattle defenders, and had some pretty good passes knocked out of their hands.
Peterson has a lot of trouble covering Lockett, Baldwin can get open almost at will vs that team, and if we face them again, they will have to deal with Lynch, most likely. In Glendale, where some of their WR speed is just a touch lesser.

As far as Arians trying to do some Monday Morning psychology for his birds, that is a crock of shit. He got pissed during the game at the poor execution, but with some time to think tried a different take. This game doesn't matter. I am willing to venture that it won't even a be a focus in viewing game film. If his real plan was to put his starters in harms way while talking big but actually planning a vanilla game just so he could what, get some film on the revamped Seattle offense vs his team, that is just plain stupid. If he actually was thinking that way, they would have run the ball a lot more, Carson would have played little if at all, to get some time for his finger and other injuries, and the white flag would have been so obvious all would know. We didn't know, becasue it didn't happen until halftime.

Truth is, Arians says a lot of stuff in public that is wind. But this message, while stupid to us, is his way of telling his team to forget about it. They have to. They have a really good team that features an offense not built around bludgeoning, but disecting, other teams. Bruce is trying to tell them I an't even mad, it happens, lets all move on. He is doing so by taking a lot of crap in his own face, so they don't have to. Everything the national media or Seattle media says won't penetrate the protective umbrella of the local AZ media, who will play the we were not trying mantra to death.

The alternative is worse. A home game where fickle AZ fans don't spend money for seats.

 

[Nothinbutm]

Now, that being said, your coach is an asshat. I have always respected the Cardinals. When Kurt Warner and the Fitz were tearing up defenses not too long ago, it was a helluva sight to see. Your defense back than with Adrian Wilson and Antrel Rolle wasn't a bad group at all either. It's definitely my opinion that Wisenhunt was the architect for the group that Arians is currently utilizing. The comments your current head coach makes are pretty petty at times and seems like the aftermath of a bully who just got bullied himself. He's a good coach, and I personally knew Carson Palmer's brother for a time since we both went to the same university. But holy hell, how can you defend the guy with any shade of genuine objectivity?

Whoa now - I listen to a lot of Seahawks opinions about Arians, but the above is out of touch with reality. Keim turned over the roster immediately with BA and everything changed...everything (3 of those players were not on Arians roster, btw). Coach Whis was definitely NOT the architect for Arians, that would be like me saying Pete Carroll led the Seahawks using a blueprint that were architected by Holmgren (ignoring Mora).

I definitely stand corrected. Doesn't change the fact that Arians is a butthole with vocal chords. :lol:

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Whoa now - I listen to a lot of Seahawks opinions about Arians, but the above is out of touch with reality. Keim turned over the roster immediately with BA and everything changed...everything (3 of those players were not on Arians roster, btw). Coach Whis was definitely NOT the architect for Arians, that would be like me saying Pete Carroll led the Seahawks using a blueprint that were architected by Holmgren (ignoring Mora).

I definitely stand corrected. Doesn't change the fact that Arians is a butthole with vocal chords. :lol:

Fair enough :th2thumbs: .

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

I know the Cards are mortal. No doubt about that. I never expect any game to be easy and I know we have weaknesses. I haven't seen Palmer throw one good pass in the last two weeks that wasnt overthrown that was deeper than 15 yards. I also think we have a QB with a finger issue and it shows in the film. The fact we rely so heavily on the blitz is and will continue to be a problem.

This thread has life when it should be dead because a Cards fan living in Seattle and all pissed off about it failed to show up.

But the above is what is missing from these threads.

I don't think Seattle is 30-6 better than the AZ starters. And in fact about 4 weeks back I tried to post with the other Cards fan who is here primarily to be a tribalistic troll that some of the difference we see in Glendale vs Seattle was that the speed advantage they have at WR is gone on that slower grass track.

Also, it is a huge difference when Earl is worried about Cary Williams, or not worried about Jeremy Lane.

But mostly, AZ's line did not come to play. Vheldeer got his ass handed to him. They looked bad and slow trying to open holes for the RB. (also, while David Johnson can be electric at RB from time to time,w hen the blocking is great, he doesn't create many of his own runs. Out of college, I loved him as a WR conversion, and I still think he could be a dominant WR in the NFL) AZ's line showed vulnerabilities in the first meeting, but so did our secondary.

Also, 10 passes defensed and what, 4 or 5 dropped? Carson's finger might be slowing his passes a hair, but his passes to Floyd were right on, Floyd just had a bad day. Floyd isn't an open looks guy all the time, he is a big box out pass catcher, so when he is letting passes hit the ground, defender or no, it is a bad thing for the Cards.

So take all the emo bullshit out of the football talk. WHo cam to play, who had something to play for, did the game even matter. The offensive line for the Cards got physically whooped. David Johnson is a guy you can take out of a gameplan. Floyd and the other WRs could not shake Seattle defenders, and had some pretty good passes knocked out of their hands.
Peterson has a lot of trouble covering Lockett, Baldwin can get open almost at will vs that team, and if we face them again, they will have to deal with Lynch, most likely. In Glendale, where some of their WR speed is just a touch lesser.

As far as Arians trying to do some Monday Morning psychology for his birds, that is a crock of shit. He got pissed during the game at the poor execution, but with some time to think tried a different take. This game doesn't matter. I am willing to venture that it won't even a be a focus in viewing game film. If his real plan was to put his starters in harms way while talking big but actually planning a vanilla game just so he could what, get some film on the revamped Seattle offense vs his team, that is just plain stupid. If he actually was thinking that way, they would have run the ball a lot more, Carson would have played little if at all, to get some time for his finger and other injuries, and the white flag would have been so obvious all would know. We didn't know, becasue it didn't happen until halftime.

Truth is, Arians says a lot of stuff in public that is wind. But this message, while stupid to us, is his way of telling his team to forget about it. They have to. They have a really good team that features an offense not built around bludgeoning, but disecting, other teams. Bruce is trying to tell them I an't even mad, it happens, lets all move on. He is doing so by taking a lot of crap in his own face, so they don't have to. Everything the national media or Seattle media says won't penetrate the protective umbrella of the local AZ media, who will play the we were not trying mantra to death.

The alternative is worse. A home game where fickle AZ fans don't spend money for seats.

Great post, Scottemojo.

Still, while all that may be true of Arians, his acting job for his team's sake still can't hide his emo. So, all that coming from the windbag makes him a blowhard in my book. I think that's a fitting term. Not meant to simply be an insult. I think it's true of Arians.

He might be a good football coach, but he's a blowhard. I prefer guys who can give credit where credit it due. Carroll has his critics, too. But, I think that's a strong leadership point. He is quick to speak of the positives of the other team, (ie: you often hear him say things like, "They did some really cool things.") Try getting that out of a guy like Arians.

The thread still had life for obvious reasons. A couple of teams with a lot on the line and some Arizona fans desperate for their team to deliver. I can understand that, but disappointed overall in how they've gone about it in this thread. Still, it's football and part of the fun is the back and forth. Great water-cooler sport. Have time inbetween games to discuss. This particular thread seems to be wrapping up. But, the conversation may continue in a few weeks. (I think it could be with Redskins fans, though.)