Amazing game by Russell Wilson today

[John63]

Hey Tical check 2017 against the Eagles on SNF. The 1st half especially. They came out with the quick game, and carved them up.

It's a coaching philosophy thing. Not a player deficiency thing.

Though, if you want to nitpick Wilson it is his biggest weakness. 6/10.

I dunno, we tried it for half of 15 and tried to replicate it in 16 and 17. Pete may not have been comfortable with it, but he didn't stop it from happening.

With how relatively ugly those seasons were, and how much Russ' efficiency dropped, It became pretty obvious that we really needed to lean on the running game again to get this thing going back in the right direction. We did that in 2018, achieved a success I don't think any of us imagined, and yet nobody here wants to give the credit for that success to the running game and Schottenheimer, despite all the evidence. So you tell me who is playing to their biases here?

Wilson's efficiency dropped because they were absolutely anemic (historically bad) running the ball. Opponents didn't have to load the box, and they could sit back in 2 high with 22 eyeballs on Wilson, rush 4, and still get immediate pressure.

And you're surprised Wilson's efficiency dropped? LOL



If what you think is true (can't read zone) Wilson wouldn't have experienced an efficiency drop, but instead a total collapse.

But Wilson is such a beast he masked their issues through those years, and damn near won an MVP in 2017.

An 18 point rating drop is pretty significant, no?

And in no world but your own did he almost win an MVP in his second worst season.

Yes it is but to say it is because he cant run a quick passing game is well wrong. You did not take into account no run game, or him playing injured. In your zeal to show he is not good you left out the FACTS that show your wrong.

 

[John63]

....and someone's opinion is tilted toward serious bias against Wilson. ukeface:

Nothing he says can he prove or provide any support for. Most would refer to this as pulling it out of your ass.

You’re welcome to join us. End this shit once and for all. I think everyone here has had enough of you flapping your gums while providing zero in the form of substance to any conversation on this board. Be better or go yell at people in YouTube comments.

LOL pot calling the kettle what a laugh thanks I needed that

 

[chris98251]

Another aspect is this years offense is using the middle of the field and crossing routes like we have never done before which allows the Offense to have more options rather then just sideline and flat comebacks and bubble screens.

 

[John63]

Another aspect is this years offense is using the middle of the field and crossing routes like we have never done before which allows the Offense to have more options rather then just sideline and flat comebacks and bubble screens.

Yes, PC has said, many times he does not like throwing to the middle of the file do to the added risk, but I am guessing he realized we have to use the whole field or the OC and Wilson talked him into it. We will see if it continues. I could easily see PC only allow it when we face a high octane offense.

 

[Scorpion05]

What kind of elementary nonsense am I reading here LOL.

How can a QB LEAD the league in touchdowns, throw for basically 4000, scramble for 586 yards and lead his team in rushing, behind one of the worst O-lines statistically in football, with one of the worst kickers in football, finish 9-7 with injuries all over the defense, and STILL be criticized about his efficiency that season??

Some things are just not worth arguing. Not all opinions have value

 

[John63]

What kind of elementary nonsense am I reading here LOL.

How can a QB LEAD the league in touchdowns, throw for basically 4000, scramble for 586 yards and lead his team in rushing, behind one of the worst O-lines statistically in football, with one of the worst kickers in football, finish 9-7 with injuries all over the defense, and STILL be criticized about his efficiency that season??

Some things are just not worth arguing. Not all opinions have value

Some need to find something to show Wilson is not good. that why.

 

[sutz]

Another aspect is this years offense is using the middle of the field and crossing routes like we have never done before which allows the Offense to have more options rather then just sideline and flat comebacks and bubble screens.

Yes, PC has said, many times he does not like throwing to the middle of the file do to the added risk, but I am guessing he realized we have to use the whole field or the OC and Wilson talked him into it. We will see if it continues. I could easily see PC only allow it when we face a high octane offense.

We also haven't consistently had TEs that can drag the seam routes and clear the traffic. Dissly has helped in more than just his impressive individual numbers. Vannett had a nice catch Sunday, too.

 

[camdawg]

I dunno, we tried it for half of 15 and tried to replicate it in 16 and 17. Pete may not have been comfortable with it, but he didn't stop it from happening.

With how relatively ugly those seasons were, and how much Russ' efficiency dropped, It became pretty obvious that we really needed to lean on the running game again to get this thing going back in the right direction. We did that in 2018, achieved a success I don't think any of us imagined, and yet nobody here wants to give the credit for that success to the running game and Schottenheimer, despite all the evidence. So you tell me who is playing to their biases here?

There's no question that we wouldn't have such a deadly deep passing game off play action, if we didn't have a strong running game to make play fakes meaningful.

Regarding needing to LEAN on the running game, though....maybe it was more a case of just needing the run game to be functional again? While Russ has been getting hammered this year, if we just had the same caliber of OL and running back play in 2017 that we've seen this year and last, don't you think Russ would've been way more efficient during that season?

 

[John63]

Another aspect is this years offense is using the middle of the field and crossing routes like we have never done before which allows the Offense to have more options rather then just sideline and flat comebacks and bubble screens.

Yes, PC has said, many times he does not like throwing to the middle of the file do to the added risk, but I am guessing he realized we have to use the whole field or the OC and Wilson talked him into it. We will see if it continues. I could easily see PC only allow it when we face a high octane offense.

We also haven't consistently had TEs that can drag the seam routes and clear the traffic. Dissly has helped in more than just his impressive individual numbers. Vannett had a nice catch Sunday, too.

Agreed, they have both helped alot.

 

[KiwiHawk]

Looking at :

[youtube]yIscwUI80hY[/youtube]

0:27 - Wilson's first sack. OL was blown up and Wilson had little time, but at this moment, he has the ability to throw the ball. The only thing available on the right side is a 2-yard dump-off. The other receiver is covered. Vannett is open in the middle, but it's at the 40 and we needed the 36 for the first down on 3rd down. Brown, on the left, appears to be open, and gets deep enough to challenge for the first, but Wilson's looking right, and the opportunity goes and the play results in a sack. Wilson did make a pump fake, so theoretically he had one chance to get the ball off. Make no mistake, the OL blew it, but in theory Wilson could have made the read to Brown on the left and possibly could have made a play. However, the backfield was emptied to the right side, so it's logical that's where an overload would be.

1:04 - Another sack. Again the line collapses and Wilson has stuff-all time to get rid of the ball. This time there's no time to throw as the pressure comes right up the middle, which takes away throwing lanes (not a short reference - ALL QBs use throwing lanes) and collapses the pocket. No read would have saved this one.

1:14 - Tuitt makes a good move at the line and penetrates on 3rd-and-forever, Wilson does a bit of a step to get away but can't get out of Tuitt's reach, and goes down. Prior to contact, Wilson had no outlet apart from Vannett as no one else was even looking back. Line failure again, not a Wilson fault. Down-and-distance contributed because for a first down we needed long routes, which is why 3rd-and-forever is a low-percentage conversion.

4:38 - After some nice work getting rid of the ball quickly resulting in a TD drive, we return to the sack action with Wilson in play-action on 2nd-and-10. Again the line blows it, and again the deeper routes take more time, but because the pressure is again up the middle, Wilson has no throwing lanes and by the time he looks up from the play action, all he can really do is prepare for the sack.

So of the sacks that happened against the Steelers in Game 2 of 2019 - just so you all are crystal clear of the set of plays I am looking at and don't introduce others to "prove me wrong", Wilson potentially blew one read, and the rest of the sacks were unavoidable by 75% of the QBs in the league, and of the remaining 25%, 20% throw the ball up for an easy pick, and 4% throw ducks that go incomplete, and 1% manage a reception out of pure blind luck.

 

[Fade]

Hey Tical, how can you show us he can't read zone live from a TV broadcast? You need all 22.

Wouldn't it be easier to post all-22 .gifs and breakdowns? Produce it yourself, or find someone who already has done the work. Shouldn't be hard to come up with if your claim is true.



His passer rating fell from 110 in 2015 to -> 97 in 2017. While leading the team in rushing, the league in TD passes, while accounting for 97% of the scoring, and 80%+ of yards (never done before). And setting an NFL record for 4th QTR TD passes.



https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/1/29/16945248/2017-seahawks-worst-rushing-modern-nfl-history


" There have been 1145 teams since 1978 to play 16 games.

2017 Seahawks rank in non-QB rush yards: 1137 of 1145"

— Sam HawkBadger (@hwkbgr) January 24, 2018


-Historically bad-


Mike Davis was the leading RB rusher on the team that year at 240 yards. :shock:

He was in the MVP convo behind Wentz & Brady, but then Blair Walsh cost them 3 wins, they didn't win enough games as a team, so no award for him.

2nd worst season? Not even close.

Arguable his best given the degree of difficulty, and the records he set. No O-Line, No Run game, Cabevell, go get 'em Russell.

 

[John63]

I dunno, we tried it for half of 15 and tried to replicate it in 16 and 17. Pete may not have been comfortable with it, but he didn't stop it from happening.

With how relatively ugly those seasons were, and how much Russ' efficiency dropped, It became pretty obvious that we really needed to lean on the running game again to get this thing going back in the right direction. We did that in 2018, achieved a success I don't think any of us imagined, and yet nobody here wants to give the credit for that success to the running game and Schottenheimer, despite all the evidence. So you tell me who is playing to their biases here?

There's no question that we wouldn't have such a deadly deep passing game off play action, if we didn't have a strong running game to make play fakes meaningful.

Regarding needing to LEAN on the running game, though....maybe it was more a case of just needing the run game to be functional again? While Russ has been getting hammered this year, if we just had the same caliber of OL and running back play in 2017 that we've seen this year and last, don't you think Russ would've been way more efficient during that season?

I agree with all you say the issue is, that some see what you said as an indictment of Wilson. Ie you saying play action would not work as well without a good run game. That is football 101 and would be true of any team with any QB. However, some will say that is a limitation on Wilson. The issue here is some forget it is not about leaning on the run game it is about what PC wants and the way we are built. We have seen time and time again the run game fail and yet Wilson carries us to victory and do so setting and breaking efficiency records. However, some look for any excuse they can to try to show Wilson as less then what he is.

 

[John63]

Hey Tical, how can you show us he can't read zone live from a TV broadcast? You need all 22.

Wouldn't it be easier to post all-22 .gifs and breakdowns? Produce it yourself, or find someone who already has done the work. Shouldn't be hard to come up with if your claim is true.



His passer rating fell from 110 in 2015 to -> 97 in 2017. While leading the team in rushing, the league in TD passes, while accounting for 97% of the scoring, and 80%+ of yards (never done before). And setting an NFL record for 4th QTR TD passes.



https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/1/29/16945248/2017-seahawks-worst-rushing-modern-nfl-history


" There have been 1145 teams since 1978 to play 16 games.

2017 Seahawks rank in non-QB rush yards: 1137 of 1145"

— Sam HawkBadger (@hwkbgr) January 24, 2018


-Historically bad-


Mike Davis was the leading RB rusher on the team that year at 240 yards. :shock:

He was in the MVP convo behind Wentz & Brady, but then Blair Walsh cost them 3 wins, they didn't win enough games as a team, so no award for him.

2nd worst season? Not even close.

Arguable his best given the degree of difficulty, and the records he set. No O-Line, No Run game, Cabevell, go get 'em Russell.

Dude you know he has no proof, he just figures if he keeps talking, someone will believe him, or we will get tired of responding and to him either one is a win.

 

[Tical21]

Fact. Holds the ball longer than anyone. Verifiable. Fact. Always near the top of the league in sacks. If you were to try to decipher if someone had trouble reading zone coverages, aren’t those EXACTLY what you would look at?

Where are these FACTS you keep bragging about providing?

 

[Tical21]

Hey Tical, how can you show us he can't read zone live from a TV broadcast? You need all 22.

Wouldn't it be easier to post all-22 .gifs and breakdowns? Produce it yourself, or find someone who already has done the work. Shouldn't be hard to come up with if your claim is true.



His passer rating fell from 110 in 2015 to -> 97 in 2017. While leading the team in rushing, the league in TD passes, while accounting for 97% of the scoring, and 80%+ of yards (never done before). And setting an NFL record for 4th QTR TD passes.



https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/1/29/16945248/2017-seahawks-worst-rushing-modern-nfl-history


" There have been 1145 teams since 1978 to play 16 games.

2017 Seahawks rank in non-QB rush yards: 1137 of 1145"

— Sam HawkBadger (@hwkbgr) January 24, 2018


-Historically bad-


Mike Davis was the leading RB rusher on the team that year at 240 yards. :shock:

He was in the MVP convo behind Wentz & Brady, but then Blair Walsh cost them 3 wins, they didn't win enough games as a team, so no award for him.

2nd worst season? Not even close.

Arguable his best given the degree of difficulty, and the records he set. No O-Line, No Run game, Cabevell, go get 'em Russell.

How quickly we forget about backwards passes, balls thrown up for grabs, 15 yard losses, etc. He wasn’t good in 16 and 17 by almost any metric you can think of. FACT.

I don’t need all-22 to see when Russ is having problems knowing what he’s seeing. You can see it right there pre-snap. Then watch what happens.

We have one more week of grace period. If we feature the pass again this week, two weeks from now the team will play will be prepared for it, and it will be a 16-17 shitshow. And I’ll take any wager anyone here has the balls to offer.

 

[Tical21]

Hey Tical, how can you show us he can't read zone live from a TV broadcast? You need all 22.

Wouldn't it be easier to post all-22 .gifs and breakdowns? Produce it yourself, or find someone who already has done the work. Shouldn't be hard to come up with if your claim is true.



His passer rating fell from 110 in 2015 to -> 97 in 2017. While leading the team in rushing, the league in TD passes, while accounting for 97% of the scoring, and 80%+ of yards (never done before). And setting an NFL record for 4th QTR TD passes.



https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/1/29/16945248/2017-seahawks-worst-rushing-modern-nfl-history


" There have been 1145 teams since 1978 to play 16 games.

2017 Seahawks rank in non-QB rush yards: 1137 of 1145"

— Sam HawkBadger (@hwkbgr) January 24, 2018


-Historically bad-


Mike Davis was the leading RB rusher on the team that year at 240 yards. :shock:

He was in the MVP convo behind Wentz & Brady, but then Blair Walsh cost them 3 wins, they didn't win enough games as a team, so no award for him.

2nd worst season? Not even close.

Arguable his best given the degree of difficulty, and the records he set. No O-Line, No Run game, Cabevell, go get 'em Russell.

Dude you know he has no proof, he just figures if he keeps talking, someone will believe him, or we will get tired of responding and to him either one is a win.

Yeah haha thats what I figure. Go regurgitate what you heard on the Steve Raible show.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

How quickly we forget about backwards passes, balls thrown up for grabs, 15 yard losses, etc. He wasn’t good in 16 and 17 by almost any metric you can think of. FACT.

You pick his two worst seasons out of eight to define him? Moreso, 2016 when he was injured and 2017 when he had only half of a team around him?

 

[Tical21]

How quickly we forget about backwards passes, balls thrown up for grabs, 15 yard losses, etc. He wasn’t good in 16 and 17 by almost any metric you can think of. FACT.

You pick his two worst seasons out of eight to define him? Moreso, 2016 when he was injured and 2017 when he had only half of a team around him?

? Those are the only two seasons we were pass-first. What other year would you have chosen?

 

[John63]

How quickly we forget about backwards passes, balls thrown up for grabs, 15 yard losses, etc. He wasn’t good in 16 and 17 by almost any metric you can think of. FACT.

You pick his two worst seasons out of eight to define him? Moreso, 2016 when he was injured and 2017 when he had only half of a team around him?

He knows what he is doing he is doing the only thing he can do, since he cant admit he is wrong. Finding those few things he can gripe about while leaving our all the mitigating FACTS that show his attempts to ne what they are, a pathetic attempt to discredit and reduce an Elite QB.

 

[John63]

Fact. Holds the ball longer than anyone. Verifiable. Fact. Always near the top of the league in sacks. If you were to try to decipher if someone had trouble reading zone coverages, aren’t those EXACTLY what you would look at?

Where are these FACTS you keep bragging about providing?

Prove he is holding it to long? Find PC saying he always holds the ball to long, not sometimes, not on occasion because all QBs do that. But always till then you have nothing at all, but your hate.