#3 RW PECTORAL injury

RCATES

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theENGLISHseahawk":366ic86i said:
RCATES":366ic86i said:
Our coaching staff's arrogance has virtually costed this team multiple championships. Our O-line is the laughing stock of the NFL. RW will never be the player he once was because of this. It's really alarming just how little revenue and effort this FO has put into protecting our franchise QB. Our offense has become non existent. No running game. No passing game. QB getting blown up. I will always be grateful for what PC has brought to this city and our fans. Its time to accept their failure's along with their success.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Talk about a 'sky is falling' mentality.

Again, Cleveland are on their 5th QB this season. Four injured already. Joe Thomas is their LT.

Great LT's don't magically stop QB's getting hurt.


I guess I could be like you and ignore whats happening right in front of your face each and every week. Take your Homer glasses off and take a look at the major drop off this offense has had this year. Having success in the NFL starts and ends up front. Our O-line is garbage. Our starters wouldn't even be 3rd stringers on other teams. We're in trouble offensively as is the health and future longevity of RW.

For four years Russell Wilson's indestructibility masked issues with Seahawks' offensive line. The mask is off now

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nf ... 33207.html
 

theENGLISHseahawk

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RCATES":2cshcfbl said:
theENGLISHseahawk":2cshcfbl said:
RCATES":2cshcfbl said:
Our coaching staff's arrogance has virtually costed this team multiple championships. Our O-line is the laughing stock of the NFL. RW will never be the player he once was because of this. It's really alarming just how little revenue and effort this FO has put into protecting our franchise QB. Our offense has become non existent. No running game. No passing game. QB getting blown up. I will always be grateful for what PC has brought to this city and our fans. Its time to accept their failure's along with their success.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Talk about a 'sky is falling' mentality.

Again, Cleveland are on their 5th QB this season. Four injured already. Joe Thomas is their LT.

Great LT's don't magically stop QB's getting hurt.


I guess I could be like you and ignore whats happening right in front of your face each and every week. Take your Homer glasses off and take a look at the major drop off this offense has had this year. Having success in the NFL starts and ends up front. Our O-line is garbage. Our starters wouldn't even be 3rd stringers on other teams. We're in trouble offensively as is the health and future longevity of RW.

For four years Russell Wilson's indestructibility masked issues with Seahawks' offensive line. The mask is off now

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nf ... 33207.html


When the Seahawks get back to the Super Bowl this year, the largest slice of crow will be saved just for you. With a glass of cold Sancerre.
 

mrt144

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If the Seahawks dont make the SB will you at least listen to other people's opinions without dismissing them out of hand?
 

theENGLISHseahawk

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mrt144":1pb1t80y said:
If the Seahawks dont make the SB will you at least listen to other people's opinions without dismissing them out of hand?


Not if they're just a collection of 'woe is me' overreactions.
 

massari

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hawker84":1op7u3m7 said:
Ya because Okung would have been much better at Left Tackle for the 6 games he'd be in there. Then who'd we be stuck with? Sowell or who ever while Okung sits on the bench eating cap space.

Eating cap space like Webb? Okung's played in all 7 games so far. But assuming he plays 12 games (his career average), I'm sure Wilson would rather have that than Sowell all season. Okung and his 12 games @ 5.2M >> Webb @ 2.4M.
 

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RCATES":30sohlsl said:
I guess I could be like you and ignore whats happening right in front of your face each and every week. Take your Homer glasses off and take a look at the major drop off this offense has had this year. Having success in the NFL starts and ends up front. Our O-line is garbage. Our starters wouldn't even be 3rd stringers on other teams. We're in trouble offensively as is the health and future longevity of RW.

For four years Russell Wilson's indestructibility masked issues with Seahawks' offensive line. The mask is off now

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nf ... 33207.html

You're not stating anything most people don't already know, including the entire Hawk organization.

But this has ALWAYS been the trade off, and frankly Pete and John's plan from the very beginning. Build an insanely good, ALL TIME good defense that destroys teams...........and trust Russell to run around and make plays behind a deficient line and WR corp by pounding the rock.

Problem hasn't just been the line and Russell's injury. Right up there is not having a successful replacement for Marshawn. Not having Rawls healthy and producing has hurt us every bit as Russell's injury and O-line issues.
 

bandiger

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Sgt. Largent":1n5kkf15 said:
RCATES":1n5kkf15 said:
I guess I could be like you and ignore whats happening right in front of your face each and every week. Take your Homer glasses off and take a look at the major drop off this offense has had this year. Having success in the NFL starts and ends up front. Our O-line is garbage. Our starters wouldn't even be 3rd stringers on other teams. We're in trouble offensively as is the health and future longevity of RW.

For four years Russell Wilson's indestructibility masked issues with Seahawks' offensive line. The mask is off now

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nf ... 33207.html

You're not stating anything most people don't already know, including the entire Hawk organization.

But this has ALWAYS been the trade off, and frankly Pete and John's plan from the very beginning. Build an insanely good, ALL TIME good defense that destroys teams...........and trust Russell to run around and make plays behind a deficient line and WR corp by pounding the rock.

Problem hasn't just been the line and Russell's injury. Right up there is not having a successful replacement for Marshawn. Not having Rawls healthy and producing has hurt us every bit as Russell's injury and O-line issues.

Well there is one spot you never go cheap on that is LT, simple as that. I go by the Parcell philosophy, the LT is not an interchangeable part. Say what ever else you want but getting rid of Okung is one of the biggest mistakes made in awhile. Protect the QBs blindside man.
 

RichNhansom

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Trading away our future for the possibilty of improved play at LT is a big risk.

Right now Wilson is hobbled and our running game is poor. Giving away valuable draft picks may help a little but it's not going to be the difference in winning a super bowl or not and the next draft is supposedly strong at areas we are aging at.

If you want to dustain success you have to not mortgage the future.
 

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I keep hearing folks toss the line out there, that the 2016 Seattle Seahawks offense is the absolutely the worst ever in franchise history. I don't want to seem as though I am not being respectful of your perception on things, but I am curious if you have stats to support that accusation, or is your opinion purely subjective?

I asked that firstly because I completely disagree with that assessment, in part based purely on my subjective analysis of what I've witnessed in watching play against other teams this year, their current divisional and overall standings in the NFl currently. I also have a problem with "the worst Oline ever in franchise history" based on having watched this team play for 40 years as of this year, and I would argue that most of us that have sat thru season after season of what were truly some of the worst Olines, not only in franchise history, but in the history of the NFL in general and now argue that what we have now is fantastic in comparison.

What Pete has put together in Seattle since taking over management of the Seahawks, in my opinion, and based bothg upon statistics and personal observations, as well, have been the greatest Oline and Dline collectives in franchise history. At present we lead the NFC West, and while our oline is still evolving this season, they certainly don't appear to be the worst online ever, as some would suggest, if fact, short of feeling Lynch's absence the past few seasons, and the loss of Rawls, I would argue at very least we are looking better than we have since 2014.

I'm fully prepared to hear folks disagree with my assessment of things, and trust me when I say that I will always respect your opinions and the fact that we won't always see things the same. 40 seasons of Seahawk football, I'm grateful as hell for Russell Wilson and the Seahawk online as it is today.

I'm still drinking from the koolaid pitcher, where by seasons end we will all be together on our offense and defense performances. The sky is not falling and don't write off Boykin if it comes down to it, I think he is capable of making believers out of a lot if folks should he get an opportunity to play.

I wouldn't look to see Russell set it on the bench anytime to soon. I haven't lost sight of what a fighter he is, and what he's made of. Some real metal there still I think.
 

DavidSeven

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I agree with what a poster said earlier: besides Russell, Sherman and Earl, I'm not sure there's a single player on this roster I wouldn't give up for a legitimate Left Tackle. It's that important. We've suffered in both the run and pass game without one.

I don't care what anyone thinks of Okung's injury history. I will take him for 10-14 games over some combination of scrubs for a full 16, which is what we're facing now.
 

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nash72":31wsqsg3 said:
McGruff":31wsqsg3 said:
nash72":31wsqsg3 said:
So what your trying to say throughout that post is you dont feel Wilson would have sustained these injuries a couple years ago? Its football, injuries happen. Also, this is the worst Oline he has ever played behind, so there is that.
Last year's line was far worse.

Not even close. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Through 6 games last year, Russell Wilson was on a record pace for QB hits and sacks, and we weren't running the ball very well either. It was atrocious.

People in general are really overreacting to this last game.
 

massari

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theENGLISHseahawk":1czs5e5g said:
But you're assuming Wilson won't get injured with someone like Joe Staley, aged 32, working his LT.

Against Miami he got injured scrambling to his right side where the pressure came. It was a freak accident that Suh stook on his foot. Against San Fran he scrambled to the same side (right) and got hurt trying to stiff arm a D-liner instead of throwing away.

How does Staley prevent either of these situations?

Obviously a good LT wouldn't prevent that, but he'd likely prevent less contact to Wilson's beat up body and give him more time, especially with his mobility limited. Yeah, their age and contracts are concerning though. So Graham over Thomas/Staley?

Hmm, maybe they have enough cap room to add Thomas/Staley without giving an important piece away.
 

Lords of Scythia

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RCATES":35wqcsej said:
Our coaching staff's arrogance has virtually costed this team multiple championships. Our O-line is the laughing stock of the NFL. RW will never be the player he once was because of this. It's really alarming just how little revenue and effort this FO has put into protecting our franchise QB. Our offense has become non existent. No running game. No passing game. QB getting blown up. I will always be grateful for what PC has brought to this city and our fans. Its time to accept their failure's along with their success.
Going cheap on the oline was not by decision, it's just how it played out when all the contracts came due on defense and with Wilson. They would've invested in offensive line if they could have.
 

RCATES

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bandiger":35sbxzdy said:
Sgt. Largent":35sbxzdy said:
RCATES":35sbxzdy said:
I guess I could be like you and ignore whats happening right in front of your face each and every week. Take your Homer glasses off and take a look at the major drop off this offense has had this year. Having success in the NFL starts and ends up front. Our O-line is garbage. Our starters wouldn't even be 3rd stringers on other teams. We're in trouble offensively as is the health and future longevity of RW.

For four years Russell Wilson's indestructibility masked issues with Seahawks' offensive line. The mask is off now

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nf ... 33207.html

You're not stating anything most people don't already know, including the entire Hawk organization.

But this has ALWAYS been the trade off, and frankly Pete and John's plan from the very beginning. Build an insanely good, ALL TIME good defense that destroys teams...........and trust Russell to run around and make plays behind a deficient line and WR corp by pounding the rock.

Problem hasn't just been the line and Russell's injury. Right up there is not having a successful replacement for Marshawn. Not having Rawls healthy and producing has hurt us every bit as Russell's injury and O-line issues.

Well there is one spot you never go cheap on that is LT, simple as that. I go by the Parcell philosophy, the LT is not an interchangeable part. Say what ever else you want but getting rid of Okung is one of the biggest mistakes made in awhile. Protect the QBs blindside man.

Exactly what in the hell is PC and JS thinking. They decide to move Britt to Center since they have given zero to that position after trading away Unger. They draft Glowinski and throw him in at Guard. They draft Ifedi who was a Tackle in College and throw him in at guard. Just lol at our left and right tackles. Arguably the most important positions on the O-Line. Wake up people.
 

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McGruff":db9po9ge said:
nash72":db9po9ge said:
McGruff":db9po9ge said:
nash72":db9po9ge said:
So what your trying to say throughout that post is you dont feel Wilson would have sustained these injuries a couple years ago? Its football, injuries happen. Also, this is the worst Oline he has ever played behind, so there is that.
Last year's line was far worse.

Not even close. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Through 6 games last year, Russell Wilson was on a record pace for QB hits and sacks, and we weren't running the ball very well either. It was atrocious.

People in general are really overreacting to this last game.

Just for comparison, through 7 games last year, Wilson was sacked 31 times. Over the course of the season, that is a 70 sack season.

Through 6 games this year, Wilson has been sacked 11 times. That's 29 over the course of the season, or LESS than Wilson has ever been sacked in any season in his career.
 

mrt144

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RichNhansom":1xsdw3ro said:
Trading away our future for the possibilty of improved play at LT is a big risk.

Right now Wilson is hobbled and our running game is poor. Giving away valuable draft picks may help a little but it's not going to be the difference in winning a super bowl or not and the next draft is supposedly strong at areas we are aging at.

If you want to dustain success you have to not mortgage the future.

The future is this

No O lineman signed to a second contract if they're at all desired by another team in the league
Continual churn at OL as pick after pick doesn't produce starter caliber talent on a rookie salary scale
Continual churn at RB as way to maybe get out from under the duress of a bad O line with a baller at RB

There's nothing exhibited over the last 5 years that suggest they'll suddenly start finding talent at OL in the draft and their stinginess in FA acquisitions basically makes that an nonviable path since the inefficiency of the OL market will make even below average OL out of the Hawks price range.

And while we can bandy about how much draft capital they've spent, Okung is the lone obvious bright spot in the history of the PCJS OL drafts and even he was debased as a talented OL. Carp? Nobody liked him until he moved to a team that did things differently. Britt? 3rd year with 2 substandard years at other positions on O line. Will he get a 2nd contract? Probably not unless his reputation is so tarnished that nobody else offers him above league min. Glow? First year starting and not much to write home about.

Sweezy? Like a worse version of Carp or Breno
Moffit? Poole? Scott? Bowie?

Gilliam? Myriad more players I haven't mentioned?

Ifedi might be the only other day 1 starter who has the chops that Okung did.

Breno was a FA and the lone bright spot in that regard and he plays alongside Carp and they TCB in the run game just fine.

I know that OL is one of the most scarce positions in the league hence the market inefficiencies but they absolutely haven't hit on talent at OL in any comparable way to the rest of the team and it's showing so hard right now.
 

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pacific101":1s2ziq3s said:
Its NFL football folks, you play, you get banged up. One observation I made early on this year was the fact that Russell wasn't taking any more abuse out there this season than he had in the past, in fact less because our Online was and continues to improve in their efforts to protect him.

A lot of folks are immediately assuming that Russell's increased vulnerability to injury, is the blame of the Oline, instead of what my suspicions have been all along, and what I still suspect might be the real culprit. No not Darell
Bevell's play calling, lol, that is where everyone who doesn't blame the Oline goes next, when I believe the blame falls squarely on Russell's shoulders.

You can BS yourself, and try to shift blame and accountability elsewhere, but at the end of the day the truth is the truth, and until you own that and do what you have to, to fix it, your just going to keep getting more of the same.

I know I can be a wordy SOG (son of a gun), so I'll try and simple this down so I make my point and minimize boring you to death in the process. I've mentioned in a few of my post that I spent a good many years of my life coaching boxers, and with some good success, also having boxed some myself over the years. One thing that a boxer or a boxing coach will tell you separates boxing from most other physically demanding sports, is that at the end of the day, when you win you get all the credit, when you loose you do too.

Over the years of training fighters I had kids, who had no more skill or even toughness than any other kid in the gym. The ones who excelled, were the ones who pushed themselves to physical extremes that the others would not. I would see a lot of fighters do just enough to convince the coaches and themse!lives that they were in good enough shape to fight and win.

The ones who started out with this mentality would generally win their first few bouts, but then as they started getting matched tougher, they would start getting injured and beat. The ones who pushed themselves and who allowed their coaches to push them to greater extremes, were the ones who went on to win the local, state, regional, and national competitions.

The ones that always frustrated me as a coach, were the ones who had made the sacrifices and pushed themselves to these extremes to achieve greatness, and then, start listening to others around them, convince them that there were softer and easier ways to get to and remain at that level, which was simply not true. If they drank that koolaid and followed along down that path, it was not to long before it started to evidence itself out.

One of my first clues was when a fighter, who previously had demonstrated this type of work ethic, and had achieved that level of physical and mental toughness that had allowed them to compete at high levels of competition without injury, or at very least no injury, that they did not recover from quickly, start getting injured, hopefully in the gym before it found its way into actual bouts, where an injury can lead to even greater vulnerabilities and more serious injury.

Now long story as short as I can make it. I am a huge Russell Wilson fan, and a major reasoning behind my admiration for him, is my belief that he was one of these types of "fighters" I just described, who pushed himself to physical and mental extremes to get to where he is today. I think somewhere along the line over the past year or so, some of those who have been involved in his sports medicine or coaching has convinced him of a softer and easier way to aquire that same level of physical and mental toughness that got him where he was, and in drinking that flavor of koolaid, he has made himself, once again, near mediocre and increasingly vulnerable to injury.

I fear that if Russell doesn't wake up and smell the coffee, quit kidding himself, go back and start doing those things that got him where he is and kept him there up and until this past year, that we are only going to see more of the same with him, eventually sustaining an injury that removes him from the field of play and finding himself being replaced with a young gun who hasn't lost sight of what got them there, and haven't been induced in to drinking the softer easier way brand of koolaid.

We have all heard him in press conferences this year talking about how he has implicit faith in his rehab handlers, who are doing a great job of patching up all of his injuries, but not really addressing the real problem which is why he is now suddenly vulnerable to all the I juries he historically been able to avoid.

I'm not saying he should ignore the sports medicine people helping him recover from his injuries. What I am suggesting, Russell, is that you quit BS'ing yourself, make the decision to go back and start making those same sacrifices you made all the years prior to getting here, and get yourself back on your game. Otherwise I suspect that in the not to distant future your going to be reading articles about yourself where the are referring to you as a one time bright falling star. I truly hope not, for your sake and the sake of the Seattle Seahawks.

No time for editing this morning, hopefully spellcheck covered most of my errors, and you were able to make sense of what I'm trying to relay here. Sorry about being so wordy, its just who I am, never been able to keep it short and sweet on paper.

There's one aspect of your Boxing to Football analogy that doesn't correlate..... as a fighter in the ring, you yourself are responsible for keeping your guard up and not doing so means that you are going to sustain a LOT of unnecessary punishment, whereas, being a Quarterback, your Offensive Line IS your "Guard Up", in fact, they are designated as...Right Guard, and Left Guard.
It would be like tying your non-punching hand behind your back, and no amount of conditioning will get your body to withstand an non-defensed beating.
 

theENGLISHseahawk

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DavidSeven":27fhifwl said:
I agree with what a poster said earlier: besides Russell, Sherman and Earl, I'm not sure there's a single player on this roster I wouldn't give up for a legitimate Left Tackle. It's that important. We've suffered in both the run and pass game without one.

I don't care what anyone thinks of Okung's injury history. I will take him for 10-14 games over some combination of scrubs for a full 16, which is what we're facing now.

They got the #1 seed in 2013 with Paul McQuistan playing eight games at LT.

The four offensive tackles in the Super Bowl last season were Mike Remmers, Michael Oher, Ryan Harris and Michael Schofield.
 

Sgt. Largent

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bandiger":28qot108 said:
Well there is one spot you never go cheap on that is LT, simple as that. I go by the Parcell philosophy, the LT is not an interchangeable part. Say what ever else you want but getting rid of Okung is one of the biggest mistakes made in awhile. Protect the QBs blindside man.

Not resigning Okung was a gamble..........and a gamble that didn't pay off.

He was often injured and Pete and John felt he didn't warrant another 3-4 years at 10M a year. Just like they decided with Unger. If you're gonna play O-line for us, and make a ton of money, you gotta show up every week.........and these two didn't.

Not saying that was the right decision, just giving insight into what I think the decision process was with Okung.
 
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