Backwards pass 2 point conversion

[Jac]

His body language expressed that he picked it up because it was there. Nothing more than that. If he had known it was a live ball, or even potentially a live ball, he would have made a display of it if for no other reason than to bring it to the attention of the refs on the field. As it was, it was the ref in the league office who brought it to the attention of the refs on the field that it was in fact a live ball.

He jogged 5-6 yards in the direction of the football staring at it the whole time.

 

[Bobblehead]

Still, he had to have had some deep-down training to always pick up the ball, whether out of courtesy or it maybe being live. My instinct wouldn't have been to pick up the ball after a failed play.

C'mon, if your at a ball park for some reason and there's a ball at your feet,or at a basketball court, or tennis court, you just pickup the ball.. probably done it since you were a wee kid, if nothing else, just to see who it might belong to. In Charbs case, he probably picked it up for the ref.. courtesy. For what ever reason though, I'm very glad he did.

 

[NoGain]

He jogged 5-6 yards in the direction of the football staring at it the whole time.

I still do not believe he knew it was a live ball. Almost everyone watching the game, the players on the field, and the media people in attendance or watching the game didn't know it was a live ball either.

 

[DTiempo81]

I still do not believe he knew it was a live ball. Almost everyone watching the game, the players on the field, and the media people watching the game didn't know it was a live ball either.

That's not the point though. MM has said multiple times in the last day that they are coached to jump on EVERY loose ball, live or not.

 

[Jac]

I still do not believe he knew it was a live ball. Almost everyone watching the game, the players on the field, and the media people in attendance or watching the game didn't know it was a live ball either.

I'm not saying he knew it was a live ball. He obviously didn't act like it was a live ball. But he looked programmed to pick up a loose ball on the field given he purposely jogged over to it to pick it up.

 

[NoGain]

That's not the point though. MM has said multiple times in the last day that they are coached to jump on EVERY loose ball, live or not.

That was my point. That he didn't know it was a live ball. And to use your own words "jump on every loose ball" was certainly not done.

 

[DTiempo81]

That was my point. That he didn't know it was a live ball. And to use your own words "jump on every loose ball" was certainly not done.

We can argue the level of activity he had getting the ball, sure. But relative to everyone else who was moving AWAY from the ball, he didn't need to dive on it. He picked it up as he has been coached, it wasn't being nice to hand it to the ref as many many people have assumed here. Again just listen to the post game interviews instead of making assumptions, you can hear exactly what Charbs and the coaches approach was to the pickup.

 

[glenwo2]

I am one of those who believe Charbs had no idea at all if that was a live ball. If he had known, he would have dived on it in the endzone, instead of nonchalantly reaching down and picking it up as if it was dead ball after a play. That's exactly what his body language said to me.

And I guarantee that if he dived on it, he would've garnered attention from other players who will then try to dive on it, and the ball will squirt free and end up out of bounds.

So thankfully he didn't know.

 

[glenwo2]

It's been what they have been coached since pop warner. Multiple players and coaches have verified that is standard protocol for a loose ball, and they coach it week in and week out.

Play until the final whistle or something like that.

 

[NoGain]

I'm not saying he knew it was a live ball. He obviously didn't act like it was a live ball. But he looked programmed to pick up a loose ball on the field given he purposely jogged over to it to pick it up.

Well that's the question. Did he just get lucky? Was he picking the ball up just to hand it to the refs? Did it even cross his mind that it *might* be a live ball? My thinking is that if he was "programmed" to go after balls of this kind he would have dashed to the ball and recovered it in the endzone.

 

[warden]

Many idiots in internet land that lack football IQ are say the refs got this wrong because the blew the whistle

The only way to have blown this call is blow the play dead with a live ball on the field

Yet no ref claimed to have done so in the ref huddle with calling about the play

 

[DTiempo81]

Well that's the question. Did he just get lucky? Was he picking the ball up just to hand it to the refs? Did it even cross his mind that it *might* be a live ball? My thinking is that if he was "programmed" to go after balls of this kind he would have dashed to the ball and recovered it in the endzone.

My god man, how can you be having such a hard time with this concept? None of that matters in the slightest. He picked up the ball AS COACHED because there is always a small chance that the refs made he call wrong, and it benefits you to do so. Case in freaking point, this play here!

 

[NoGain]

My god man, how can you be having such a hard time with this concept? None of that matters in the slightest. He picked up the ball AS COACHED because there is always a small chance that the refs made he call wrong, and it benefits you to do so. Case in freaking point, this play here!

Hey, we have a slightly different take on it. That's all. Big deal.

 

[Jac]

My god man, how can you be having such a hard time with this concept? None of that matters in the slightest. He picked up the ball AS COACHED because there is always a small chance that the refs made he call wrong, and it benefits you to do so. Case in freaking point, this play here!

The more I watch it, the more clear it is that he was coached to do it. He jogged in the direction of it and gave the double knee bend to go down for it. It clearly wasn't a "courtesy for the refs" grab.

 

[DTiempo81]

Hey, we have a slightly different take on it. That's all. Big deal.

Definitely not a big deal. It is just a little maddening when it has been explained to you multiple times, and you've been told that the coaches and players themselves are explicit in their explanation as well, and then you are like...."well what about this complete non-factor of an observation?"

I get it, you look at it one way, but you are demonstrably incorrect.

 

[Jegpeg]

Watching the reply there does sound like a short whistle after the ball hit the ground.
As per rule this is irrelevent, if the whistle was not from a ref obviously it is mute and if it was from a ref, in error, it is still a conversion as Charbs clearly took possession when the ball should have been live.

The high profile of this does make me wonder if this will change things. Are players going to scramble to pick up every incomplete pass just in case the ball ball is still live or ignore a whistle when an official thinks forward play has been stopped? That will raise safety concerns and probably a rule change.

 

[NoGain]

Definitely not a big deal. It is just a little maddening when it has been explained to you multiple times, and you've been told that the coaches and players themselves are explicit in their explanation as well, and then you are like...."well what about this complete non-factor of an observation?"

I get it, you look at it one way, but you are demonstrably incorrect.

Whatever. I just take issue with the fact that our players were so well coached in this way that instead of racing to the ball and diving on it in the endzone one player just casually jogs over to the ball and somewhat nonchalantly picks it up while making no display of it to the refs on the field or in the league office that it might have been a live ball.

 

[DTiempo81]

Watching the reply there does sound like a short whistle after the ball hit the ground.
As per rule this is irrelevent, if the whistle was not from a ref obviously it is mute and if it was from a ref, in error, it is still a conversion as Charbs clearly took possession when the ball should have been live.

Yep.

The high profile of this does make me wonder if this will change things. Are players going to scramble to pick up every incomplete pass just in case the ball ball is still live or ignore a whistle when an official thinks forward play has been stopped? That will raise safety concerns and probably a rule change.

This already happens on most plays like this. Think about all the plays where a QBs arm is hit during his throwing motion, everyone is jumping on the ball regardless of whether or not the whistle is blown. Hell, some defenders run the ball all the way to the end zone. This play with Charb is a testament to Charb playing all the way through, and an indictment on the Rams players being lazy.

 

[DTiempo81]

Whatever. I just take issue with the fact that our players were so well coached in this way that instead of racing to the ball and diving on it in the endzone one player just casually jogs over to the ball and somewhat nonchalantly picks it up while making no display of it to the refs on the field or in the league office that it might have been a live ball.

He didn't know it was a live ball, that's besides the point though. No one else was even going towards the ball, he didn't need to sprint and pick it up. As for non-challantly jogging, he got the ball while it was still moving in less than 2 seconds, which is why the play counted because it was still in the "immediate action" of the play. Everything else is moot, and you taking issue with it doesn't change the intention or the outcome.

 

[Jac]

He didn't know it was a live ball, that's besides the point though. No one else was even going towards the ball, he didn't need to sprint and pick it up. As for non-challantly jogging, he got the ball while it was still moving in less than 2 seconds, which is why the play counted because it was still in the "immediate action" of the play. Everything else is moot, and you taking issue with it doesn't change the intention or the outcome.

I hadn't considered that. If he hadn't of been so intentional about going to pick it up, the play likely would have been ruled dead.