Extend Geno? Soon?

[SoulfishHawk]

Not if they are basically playing .500 ball.

 

[sutz]

Do you think we can easily find another early-RW3 in the third round again?

The problem is that the way they over value QBs in the draft, all of those guys go in the firs round.

 

[projectorfreak]

Geno is good enough to run an offense and js hasn't given him much help plus he's in a new system and it's a college OC .
I'm pretty sure if you stuck him behind a good oline he would do really well.
Russ didn't win the owl for is , kam n the lob and a butt load of hawks fans in metlife helped a lot
I believe in geno but am also very aware of his faults , lots of other teams would be a hell of a lot better , I just don't know who would replace him and not sure if howell is good or not but once the line is fixed ( which I actually think they will get done ) we will have all the evidence we need to make a decision but atm I don't see a choice.
Kinda hoping we can clinch the division week 16 and put howell in for a half at least cuz if he don't know the offense by now , that would be a little concerning

 

[toffee]

The Giants just released Jones, sign him, and allow healthy competition between Jones and Howell?

 

[Chukarhawk]

The Giants just released Jones, sign him, and allow healthy competition between Jones and Howell?

 

[Rat]

If we decide to try to find our QOTF in the draft, I really hope we don't do the whole "target guys in the mid to late rounds" thing. The hit rate is so unbelievably terrible to the point of it being reckless to look for anything more than backups in that range. People want to point to Russ, but he's actually a great example of how bad the odds are. He was selected 12 years ago, and he's STILL the last franchise QB drafted in the third round. In the past 20 years, only two teams found their franchise QB in the fourth round (Dak Prescott in 2016, Kirk Cousins in 2012). Hell, between Sonny Jurgenson in 1957 and Kirk Cousins in 2012, the biggest contribution a fourth-round QB gave their drafting team is probably David Garrard for the Jaguars in 2002. A fifth rounder hasn't hit for the team that drafted him since the Rams took Bob Waterfield in 1944. If we're not going to address it early, we might as well just go with Howell.

I'm happy with Schneider as the GM, but he's drafted just two QBs in 15 years, and one of those was a 7th rounder who never made an NFL roster. Hitting on a rare third rounder is impressive, but Russ was a unique situation and like half the league was seemingly trying to steal him in that range. At the very least, the Eagles, Redskins, and Jets all came out after that draft and said they were set to take him with their next pick. That's not enough for me to just assume Schneider is some kind of savant at identifying young QB talent.

 

[jeremiah]

He’s 34, has never won a playoff game, and is going to be too expensive for a bridge quarterback (which is what he is). Take that money and put it in Oline.

And no, Olu playing decent in one game and Lucas being back isn’t considered fixing the Oline.

11 TD's ........ 11 Ints. He is a total mess.

 

[Vesuve]

I do think its funny that some people who kill Howell fail to realize Geno was bad before given a shot too and was bad for a decade.

Howell has at least flashed some special traits and did some cool things last year in Washington. His turnovers were way too high but they put him as a rookie into a terrible situation throwing so much. Brock had a scout on here a couple of months ago and said Howell would be his #1 QB in this past draft if he stayed another year so he has talent for sure.

Yeah, Howell was on a awful offense.

We don't fully know what potential he has and we'll only know when he's given a chance to get snaps.

 

[Sonichound16]

I do think its funny that some people who kill Howell fail to realize Geno was bad before given a shot too and was bad for a decade.

Howell has at least flashed some special traits and did some cool things last year in Washington. His turnovers were way too high but they put him as a rookie into a terrible situation throwing so much. Brock had a scout on here a couple of months ago and said Howell would be his #1 QB in this past draft if he stayed another year so he has talent for sure.

and didn't his own coach admit that they would just chuck it down the field on 3rd and long and if it got picked it would basically be just like a punt? I would be curious to see how he would do with our weapons.

 

[Sperrydogg]

geno may be a flat footed long eared interception throwing varmint but that doesn’t mean we should see Yosemite Sam anytime soon….

 

[Sperrydogg]

If we decide to try to find our QOTF in the draft, I really hope we don't do the whole "target guys in the mid to late rounds" thing. The hit rate is so unbelievably terrible to the point of it being reckless to look for anything more than backups in that range. People want to point to Russ, but he's actually a great example of how bad the odds are. He was selected 12 years ago, and he's STILL the last franchise QB drafted in the third round. In the past 20 years, only two teams found their franchise QB in the fourth round (Dak Prescott in 2016, Kirk Cousins in 2012). Hell, between Sonny Jurgenson in 1957 and Kirk Cousins in 2012, the biggest contribution a fourth-round QB gave their drafting team is probably David Garrard for the Jaguars in 2002. A fifth rounder hasn't hit for the team that drafted him since the Rams took Bob Waterfield in 1944. If we're not going to address it early, we might as well just go with Howell.

I'm happy with Schneider as the GM, but he's drafted just two QBs in 15 years, and one of those was a 7th rounder who never made an NFL roster. Hitting on a rare third rounder is impressive, but Russ was a unique situation and like half the league was seemingly trying to steal him in that range. At the very least, the Eagles, Redskins, and Jets all came out after that draft and said they were set to take him with their next pick. That's not enough for me to just assume Schneider is some kind of savant at identifying young QB talent.

He only lasted that long cause he was short

 

[WmHBonney]

Daniel Jones? Really?
I live in NY state. EVERY Giants fan I know is celebrating right now. And their new starting QB is Tommy Devito. That should tell you something.

 

[toffee]

Daniel Jones? Really?
I live in NY state. EVERY Giants fan I know is celebrating right now. And their new starting QB is Tommy Devito. That should tell you something.

Maybe giants will use a '25 second rounder to trade for Geno?

 

[jammerhawk]

I believe Geno is auditioning still for this coaching staff. The decision to re-up him will be deferred until the end of the year so the staff can make an informed decision. A tell will be if the team busts out of a possible playoff slot and Howell is given a nod for any plausible reason I’d suspect Geno will not be re-signed.

I rather suspect this (renew or not) has been thought about a great deal by the FO along with many other cap considerations. Geno is a good to average QB with an accurate arm and occasional elite tendencies who is inclined to whig out at times and make bad decisions. The team could do worse or a whole lot better and grabbed Howell for a good reason.

To me it’s early still in this decision making process but a direction appears already planned. Geno will need to demonstrate he’s absolutely worth keeping and may just be but he still needs to show he’s not just a transition player.

 

[Chukarhawk]

the crazy thing is Geno is on the same Sam Howell trajectory. Howell had 21 TD's and 21 picks and threw for 4000 yards. IF things keep going the way they are now those will be Geno's stats.

 

[NoGain]

If we decide to try to find our QOTF in the draft, I really hope we don't do the whole "target guys in the mid to late rounds" thing. The hit rate is so unbelievably terrible to the point of it being reckless to look for anything more than backups in that range. People want to point to Russ, but he's actually a great example of how bad the odds are. He was selected 12 years ago, and he's STILL the last franchise QB drafted in the third round. In the past 20 years, only two teams found their franchise QB in the fourth round (Dak Prescott in 2016, Kirk Cousins in 2012). Hell, between Sonny Jurgenson in 1957 and Kirk Cousins in 2012, the biggest contribution a fourth-round QB gave their drafting team is probably David Garrard for the Jaguars in 2002. A fifth rounder hasn't hit for the team that drafted him since the Rams took Bob Waterfield in 1944. If we're not going to address it early, we might as well just go with Howell.

I'm happy with Schneider as the GM, but he's drafted just two QBs in 15 years, and one of those was a 7th rounder who never made an NFL roster. Hitting on a rare third rounder is impressive, but Russ was a unique situation and like half the league was seemingly trying to steal him in that range. At the very least, the Eagles, Redskins, and Jets all came out after that draft and said they were set to take him with their next pick. That's not enough for me to just assume Schneider is some kind of savant at identifying young QB talent.

You're right, it's slim pickings past the 2nd round for starting NFL QB's. You made me think about it for awhile. The only others I could come up with off the top of my head were Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, Bart Starr, Kenny Anderson, Brock Purdy, Warren Moon....there might be a couple more. The odds are certainly against it.

 

[Rat]

You're right, it's slim pickings past the 2nd round for starting NFL QB's. You made me think about it for awhile. The only others I could come up with off the top of my head were Tom Brady, Kurt Warner, Bart Starr, Kenny Anderson, Brock Purdy, Warren Moon....there might be a couple more. The odds are certainly against it.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic. I think you might be. I applaud it if you do, because I believe the best sarcasm is when you can't really be sure.

There are certainly examples of late-round guys hitting, but after the second round, you're looking at well less than a 5% of finding a franchise QB, and it drops with each round. Even guys like Tom Brady and Brock Purdy, the Patriots already had an established starter and the Niners used three first round picks to trade up to #3 and take a QB in that same draft. Neither of those guys were drafted with the thought "this is going to be THE guy for us". Their teams thought they had some potential worthy of a late-round pick, were probably hopeful they were getting a solid backup, and got insanely lucky. If Schneider sees a late-round guy he likes, I'm not suggesting he pass him up, I just think it would be very unwise, if not straight reckless, to make that THE plan for something as important as a long-term starting QB.

Kurt Warner was undrafted. So were Dave Krieg, Tony Romo, Jeff Garcia, and Jake Delhomme. In the 45 years since Krieg was a rousing undrafted success story for the Seahawks, how many undrafted QBs have been signed and went on to do anything, let alone become franchise starters? Or more accurately, how many THOUSANDS have been signed?

Warren Moon is irrelevant to this discussion. He wasn't exactly some diamond in the rough. Sadly, we all know why he wasn't drafted.

 

[NoGain]

No, it might have come off that way, but I was agreeing. It's slim pickings to find a true starting QB not drafted in the first couple of rounds.

 

[keasley45]

I think everyone is vastly overestimating how much this team needs to be good, but that's me.

As for the question, I'm still undecided on this one. I think more of this season needs to play out and with the unexpected change at Center, the cleaning house mid-season at LB, and the return of Lucas means I honestly don't know what this team is or where this team really stands.

The NFC West is--outside of the Cards (who we still get to play twice)--all within 1 game of .500. To me, coming out of this bye, we're near clean slate level. So, I just don't see the purpose of deciding what to do with Geno (or anyone) right now.

So, to me, this is a 'Wait and See' decision.

I think everyone is vastly overestimating how much this team needs to be good, but that's me.

As for the question, I'm still undecided on this one. I think more of this season needs to play out and with the unexpected change at Center, the cleaning house mid-season at LB, and the return of Lucas means I honestly don't know what this team is or where this team really stands.

The NFC West is--outside of the Cards (who we still get to play twice)--all within 1 game of .500. To me, coming out of this bye, we're near clean slate level. So, I just don't see the purpose of deciding what to do with Geno (or anyone) right now.

So, to me, this is a 'Wait and See' decision.

Agree 100%. Its not as if we just started the rebuild. Its started 2 years ago. We are 3 years in.

Does Mike need 'certain pieces'to do what he wants on defense? Sure. But thats primarily at ILB, and by all accounts, we may have addressed that issue on the fly already.

In terms of the D line, we are set. Dont see how tripling down on a NT or DT is the game changer for us.

The O line, i get. But again, we have been in this unfortunate spot where Lucas has been out for an extended period and unfortunately the moves we made with Olu and Bradford and Haynes have yet to pan out... key word there being 'yet'. But if you listen to coaches, those guys seem to be getting better and Olu made a huge step last week. If the line continues to play better and buys Geno time and Walker space for the rest of the season and they carry that momentum into next, do we REALLY want to create a void at a posotion (qb) that we KNOW can perfrom at a high level, especially when afforded time to throw?

So nah. I dont see the wisdom in letting Geno walk (assuming he does what i think he will and stats suggest - play better if he isnt under constant assault ) just so we can divert resources to what? A top 2 guard? Bradford is developing. Olu is developing and we have cornerstones on the outside already.

There are money moves we can make in FA with upcoming contracts to free up space on offense and we have depth in the secondary on D, so that should provide us the ability to fortify a spot on the line if need be. But again - 3 of the 5 spots on the o line are likely set moving forward (assuming Olu sticks).

If i were the front office, id be watching these next few games where hopefully we show more stability on the O line, to see just how high Geno's ceiling can be. If the arrow looks like its pointing up a good bit, I'd buy low and sign him up to the most team freindly deal possible.

He's turning 35, not 45. Brady went to 6 SBs after age 34. Rich Gannon was 37. Brad Johnson was 35. Stafford was 34. P Manning was 39.

And without getting into a debate about Geno, vs HOF QBs (because there are quite a few greats who put up career numbers past 35) there are plenty of examples of guys like Vinny Testaverde and Eli Manning who put up 'good enough' numbers to NOT be the reason their team's didnt succeed.

And to put his physical football age into perspective, Geno has around 2750 pass attempts in his career. Thats about 2000 less than Jared Goff - around 5 seasons worth fewer. And only 500 more than Joe Burrow. On the flip - M Stafford has 8000! Sure, age catches up with everyone, but with age, arm strength is less important than smarts. And Geno despite his chronolgical stamp, is still a baby in terms of wear and tear on his arm... or his legs for that matter.

Back to the 'over the hill' successful qb point -the thing most all of them have in common is that they were all accurate, all pocket passers, and all great at processing xs and os. Geno does that.

And i am in no way comparing Geno to any HOF Qb. I am saying that Eli Manning was NEVER a world beater. Nor was Rich Gannon. But their respective experience, knowledge and vet smarts gave their teams the best shot to win it all when the rest of the team was solid enough to contend. It didnt matter that they didnt have their 25yo QBOTF under center and ready to go because that dude (if they'd had him in the wings) woukdnt have been capable of extracting the best from the team.

If we let Geno go, it would be a massive gamble to MAYBE make a guard spot better at the expense of subing in a rookie qb who unless you hit big on a CJ Stroud type, isnt going to be able to do what a guy who knows the system like Geno can. We have a window opening and putting that window at risk of a roll of the dice in drafting a QBOTF or to let an unproven backup guve it a go, just to not pay Geno to be the 10th or so best qb in the league if he plays that way, is in my opion, fool hardy.

But then again, ones' take on the topic depends on whether you see the talent of this team and the play of the QB as being a strength or a liability.

Could Howell step in? Sure. But can he operate the system the way Geno can? Can he consistently make the throws Geno does? There is no evidence of it. And in the absence of it, i wouldnt give up the bird in hand for the one in the bush. If Geno ends up costing us more, it will be because his performance warrants it. Keep Howell around for when / if Geno slows down in the next 2-3 years. Its not like he has a ton of mileage on his arm, and his gane IQ is still on the upswing.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

He already is on a multiyear contract