Geno looked crazy good tonight

[Maelstrom787]

Probably a comparable record with Grubb. It was always Pete Carroll’s offense no matter the OC. The Seahawks had several OCs in the PC era and the basic system was always consistent.

This is just... not correct. In several different ways.

 

[keasley45]

yeah it was historic, you mean like when Cousins got his team to win 13 games with even worst defense in 22. Vikings were ranked 30th in defense and Cousins got them to the playoffs too. Goff that same year got a terrible Lions defense to 9-8, same record as Geno. Goff actually improve last season, unlike Geno. Geno got only 20tds, the least amount td by a starting qb other than rookie Brice Young & Ridder. Minshew & Fields too but miss games.

Did they have the worst defense, and simultaneously one of the worst rushing attacks?...

And one of the worst offensive lines?

At the same time?

 

[keasley45]

If so then you have no clue the amount of control Pete had over the offense, all you need to look at is when Wilson went out and Geno came in and you seen Waldrons offense, we were all giddy at how it looked, then the next week it went back to the old, you would never know that it was a different look.

Pete was accused of mandating run run pass punt.

That was false. We have been pass heavy for years now.

Pete was accused of disallowing throws over the middle. That was also proven false as field utilization changed a good bit when Geno came on.

Pete's flaw was giving coordinators too much latitude to F up, and heist his job for not mandating accountability and making sure things were going as they should.

He trusted the wrong coordinators and oaid the price. He did not hold their hands or handcuff them into predetermined schemes. He gave them rope and they hung themselves and hamusyrung the team. THAT was his flaw.

Saying 'we need to be .ore balanced'is t medaling. Its basic football philosophy. Its not a stategy. Its a goal.

 

[keasley45]

This is just... not correct. In several different ways.

Its ok. Geno is gonna shit em all up and then the critics will act like no one saw it coming, or that it took Grubb to get things to click for him acter 12 years.

Geno has been clicking. The supporting cast has been the problem. And im not talking about the wr corp. Or the rbs. But neither group can do much if they arent schemed in effectively or dont get the ball because the qb doesnt have time to make even quick reads and passes.

 

[Maelstrom787]

yeah it was historic, you mean like when Cousins got his team to win 13 games with even worst defense in 22. Vikings were ranked 30th in defense and Cousins got them to the playoffs too. Goff that same year got a terrible Lions defense to 9-8, same record as Geno. Goff actually improve last season, unlike Geno. Geno got only 20tds, the least amount td by a starting qb other than rookie Brice Young & Ridder. Minshew & Fields too but miss games.

Ah, a quick cherry-pick after 15 pages of far, far better analysis. Refreshing.

Geno missed games as well.

His TD % was 4.0%. League average was 4.1% in 2023. It wasn't good, but it wasn't egregious.

 

[chris98251]

Pete was accused of mandating run run pass punt.

That was false. We have been pass heavy for years now.

Pete was accused of disallowing throws over the middle. That was also proven false as field utilization changed a good bit when Geno came on.

Pete's flaw was giving coordinators too much latitude to F up, and heist his job for not mandating accountability and making sure things were going as they should.

He trusted the wrong coordinators and oaid the price. He did not hold their hands or handcuff them into predetermined schemes. He gave them rope and they hung themselves and hamusyrung the team. THAT was his flaw.

Saying 'we need to be .ore balanced'is t medaling. Its basic football philosophy. Its not a stategy. Its a goal.

Disagree heavily, time and time again we heard we will see much of the same with a few twists, from one coordinator to another, we usually seen twists in pre season, but rarely in games.

 

[Maelstrom787]

If so then you have no clue the amount of control Pete had over the offense, all you need to look at is when Wilson went out and Geno came in and you seen Waldrons offense, we were all giddy at how it looked, then the next week it went back to the old, you would never know that it was a different look.

That's just not how it works. Anywhere. There's no team in the league that has 2 installed offenses that the coaches fight an organizational battle royale over weekly to see who gets to run what.

Geno had a few very nice series in the Rams game. It wasn't because he was randomly running a fundamentally different offense that was entirely scrapped for the next game for no reason.

It isn't just nonsensical; it's simply not feasible. It is not a realistic viewpoint to have.

 

[rcaido]

Ah, a quick cherry-pick after 15 pages of far, far better analysis. Refreshing.

Geno missed games as well.

His TD % was 4.0%. League average was 4.1% in 2023. It wasn't good, but it wasn't egregious.

Yeah Geno missed 2 games.

Fields & Minshew only started 13 games big difference.

So Geno only beat out 2 QBs that play the same amount of games as him in TDs. What an amazing year. Below average TD% too, thanks for the added stats.

 

[Torc]

Man, I can't wait for the season to start and we can begin arguing about whether Geno's great success this year is due to his talent or Grubb's system.

 

[CallMeADawg]

If so then you have no clue the amount of control Pete had over the offense, all you need to look at is when Wilson went out and Geno came in and you seen Waldrons offense, we were all giddy at how it looked, then the next week it went back to the old, you would never know that it was a different look.

This is just a conspiracy theory. The fact that people in here believe this like it's gospel is frighteningly bad.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Yeah Geno missed 2 games.

Fields & Minshew only started 13 games big difference.

So Geno only beat out 2 QBs that play the same amount of games as him in TDs. What an amazing year. Below average TD% too, thanks for the added stats.

Yeesh. I don't even know how to respond to this. After 15 pages of discussion, you come in and start prodding a single volume statistic (and not even doing so especially accurately).

You then use said rudimentary analysis to attack a strawman argument lol, but I guess that makes sense given the profile pic.

 

[DarkVictory23]

yeah it was historic, you mean like when Cousins got his team to win 13 games with even worst defense in 22. Vikings were ranked 30th in defense and Cousins got them to the playoffs too. Goff that same year got a terrible Lions defense to 9-8, same record as Geno. Goff actually improve last season, unlike Geno. Geno got only 20tds, the least amount td by a starting qb other than rookie Brice Young & Ridder. Minshew & Fields too but miss games.

My man, first of all: No, the '22 Vikings defense wasn't even worse than the '23 Seahawks defense. They were not in the bottom 4 in points given up per drive (the metric I've been using consistently from the get go here, so you just picking a completely different one randomly doesn't mean you've undercut a single point I've made).

I assume you are using total yards given up (even though they were 31st there, not 30th... but they were ranked in the 20's in just about everything else) but I don't use that metric because it's too related to the quality of the offense.

A bottom 4 team in points given up per drive will have, on average... an average offense. (Literally an average ranking of approximately 16.5 in recent history.)

A team with a bottom 4 Total Yards Against usually has a poor offense, too. (20th-21st on average).

This makes sense, obviously: a bad offense can't stay on the field and gives the other team lots more chances to score points and rack up yards.

There are outliers here: A team with a bad passing defense but decent rushing defense and good passing offense, can skew the numbers a little--they give up so many yards quickly on offense, but because getting beat through the air takes less time off the clock than getting gashed on the ground, your offense has a chance to shoot it out.

This is another reason why our 2023 defense was worse than the Vikings in '22: Seahawks gave up the most amount of time per drive, but '22 Vikes were average. So, our defense gave up even more points but ALSO gave our offense less time to get back into the game.


That's why the '23 Seahawks had the 4th least offense drives in the league and the '22 Vikings got the 3rd most. (Also, and this is just a thought... do you think getting 10 less offensive drives than an average team might have had the chance to bring Geno's number of TDs down? Maybe...? Nah...)

 

[chris98251]

This is just a conspiracy theory. The fact that people in here believe this like it's gospel is frighteningly bad.

So no matter who was the OC and the offense looked the same it was a figment of our imagination, even when we were winning it looked the same.

 

[rcaido]

My man, first of all: No, the '22 Vikings defense wasn't even worse than the '23 Seahawks defense. They were not in the bottom 4 in points given up per drive (the metric I've been using consistently from the get go here, so you just picking a completely different one randomly doesn't mean you've undercut a single point I've made).

I assume you are using total yards given up (even though they were 31st there, not 30th... but they were ranked in the 20's in just about everything else) but I don't use that metric because it's too related to the quality of the offense.

A bottom 4 team in points given up per drive will have, on average... an average offense. (Literally an average ranking of approximately 16.5 in recent history.)

A team with a bottom 4 Total Yards Against usually has a poor offense, too. (20th-21st on average).

This makes sense, obviously: a bad offense can't stay on the field and gives the other team lots more chances to score points and rack up yards.

There are outliers here: A team with a bad passing defense but decent rushing defense and good passing offense, can skew the numbers a little--they give up so many yards quickly on offense, but because getting beat through the air takes less time off the clock than getting gashed on the ground, your offense has a chance to shoot it out.

This is another reason why our 2023 defense was worse than the Vikings in '22: Seahawks gave up the most amount of time per drive, but '22 Vikes were average. So, our defense gave up even more points but ALSO gave our offense less time to get back into the game.


That's why the '23 Seahawks had the 4th least offense drives in the league and the '22 Vikings got the 3rd most. (Also, and this is just a thought... do you think getting 10 less offensive drives than an average team might have had the chance to bring Geno's number of TDs down? Maybe...? Nah...)

No the Vikings gave up 25.4points a game, like i said rank 30th. Further proof, you can have a bad defense and still produce offensively like the Vikings and win. You can give Geno a pass for having a bad defense, not getting enough time of possession but maybe if he wasn't so bad in 3rd downs, he would have gotten more possessions. He was also terrible in the redzone. How many excuses will you give for him? I mean backup Drew Lock did ok, when he came in for Geno. We all know he isn't really a starting QB. It wasn't a big dropped off. We even got a must win against the Eagles.

 

[keasley45]

So no matter who was the OC and the offense looked the same it was a figment of our imagination, even when we were winning it looked the same.

What team have you been watching? The offense was drastically different from Bev to Schotty and then different again from Schotty to Shane.

We went from a 51 - 49 either way run pass to 60 - 40 with Shane. We went from rather simple route concepts and RPO with Bev and frustrating, often ineffective trickery, to a competently schemed, layered passing attack with Schotty that still leveraged the run well (although Russ toeard the end shunned it).

When Shane got here, the offense went oass happy, first with Russ and then with Geno, entirely unbalance AND ENTIRELY CONTRARY TO WHAT PETE WANTED. And he expressed his frustration with it.

Why was he frustrated if it was 'his offense'. The battle for what 'was best' for the team was waged out in the open between Russ and Pete, when Russ had Shane OBVIOUSLY doing his bidding.

This O hasnt followed Pete's fingerprint since Bev's first few years.

 

[Lagartixa]

Yeesh. I don't even know how to respond to this. After 15 pages of discussion, you come in and start prodding a single volume statistic (and not even doing so especially accurately).

You then use said rudimentary analysis to attack a strawman argument lol, but I guess that makes sense given the profile pic.

Not just the profile pic. The handle goes with it perfectly. In Portuguese, "R caído" means "fallen R." Couldn't be more appropriate.

 

[pittpnthrs]

What do you think our record would have been with Ryan Grubb instead of Waldron last year?

That is likely to have more of an impact that changing the QB from Geno to someone a little better would.

Grubb would have been coaching under Pete last year. I see little difference there.

 

[CallMeADawg]

So no matter who was the OC and the offense looked the same it was a figment of our imagination, even when we were winning it looked the same.

It wasn't the same though. Waldron's offense and Bevell's offense for example looked nothing at all alike. People here just love the conspiracy theory crap about Pete.

He flat out said that was wrong and the proof is there if you bother to look at reality instead of playing along with the fiction.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Grubb would have been coaching under Pete last year. I see little difference there.

Says one of the conspiracy theorists that plagues this site.

 

[pittpnthrs]

This is just a conspiracy theory. The fact that people in here believe this like it's gospel is frighteningly bad.

Why so? We wintnessed it for years. Waldron is a great example. First game against the Colts the offense was using misdirection and a lot of movement and it was a thing of beauty. The very next week, it was gone forever. I highly doubt Waldron was the one to reel that in. Offense went back to a ball control/big play scheme once again. Not sure how people refuse to see the obvious.