Interesting stats for fans down on Geno and/or Russ

[Ozzy]

The 5-8 range puts him too near elite territory and I don't think there's enough evidence to support that. I tend to think the evidence shows he's somewhere near the 10-12 range which would put him solidly above average and below elite.

Oh I agree I just think some on here view him that high. I have him lower than you do but I don’t think your view is unreasonable by any means. I think he’s 17th-sh or so.

 

[McGruff]

?

He probably meant first year as a starter for the Seahawks

 

[Maelstrom787]

Goff > Geno

I said what I said

Goff's pretty good. Numbers make it hard to objectively argue Geno to be better, but I do think he gives Goff a run for his money if he was operating behind that wall of an OL they have.

 

[knownone]

Yes, he was a backup because he is a mediocre football player and that was why he sat behind less mediocre QBS.

So don't blame Geno for never winning in the playoff because he sucked so much he was never a starter to get his team to the playoffs and win a game when he got there?

Two names don't disprove the rule but just show there are very few exceptions to it and Geno couldn't hold either of their jockstraps

Geno sat behind three potential HoF QBs for the bulk of those years. And, when given the opportunity, he went to back-to-back pro bowls. He is quite clearly one of the exceptions. You are just a hater.

 

[pittpnthrs]

I'm not saying GS is elite but he is above average and good enough to take this team to the playoffs and even win a game or two.

He very well may be, but until he proves it, i'm just calling it as I see it.

 

[pittpnthrs]

It's always interesting to see criticisms of Geno because they rarely match his numbers. For example, he grades in a similar territory as Josh Allen for explosive plays with a high-risk style (which is a fair criticism). Yet, some people think he's a game manager who can't function outside the system, despite Geno, Waldron, and Pete saying he needed to play more within the system. Similarly, he's in the top five in 4th quarter comebacks over the past two seasons, winning those games in 25% of his starts. Then they point to his inability to handle pressure yet conveniently ignore that he's one of the best QBs under pressure in the league. He's just under pressure at a significantly higher rate than average.

Here's the thing. Seattle had a bottom-25 defense and offensive line the past two seasons and still was a viable wildcard team. So how do those of you who think Geno's ceiling is the WC round square that circle?

This is exactly what i'm talking about. Those numbers and stats are great, but what do they equate to? .500 football. People always resort to the numbers, but never want to talk about how he reverts back into the usual Geno Smith during stretches of the season.

He has two years to prove something. Anything. There are some that thinks he can and some of us that don't. We'll see what happens. I'm in the camp where I believe it's a waste of time and a QBotF should already be in place at this point, but here we are.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Geno may naturally suck in the red zone. But anyone watching us running four vertical routes out of the back of the endzone consistently the last three years and thinking the problem is Geno isn’t watching.

Right. Having an opinion that he isn't clutch means I'm not watching. Thanks for the info.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Goff's pretty good. Numbers make it hard to objectively argue Geno to be better, but I do think he gives Goff a run for his money if he was operating behind that wall of an OL they have.

Fair enough. Agree to disagree, and that's fine. I need to see the clutch side of Geno. Still kind of waiting for it. Just MY opinion on the guy.
Stats don't win games. He hasn't even won a playoff game yet. And even the biggest Geno fans can't honesty deny how lucky he got on dropped picks last year. Several times, right to a guy who has feet for hands.

Oh well, he's the best choice THIS season, and hopefully we get Geno of 2 year ago. He was def. above average.

 

[pittpnthrs]

You mean like Dan Marino?

3 of the last 10 QB's to make the SB weren't elite:
Brock Purdy, not elite.
Jimmy Garoppolo, not elite.
Jared Goff, not elite.

Marino won 8 post season games, had a Super Bowl appearance, and is in the HOF. Are you seriously using him as an example? He definitely made his teams better than what they were.

How many Super Bowl wins did those 3 QB's collect? Do you think it might have been due to their talent level?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Damn. Geno and Marino in the same conversation. Now I truly have heard it all. Marino is one of the best QB's in the history of the game. Come on man.
And if it wasn't for pathetic coaching, Goff would have been playing in his SECOND Super Bowl. He's absolutely better than Geno. I'd much rather have Goff than Geno.

 

[pittpnthrs]

You keep bringing up Mahomes, but is anybody comparing Geno Smith to Mahomes?

Proper comparison would be guys like Goff and Stafford.

Also, the one time Mahomes had to face pressure like Geno, Brady and Co. blew them out.

Mahomes is as close to God as a quarterback has ever been, and even *he* couldn't bring it home under that level of siege.

The one time? Lol. Good lord. 4 Super Bowl appearances in 5 years with 3 wins and your concentrating on one time and comparing that to a situation Geno has been in?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Well, Goff and Stafford are both better and more clutch than Geno. It's not much to ask of your QB for him to be more clutch. But that just makes someone a "hater"

Well, some of us expect a lot from the QB. Oh the horror.

 

[pittpnthrs]

So how many games SHOULD we have won last year if Geno was the player you think he should be?

How many should we have won in 2022?

Name the one qb that overcame bottom 5 rushing attack, o line, and defense?

Waiting.

Even in the last 20 years? 30?

And it will be a long wait. You are acting as if the facts above aren't typical factors that result in the complete failure of a team, missing playoffs, losing record, etc.

Are they not?

Name one Qb.

As to Geno's 3rd down performance, i already posted a link that stated pretty clearly that he actually performs very well on actual passing downs - 3rd and between 7 and 10. He's one of the best in the league. So how do you explain that?

One of the most accurate.

Led the league in completion percentage.

Set multiple franchise records in his first year.

Led the league in completions of expectation. Ie - he's extremely accurate.

Quick trigger.

Has been shiwn that he actually makes the line and offense look BETTER than it is by virtue of his accuracy , decisiveness and quick trigger.

And none of that is to say hes 'elite' or God's gift to the position. But he sure ad hell isn't the average, 'can't win a playoff game' , can't this, can't that guy some make him out to be.

It's absurd.

He's literally THE reason we won as many games as we did last year and the year before, and yet, somehow, with little support in critical areas, he should have been able to do more.

Again, how many games SHOULD we have won?

It was .500 football. Honestly that isnt very impressive. Realisticly 9-8 shouldn't even be sniffing the post season. but it was a season in which the Cardinals stunk and the Rams were rebuilding somewhat and the NFC as a whole was pretty dismal.

As for the 9-8 records the past two seasons, half the QB's in the league could have done that with the weapons Seattle has.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

They were an average team with an average QB. 9-8 sounds about right where they should have been. Now, if the defense wasn't so brutal, they very likely would have made the playoffs.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Geno sat behind three potential HoF QBs for the bulk of those years. And, when given the opportunity, he went to back-to-back pro bowls. He is quite clearly one of the exceptions. You are just a hater.

Ah the pro bowls. I've been waiting for this one. How many QB's were injured or dropped out before Geno was selected last season? Here's something to think about,,,,Baker Mayfield went to the pro bowl last season. The pro bowl is a joke.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

3 or 4 guys drop out...........But....but....he's a Pro Bowl QB!!!

2 seasons ago, absolutely a pro bowl level QB. Last year? Um.......no.

Some of us believe in the QB, some of us don't. It IS ok to have either opinion. It's the QB, most scrutinized position in sports. If he plays like he did in 2022, this team is making the playoffs, imo.

 

[themunn]

Russ never dealt with a simultaneously awful defense and rushing attack, except for in 2017.

How many games did Russ win in 2017?

Yep. 9.

Good quarterbacks elevate their teams, and neither of Seattle's 2022 or 2023 teams should've hit to .500. Guys like Matthew Stafford and Drew Brees regularly went .500-ish when given a bad supporting cast. They're good quarterbacks.

In 2017 we still had the 11th and 13th ranked defense by yards and points, and 10th in takeaways. Those figures are 30th, 25th and 11th for last year.

Our rushing attack on the other hand was absolutely decimated that year and the stats really don't show how bad it was.

What I will say is that Geno appeared to be a different beast last year when Lucas was healthy (and Cross too in some respects), so it will make a huge difference this year if he is able to be ready for the beginning of season (and stay healthy!)

 

[themunn]

By your post, it's a wonder Smith ever sat the bench in his entire career. "Now we have a guy who can actually run an offense at a high level"? Need I remind you that he was a backup to Wilson. There's a good reason for that. He's also horrid in the red zone.

He was a backup for Eli Manning, Philip Rivers and Russell Wilson - 3 guys who are 2nd, 3rd and 6th on the all-time consecutive starts list at QB and all 3 who are likely going to be in the conversation for HoF. Sure he lost his job to Ryan Fitzpatrick when his jaw was broken - and subsequently tore his ACL in his first game when given the opportunity to win the job back, but that's the only aberration in his career. If Rich Gannon can go from backing up guys like Mark Rypien, Steve Bono and Elvis Grbac to become a regular starter in his 12th year as a pro and subsequently win a superbowl and MVP more than 10 years, why can't Geno go from backing up 3 HoFers to do the same?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He needs to actually win a playoff game first.

 

[Ozzy]

Geno's struggles in the red zone were his fault. We were near bottom of the league two straight years and he was the QB. We didn't run a high percentage of 4 verts in the red zone either. I think he gets a little too risk averse in the red zone and it hurt his production. It's understandable as a turnover in that area is magnified but multiple plays he had guys open and either didn't pull the trigger or didn't process it. He needs to be better in the red zone and maybe Grubb fixes that.

We also need to run the ball better, block better and some more imagination in the play calling is needed as well. So it's not all Geno's fault but he, like everyone else, deserves a slice of it for sure. New year though so lets see what happens.

Goff is better than Geno objectively to me. I'm hoping Grubb can have a massive impact on Geno though and he can get to Goff levels. If he does Seattle is going to be just fine.