Seahawks Impressions from a forum newbie

[EasyEd48]

Hey All,

Second post. In my first I assume people understood that I have been watching NFL football since 1968 or 9. So hopefully I am not totally ignorant but I'm sure some here will let me know if I am .

My Seahawks impressions...

Defense - really good and going to get better with experience. Not legion of boom yet as I think the D - line could really use a real first class defensive tackle. LW will do for now.

Offense - muddled an confused. I don't think they know what they are doing. I think PC (head coach) and the OC want to be the pocket passing power run team (like USC of old). I think this is PC's core identity but I don't think the seahawks have the O-line talent and sheer muscle to play that kind of football. They do muddle through time to time though but won't in the gauntlet of games coming up (niners cowboys eagles). The sad thing to me anyway is that I think the hawks do unquestionably have the talent to run what I believe to be the best (an my favorite) offensive scheme in likely the history of NFL football - the bill Walsh style west coast offense. The short pass sets up the run an the occasional deep ball. Look at the success by the niners packers under Arron R some others too and perhaps especially today the Chiefs.

Will the coaching staff of the Seahawks ever "get it"? Or at least mix elements of it in.

I will be curious to see if anyone here agrees or at least explains why I am wrong.

TIA for any replies...

-Ed-

 

[keasley45]

Hey All,

Second post. In my first I assume people understood that I have been watching NFL football since 1968 or 9. So hopefully I am not totally ignorant but I'm sure some here will let me know if I am .

My Seahawks impressions...

Defense - really good and going to get better with experience. Not legion of boom yet as I think the D - line could really use a real first class defensive tackle. LW will do for now.

Offense - muddled an confused. I don't think they know what they are doing. I think PC (head coach) and the OC want to be the pocket passing power run team (like USC of old). I think this is PC's core identity but I don't think the seahawks have the O-line talent and sheer muscle to play that kind of football. They do muddle through time to time though but won't in the gauntlet of games coming up (niners cowboys eagles). The sad thing to me anyway is that I think the hawks do unquestionably have the talent to run what I believe to be the best (an my favorite) offensive scheme in likely the history of NFL football - the bill Walsh style west coast offense. The short pass sets up the run an the occasional deep ball. Look at the success by the niners packers under Arron R some others too and perhaps especially today the Chiefs.

Will the coaching staff of the Seahawks ever "get it"? Or at least mix elements of it in.

I will be curious to see if anyone here agrees or at least explains why I am wrong.

TIA for any replies...

-Ed-

I think the heavy skew to the pass is Waldron. Over the last 3 games we are passing 67% of the time. Thats unheard of for a PC offense.

In 2019, arguably Russ's best overall season, we passed at 56%. Even in 2020, when Russ was on his MVP hunt, we still finished the season at 59%. Schotty had a great formula going, but one that Russ didn't care for. I wish Brian were still here because if he was, I think we'd be head and shoulders above where we are now on offense.

We are out of whack and the biggest problem I see is Shane forcing a passing game that still has fairly standard PA at its core, but no running game to threaten defenses. That, and a RB leading the charge who is best suited to hitting home runs around the outside than he is pounding the middle.

It's hard to say how suited our line is to the ground game, but its noticeable the change when Charbonnet is in and pounding it between the tackles. But Bradford is a road grader when given the chance. Brown has been solid. The tackle play has been questionable, even from our prized get last year in Cross. But the number of times we are asking them to pack pedal, instead of digging their heals in and firing off the line isn't helping anything.

Lucas coming back should help. And pumping Charbs early and committing to the ground game can get things on track.

JSN being integrated with his YAC ability is huge and seems to be unlocking opportunities for DK. That's a positive trend. As is the return of the TEs.

But agree. We need an identity

 

[WestCoastChippewa]

49ers ran the west coast offense with Walsh back when I was still in HS… I lost a lot of money betting against 49ers back then.
Air Coryell known today as the West Coast Offense was actually a mistake describing the offense that Bill was using at the time, the name stuck…

 

[BASF]

The problem with running a WCO is the receivers need to be exactly where they are supposed to be at the exact time. Most of our receivers are not precision route runners. They are given the freedom to work their routes how they feel is the best way to win that matchup and find a spot. Most of the disconnect this season is Geno choosing a spot and the receivers choosing a slightly different spot. Very frustrating to watch. And ultimately it falls on Waldron to get them on the same page.

Also, welcome to the forum. Hope to read more contributions.

 

[Lagartixa]

49ers ran the west coast offense with Walsh back when I was still in HS… I lost a lot of money betting against 49ers back then.
Air Coryell known today as the West Coast Offense was actually a mistake describing the offense that Bill was using at the time, the name stuck…

[Boldface and color emphasis are mine]

I suspect @EricV72 knows what I'm about to say and just messed up in typing his comment, because the main parts of the truth are in there. I'm guessing he was restructuring the sentence and didn't quite finish doing it. I do that kind of thing all the time.
I'm writing this comment more to clarify for others who might see the quoted comment and get confused.

Air Coryell is not known today as the West Coast offense.

The term "West Coast offense" was indeed originally used to refer to Air Coryell, and has been used to refer to a few different offensive strategies, but today it is used mostly to refer to the system Bill Walsh created and some of its variants that evolved through some of the coaches in the Walsh tree. But they're all quite different from Air Coryell.

 

[MORGULON]

Hey All,

Second post. In my first I assume people understood that I have been watching NFL football since 1968 or 9. So hopefully I am not totally ignorant but I'm sure some here will let me know if I am .

My Seahawks impressions...

Defense - really good and going to get better with experience. Not legion of boom yet as I think the D - line could really use a real first class defensive tackle. LW will do for now.

Offense - muddled an confused. I don't think they know what they are doing. I think PC (head coach) and the OC want to be the pocket passing power run team (like USC of old). I think this is PC's core identity but I don't think the seahawks have the O-line talent and sheer muscle to play that kind of football. They do muddle through time to time though but won't in the gauntlet of games coming up (niners cowboys eagles). The sad thing to me anyway is that I think the hawks do unquestionably have the talent to run what I believe to be the best (an my favorite) offensive scheme in likely the history of NFL football - the bill Walsh style west coast offense. The short pass sets up the run an the occasional deep ball. Look at the success by the niners packers under Arron R some others too and perhaps especially today the Chiefs.

Will the coaching staff of the Seahawks ever "get it"? Or at least mix elements of it in.

I will be curious to see if anyone here agrees or at least explains why I am wrong.

TIA for any replies...

-Ed-

Hello.

Nice post , I generally agree with what you said . I wonder if Pete Carroll will ever change his philosophy regarding the Xs and Os. He's had success so I can see where he'd be resistant to go jng another route. This is probably also why he has trouble with younger coaches coming with a different mindset. McVay to be honest.

Anyways, welcome to our dysfunctional world.

 

[WestCoastChippewa]

[Boldface and color emphasis are mine]

I suspect @EricV72 knows what I'm about to say and just messed up in typing his comment, because the main parts of the truth are in there. I'm guessing he was restructuring the sentence and didn't quite finish doing it. I do that kind of thing all the time.
I'm writing this comment more to clarify for others who might see the quoted comment and get confused.

Air Coryell is not known today as the West Coast offense.

The term "West Coast offense" was indeed originally used to refer to Air Coryell, and has been used to refer to a few different offensive strategies, but today it is used mostly to refer to the system Bill Walsh created and some of its variants that evolved through some of the coaches in the Walsh tree. But they're all quite different from Air Coryell.

No worries, you pretty much said what I wanted to say with about 4% battery life on my device…

 

[Jville]

Hey All,

Second post. In my first I assume people understood that I have been watching NFL football since 1968 or 9. So hopefully I am not totally ignorant but I'm sure some here will let me know if I am .

My Seahawks impressions...

Defense - really good and going to get better with experience. Not legion of boom yet as I think the D - line could really use a real first class defensive tackle. LW will do for now.

Offense - muddled an confused. I don't think they know what they are doing. I think PC (head coach) and the OC want to be the pocket passing power run team (like USC of old). I think this is PC's core identity but I don't think the seahawks have the O-line talent and sheer muscle to play that kind of football. They do muddle through time to time though but won't in the gauntlet of games coming up (niners cowboys eagles). The sad thing to me anyway is that I think the hawks do unquestionably have the talent to run what I believe to be the best (an my favorite) offensive scheme in likely the history of NFL football - the bill Walsh style west coast offense. The short pass sets up the run an the occasional deep ball. Look at the success by the niners packers under Arron R some others too and perhaps especially today the Chiefs.

Will the coaching staff of the Seahawks ever "get it"? Or at least mix elements of it in.

I will be curious to see if anyone here agrees or at least explains why I am wrong.

TIA for any replies...

-Ed-

Welcome aboard.

The game and it's rules and priorities has changed a lot since the days of Bill Walsh. Back then the game was a stadium spectacle. Where as today it is a video spectacle. Back then 21 personnel on offense and 4-3 or 3-4 on defense was the norm. Today it's 11 personnel on offense and nickle and dime defense as the norm. The passing game provides the eye candy that the current soda straw audience demands.

As such, the game has become much more difficult for quarterbacks. More routes and progressions. More fast defensive back threats down field with surprise rushes to contend with. Coaches and fans see things differently. In Seattle the goal is to try and make things easier on the quarterback. Where as critics and many fans want an eye candy quarterback that can do it all. A superstar that can deliver "Hero Ball".

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The problem with running a WCO is the receivers need to be exactly where they are supposed to be at the exact time. Most of our receivers are not precision route runners. They are given the freedom to work their routes how they feel is the best way to win that matchup and find a spot. Most of the disconnect this season is Geno choosing a spot and the receivers choosing a slightly different spot. Very frustrating to watch. And ultimately it falls on Waldron to get them on the same page.

Also, welcome to the forum. Hope to read more contributions.

I've never seen Lockett run a bad route in his entire career. But yes, both DK and JSN have some sloppy route running in their game.

But IMO it's also on Geno to trust his reads and get the ball out on time. Which he hasn't done a great job of this year, too much ball patting and standing in the pocket too long creating some timing problems with his receivers.

 

[hox]

Offense - muddled an confused. I don't think they know what they are doing. I think PC (head coach) and the OC want to be the pocket passing power run team (like USC of old). I think this is PC's core identity but I don't think the seahawks have the O-line talent and sheer muscle to play that kind of football. They do muddle through time to time though but won't in the gauntlet of games coming up (niners cowboys eagles). The sad thing to me anyway is that I think the hawks do unquestionably have the talent to run what I believe to be the best (an my favorite) offensive scheme in likely the history of NFL football - the bill Walsh style west coast offense. The short pass sets up the run an the occasional deep ball. Look at the success by the niners packers under Arron R some others too and perhaps especially today the Chiefs.

Yeah they are not a power running team. They have a mix of oline that can pass block better than they can run block and vice versa.

Whether they are running or passing the ball on early downs doesn't really matter though. The key is to get into 3rd and manageable on most downs.

In the Ravens case, Waldron called long developing pass plays, with a stationary pocket, even on short yardage situations when they needed to pick up 3-4 yards. That was just bad playcalling and game planning.

Last Sunday we saw more of the short passing game including screens. We saw some slants and crossers over the middle. There was even a Dissly sighting. We had more rushing attempts. YAC was emphasized to the players before the game. This is the formula moving forward. Save the chunk yardage attempts for when play action can be established, and where Geno is not a sitting duck in the pocket.

 

[Dvl Dug]

I just see the Hawk's as being the more physical team now. Week one was an aberration. Rams will play a close game, but they die in the end.

 

[cymatica]

OP seems spot on and the Ravens game was a perfect example. The coaches completely failed the team with one of the most incompetent looking game plans I've seen from a good team.

 

[Ozzy]

I've never seen Lockett run a bad route in his entire career. But yes, both DK and JSN have some sloppy route running in their game.

But IMO it's also on Geno to trust his reads and get the ball out on time. Which he hasn't done a great job of this year, too much ball patting and standing in the pocket too long creating some timing problems with his receivers.

I think JSN is going to be an elite route runner once he’s comfortable in the system. He was in college

 

[scutterhawk]

I've never seen Lockett run a bad route in his entire career. But yes, both DK and JSN have some sloppy route running in their game.

But IMO it's also on Geno to trust his reads and get the ball out on time. Which he hasn't done a great job of this year, too much ball patting and standing in the pocket too long creating some timing problems with his receivers.

AND opening himself up for more anticipated Stalls in getting the ball out, and thus making it easier for Defenses to position themselves (Reading the QB's eyes) and making plays on the ball... That part is on Geno, as he doesn't 'Look Off' his Receivers like he should.
These are very fixable mistakes that aren't being addressed by the OC, Pete, and the QB Coach.

 

[GemCity]

2nd post and calling out PC?

Watch your back! The .netizens are coming for you

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

I think the heavy skew to the pass is Waldron. Over the last 3 games we are passing 67% of the time. Thats unheard of for a PC offense.

In 2019, arguably Russ's best overall season, we passed at 56%. Even in 2020, when Russ was on his MVP hunt, we still finished the season at 59%. Schotty had a great formula going, but one that Russ didn't care for. I wish Brian were still here because if he was, I think we'd be head and shoulders above where we are now on offense.

We are out of whack and the biggest problem I see is Shane forcing a passing game that still has fairly standard PA at its core, but no running game to threaten defenses. That, and a RB leading the charge who is best suited to hitting home runs around the outside than he is pounding the middle.

It's hard to say how suited our line is to the ground game, but its noticeable the change when Charbonnet is in and pounding it between the tackles. But Bradford is a road grader when given the chance. Brown has been solid. The tackle play has been questionable, even from our prized get last year in Cross. But the number of times we are asking them to pack pedal, instead of digging their heals in and firing off the line isn't helping anything.

Lucas coming back should help. And pumping Charbs early and committing to the ground game can get things on track.

JSN being integrated with his YAC ability is huge and seems to be unlocking opportunities for DK. That's a positive trend. As is the return of the TEs.

But agree. We need an identity

Agreed.

Also, for offensive coordinators, you get more NFL attention and looked to be HC candidates when you primarily employ a more pass dominant offensive scheme.

Not saying Waldron is a HC candidate but he wants to showcase his pass offense to the rest of the league in any fashion that Carroll will allow.

The short pass game the OP reference in which he believes the Seahawks are best suited for, I also agree, only problem is Carroll hates the short pass game offense.

The man would rather run, 3 yards, 5 yards, 6 yards, again 2 yards, and again 3 yards, than throw for 6-7 yard quick routes etc. anything that will add to additional defenders closer to the box is what Carroll doesn’t like, because if Seattle plays with that let’s go deep mentality scheme, if a running back breaks into the second level, there may be an added chance, the tailback will get the advantage over the corners and safeties especially if they are lined up honest in off coverage or so giving space because they fear the deep pass.

That’s just my take, but I agree, Seattle’s offensive line is more set to play in a short pass scheme more so right now, than it is power football and play action deep throws. To me it explains why Seattle hasn’t thrown successful deep passes in the past few weeks. Seattle’s offensive line and whatever Geno has in between in his head has prevented Seattle from playing deep ball shots down the field more so than they usually try to play.

Just my thoughts.

 

[WestCoastChippewa]

Quite honestly, I’d like to see JSN & Bobo early to open up the run game, and then maybe drop some dimes down field. I know, I’m forgetting TE’s.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I think JSN is going to be an elite route runner once he’s comfortable in the system. He was in college

Me too, and I'm not knocking JSN at all. He's one of the most polished rookies I've ever seen.

I certainly give JSN a pass while he's a rookie developing and learning. DK? Not so much........and he does seem better of late. But there were quite a few bad routes run earlier in the year. Or just pulling up when he didn't think he was getting the ball.

But again, that's also on Geno to get him the ball on time.

 

[BASF]

I've never seen Lockett run a bad route in his entire career. But yes, both DK and JSN have some sloppy route running in their game.

But IMO it's also on Geno to trust his reads and get the ball out on time. Which he hasn't done a great job of this year, too much ball patting and standing in the pocket too long creating some timing problems with his receivers.

I agree about Lockett. The reason I did not say wide receivers is I was including the tight ends and running backs as receivers. JSN has a lot to polish at the pro level. He has had a few targets early in the season where the linebackers were jumping the quick hitter because the way he ran the route didn't sell any other direction.

 

[Dvl Dug]

Just saying... an offense can run the ball on 3rd down!
Don't know when I last seen that from this 25th ranked offense.
It's become kind of an enigma....???