Why '23 will be better than '22: Front 7

[olyfan63]

We are still a bit undetermined at the middle, 1T/NT and Devin Bush, at least most here aren't sold on Bush yet.

Hoping for Bush to become one of Pete's Father Flanagan reclamation projects. Tho I don't recall any character issues with Bush, just that he didn't light the NFL on fire after coming back from his ACL injury. Almost a Darren Smith kind of feel to him, size and height wise, just not sure if Bush will recovery his pre-ACL speed.

 

[hawkfan68]

Don't tell Doug Baldwin, Jermaine Kearse, Joe Nash, Mack Strong, Jordan Babineaux, Jim Zorn/Dave Krieg that...

Michael Bennett was an UDFA too

 

[FLSeahawk]

I'd be curious to know what Charles Cross has to say about Cameron Young, since they were both at Miss St.

Also, Young and UDFA Jonah Tavai played in 3-3-5 schemes which we know PCJS have talked a lot about where they want to put 3 safeties on the field.

I wouldn't be surprised to see 4-3 bear fronts on 1st down, 3-4 base fronts on 2nd down, and 3-3-5 big nickel fronts on 3rd down during the season.

It's May though. I guess we won't know for sure until training camp in July/Aug.

I agree. That seems to be the only thing that makes sense personnel wise at this point.

 

[jlwaters1]

Young and Cooper are not nose tackles. I would sign Linval Joseph to a one-year contract. He would be better than anyone we have now. If not, then go to 4-3 and just admit we don’t have the personnel to play 3-4.

Young is a nose tackle that’s what he was drafted to play.

 

[Bear-Hawk]

Young is a nose tackle that’s what he was drafted to play.

I know. On paper, he’s a nose tackle. On the field, I have my doubts…..304 is pretty light for a NT.

 

[bileever]

I've read a lot of comments here by people lamenting the loss of Woods and Ford, and while I agree that it doesn't appear that we've "fixed" the D-line yet, I don't think that letting Woods and Ford walk was an accident. One big key to success in the NFL is the ability to self-scout and diagnose what is not working on your own team. Whatever other people might think about Ford and Woods, Pete and his staff must have decided that they were more the problem than the solution.

We have long-term experience with those players. Some here talk about the bad defense last year as if it came out of the blue. In 2021, it was bad, too. Although in 2021, in terms of points given up, we were just mediocre, if you look at the number of yards, we were the fifth-worst team in the league. In 2022, we were the 7th-worst in yards given up. We were definitely worse against the run last year, with only the Bears and Texans being worse, but it wasn't like we were elite against the run in 2021.

I just hope that Pete and his coaches have correctly identified the source of the problems, and have started to bring in the right players to remedy the situation. But I don't think that keeping the status quo with what we had was really an option.

 

[Sun Tzu]

I know. On paper, he’s a nose tackle. On the field, I have my doubts…..304 is pretty light for a NT.

Your doubts may be based on bad assumptions. Assumptions are often based on outdated or inaccurate information. My guess is that the perspectives of many on this board are based on outdated information and myopic views of modern NFL defenses. There are currently 19 teams, including SEA, that run a 3 - 4 base defense. Of those teams, the average NT weight is 302.89 lbs, the lightest is 287 lbs, and the heaviest is 355 lbs. The size of the NT (and D-line in general) provides a hint as to how a team and D-coordinator want to play. Look at the size of the D-line for the LA Rams during their peak years.

I have concerns about how the Hawks' D-line will perform. My concerns are not based on the weight of a rookie NT, they are based on the inexperience of a couple of potentially key players, lack of cohesiveness from having so many new faces all at once, the potential scheme player fit, and depth.

 

[Kamcussionator]

Seahawks HC Carroll talks defensive scheme, pass rushers, more

During his interview with Seattle Sports' Brock and Salk, Pete Carroll shared some insight into the Seattle Seahawks' defense.

sports.mynorthwest.com

 

[Bear-Hawk]

Your doubts may be based on bad assumptions. Assumptions are often based on outdated or inaccurate information. My guess is that the perspectives of many on this board are based on outdated information and myopic views of modern NFL defenses. There are currently 19 teams, including SEA, that run a 3 - 4 base defense. Of those teams, the average NT weight is 302.89 lbs, the lightest is 287 lbs, and the heaviest is 355 lbs. The size of the NT (and D-line in general) provides a hint as to how a team and D-coordinator want to play. Look at the size of the D-line for the LA Rams during their peak years.

I have concerns about how the Hawks' D-line will perform. My concerns are not based on the weight of a rookie NT, they are based on the inexperience of a couple of potentially key players, lack of cohesiveness from having so many new faces all at once, the potential scheme player fit, and depth.

For 2023, other teams playing 3-4 are the Colts, Chargers, Packers, Ravens, Cardinals, Steelers, Commanders.

Their nose tackles average 324 pounds.

The Steelers seem to be in the same situation as the Seahawks. They may be trying to play their rookie (Benton) at nose tackle. He also weighs 309.

To be clear, I am not saying that a guy who weighs under 310 cannot play the position. But it is a disadvantage that he would have to compensate with technique and strength. Young may be able to do it, but I will be surprised.

 

[Sun Tzu]

For 2023, other teams playing 3-4 are the Colts, Chargers, Packers, Ravens, Cardinals, Steelers, Commanders.

Their nose tackles average 324 pounds.

The Steelers seem to be in the same situation as the Seahawks. They may be trying to play their rookie (Benton) at nose tackle. He also weighs 309.

To be clear, I am not saying that a guy who weighs under 310 cannot play the position. But it is a disadvantage that he would have to compensate with technique and strength. Young may be able to do it, but I will be surprised.

Why pick a specific sample of 3-4 teams rather than every team that plays a base 3-4? Could this be a feeble attempt to support a position by manipulating the data (also known as dishonesty)?

 

[Bear-Hawk]

Why pick a specific sample of 3-4 teams rather than every team that plays a base 3-4? Could this be a feeble attempt to support a position by manipulating the data (also known as dishonesty)?

No, I did not have time to do a complete survey. You can add the Rams, Falcons, Giants, Vikings, Dolphins, Bucs, Broncos, Pats, Titans, and Jags to my list.


The average is still 324 pounds.

Again, there are a few under 310 who might be able to do the job. But, for the nose tackle position, a good BIG man is better than a good smaller man, in general. Maybe Young can do it. I hope so.

 

[Sun Tzu]

No, I did not have time to do a complete survey. You can add the Rams, Falcons, Giants, Vikings, Dolphins, Bucs, Broncos, Pats, Titans, and Jags to my list.


The average is still 324 pounds.

Again, there are a few under 310 who might be able to do the job. But, for the nose tackle position, a good BIG man is better than a good smaller man, in general. Maybe Young can do it. I hope so.

The average is not 324. It is 303. Look up the projected 2023 starting NT from every team that runs a 3-4 base defense (19 teams according to PFF and 18 according to Pro Football Reference). Also, there are more NTs listed under 310 (10) than over 310 (9), so your comment that "there are a few under 310" does not hold water. Why not try to make your point without the dishonesty?

I am not saying the Hawks are set at DT or NT, and I am not saying that Young is going to be a pro bowler. I am saying that your perspective is distorted by outdated and inaccurate information. There are currently several very effective NTs on above-average defenses that are under 310. Many factors other than weight determine effectiveness (height, arm length, explosiveness, strength, toughness, technique, and scheme fit to name a few).

Saying NTs need to be in the 320-plus range to be effective is as outdated as saying QBs have to be 6'4", or that MLBs need to be Ray Lewis/Dick Butkus size, or that Aaron Donald is too small to play at the NFL level.

 

[BASF]

The average is not 324. It is 303. Look up the projected 2023 starting NT from every team that runs a 3-4 base defense (19 teams according to PFF and 18 according to Pro Football Reference). Also, there are more NTs listed under 310 (10) than over 310 (9), so your comment that "there are a few under 310" does not hold water. Why not try to make your point without the dishonesty?

I am not saying the Hawks are set at DT or NT, and I am not saying that Young is going to be a pro bowler. I am saying that your perspective is distorted by outdated and inaccurate information. There are currently several very effective NTs on above-average defenses that are under 310. Many factors other than weight determine effectiveness (height, arm length, explosiveness, strength, toughness, technique, and scheme fit to name a few).

Saying NTs need to be in the 320-plus range to be effective is as outdated as saying QBs have to be 6'4", or that MLBs need to be Ray Lewis/Dick Butkus size, or that Aaron Donald is too small to play at the NFL level.

To be fair, if it wasn't for the HGH, Donald would be too small to play at the NFL level.

 

[Bear-Hawk]

The average is not 324. It is 303. Look up the projected 2023 starting NT from every team that runs a 3-4 base defense (19 teams according to PFF and 18 according to Pro Football Reference). Also, there are more NTs listed under 310 (10) than over 310 (9), so your comment that "there are a few under 310" does not hold water. Why not try to make your point without the dishonesty?

I am not saying the Hawks are set at DT or NT, and I am not saying that Young is going to be a pro bowler. I am saying that your perspective is distorted by outdated and inaccurate information. There are currently several very effective NTs on above-average defenses that are under 310. Many factors other than weight determine effectiveness (height, arm length, explosiveness, strength, toughness, technique, and scheme fit to name a few).

Saying NTs need to be in the 320-plus range to be effective is as outdated as saying QBs have to be 6'4", or that MLBs need to be Ray Lewis/Dick Butkus size, or that Aaron Donald is too small to play at the NFL level.

I have said two or three times that it is not impossible to play nose tackle at <310 pounds. It just makes it tougher. But you can compensate somewhat with quickness, strength, technique, etc. Nevertheless, there is an advantage to weight at that position.

My data is from the projected starters at NT on teams post-2023 draft, using the depth charts at ourlads.com

If you really want to get into the weeds on this, I could give you the specific names of the players they see as starting NT’s on all these teams, or you can look it up yourself. In any case, the average is 324 pounds — honestly.

 

[MyrtleHawk]

Cam Young up to 320-something, according to Pete Carroll. Young will probably start as NT

 

[Bear-Hawk]

Cam Young up to 320-something, according to Pete Carroll. Young will probably start as NT

Good. If it’s solid weight, 320+ gets him up to average NT weight. 330+ would be even better. I found an article that listed the all-time 10 best NT’s in NFL history. They averaged 334 pounds. Jay Ratliff is the only one under 310. This illustrates my point that it is possible to do it at 310, but less probable. That’s why Young is working to add bulk to play NT at NFL level.

 

[FrodosFinger]

Anytime you can add a receiver like JSN to the mix it’ll open up 11 personnel as a primary set. Defensively they had a busy offseason. 12 wins minimum guaranteed

 

[toffee]

Pete just said that Cameron Young is up to 325 lbs now, sounded like DC/DL coaches fully intent on him bulking up to be the NT. As is we have two 320lbs plus linemen on roster.

 

[toffee]

Cam Young up to 320-something, according to Pete Carroll. Young will probably start as NT

The green jacket was way bigger lol

 

[FrodosFinger]

Pete just said that Cameron Young is up to 325 lbs now, sounded like DC/DL coaches fully I tent on him bulking up to be the NT. As is we have two 320lbs plus linemen on roster.

Steal of the draft