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 Post subject: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:26 pm 
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I'm just kind of curious as to the pulse of NET Nation as to what we should do at the Linebacker position most recently vacated by Leroy Hill.

I'm sure these aren't ALL the options, but these seem the best ones IMO (in no particular order)

1) Re-sign Hill to another one year deal and see if Smith can compete and win the job

2) Tentatively give the job to Smith and draft a middle to late round guy to compete and/or backup

3) Draft someone high in the draft (1st 2 rounds) to hopefully win the starting position leaving Smith as a backup

4) Find someone through Free agency

What does the NET Nation think is our best option to try to solidify or improve this position?

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:39 pm 
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Number three but go for the best in the 3rd round.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:58 pm 
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1) I'd like to see Hill resigned. He can still play and his market value continues to decline .... so the price should be right.

2) Smith's developement would benefit from preseason snaps. But, it seems to me that he has yet to serve notice that he will develop into a future 3 down linebacker.

3) Going forward, KJ Wright and Bobby Wagner are the only (core) 3 down linebackers on the roster. So ...... continuing the search is a need.

4) I'm uncomfortable with the lack of well rounded backups behind the starters. Most of the linebacker roster is made up of specialists for special teams and role players to fill subpackage options.


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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:01 pm 
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2) if Smitty's good enough for that, 3) if he's not.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:03 pm 
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Jville wrote:
1) I'd like to see Hill resigned. He can still play and his market value continues to decline .... so the price should be right.

2) Smith's developement would benefit from preseason snaps. But, it seems to me that he has yet to serve notice that he will develop into a future 3 down linebacker.

3) Going forward, KJ Wright and Bobby Wagner are the only (core) 3 down linebackers on the roster. So ...... continuing the search is a need.

4) I'm uncomfortable with the lack of well rounded backups behind the starters. Most of the linebacker roster is made up of specialists for special teams and role players to fill subpackage options.


Hill cost us two games last year. No thanks. His run instincts are still good, his wheels are falling off, and his zone coverage handoff instincts are abysmal.
My biggest concern is I am not seeing very many college backers with great gap integrity instincts. Maybe it's because so few college teams run the ball up the middle gaps anymore.

I really like Sio Moore as an all around player. I also like a 6th or 7th on AJ Klein, who while not fast, would be an upgrade over Hill from day one. I think he might be the most instinctual linebacker in the draft. And he can cover some.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:10 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:39 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:
Jville wrote:
1) I'd like to see Hill resigned. He can still play and his market value continues to decline .... so the price should be right.

2) Smith's developement would benefit from preseason snaps. But, it seems to me that he has yet to serve notice that he will develop into a future 3 down linebacker.

3) Going forward, KJ Wright and Bobby Wagner are the only (core) 3 down linebackers on the roster. So ...... continuing the search is a need.

4) I'm uncomfortable with the lack of well rounded backups behind the starters. Most of the linebacker roster is made up of specialists for special teams and role players to fill subpackage options.


Hill cost us two games last year. No thanks. His run instincts are still good, his wheels are falling off, and his zone coverage handoff instincts are abysmal.
My biggest concern is I am not seeing very many college backers with great gap integrity instincts. Maybe it's because so few college teams run the ball up the middle gaps anymore.

I really like Sio Moore as an all around player. I also like a 6th or 7th on AJ Klein, who while not fast, would be an upgrade over Hill from day one. I think he might be the most instinctual linebacker in the draft. And he can cover some.


I'm all for going after a well rounded 3 down backer. I think there is a pressing need. Gap integrity and tackling are certainly concerns with young players. Athletes like Aaron Curry ...... Korey Toomer ..... couldn't play.

Hill's game may have been reduced to that of a 2 down backer. But, behind him it gets a little scary (to me) on run downs.

Ken Norton is gonna have to pick out one of the kids available to work with and do that thing he does.


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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:42 pm 
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Smith played OK. He's a step down from Hill, but has more upside. Morgan is also a valid option. There's nothing wrong with resigning Hill. There's nothing wrong with not.

All told, we have some fine options at OLB. And while we could probably upgrade if needed, I feel that we have some depth and bigger fish to fry.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:49 pm 
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IIRC, our third linebacker only plays 35% of the defensive snaps . . . Go with Smith and a late round guy.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:52 pm 
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Hill is over the hill, time to upgrade at his position and we are ok at LB if we replace him.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 6:58 pm 
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If I had to pick one that I think will happen, it's #2. He looked good against the bears, so I think he can handling the job and he's still growing as a player.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:05 pm 
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I just want Hill replaced with someone that can cover and stop the run. FA, draft or currently on the roster so be it. Make it happen. It has nothing to do with smoking dro, its all performance related.


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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:07 pm 
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I think they want to give the job to Smith, but will also look to add someone via FA just to be on the safe side.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:24 pm 
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What two games did Leroy Hill cost us this last season? Just wondering.... I'd like to know how an outside linebacker can cost the team a game on his own.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 7:49 pm 
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kidhawk wrote:
I'm just kind of curious as to the pulse of NET Nation as to what we should do at the Linebacker position most recently vacated by Leroy Hill.

I'm sure these aren't ALL the options, but these seem the best ones IMO (in no particular order)

1) Re-sign Hill to another one year deal and see if Smith can compete and win the job

2) Tentatively give the job to Smith and draft a middle to late round guy to compete and/or backup

3) Draft someone high in the draft (1st 2 rounds) to hopefully win the starting position leaving Smith as a backup

4) Find someone through Free agency

What does the NET Nation think is our best option to try to solidify or improve this position?

Well, Pete won't "give" the job to anybody. At least that is his core philosophy, and I think he'll stick to that.

So, with that in mind I think they'll do this......in this order....

1. Mine the FA market to find someone who could compete. He wouldn't be a high profile guy, but more of a 2nd/3rd tier guy.

2. Draft a linebacker, probably in the mid to late rounds but maybe earlier, to come in and compete as a rook. You'd love a guy who might not be the starter in September, but could win the job by November, say.

3. (Might happen sooner chronologically, but I think it's low priority, so it's here) Re-sign LeRoy Hill to a small vet min contract of 1-2 years. He'll likely not win the position outright, but he might if stage 1 or 2 doesn't turn up a good prospect. He'd be a decent backup at least and maybe a stopgap if we go stage 2 and the new guy can't start until later in the season.

I just don't see them breaking the bank on a FA, and although they're looking for pass rush, I don't see replacing Hill as fitting into that "improving the pass rush" mold. So early draft would go to DL, I would think.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:06 pm 
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i liked smith but he never won the job.
I like the mid or third round lucky pick like the other two studs. The add OSI.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:10 pm 
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Draft former Ken Norton disciple Uona Kaveinga in the 7th round and watch him light it up. Norton and Carroll know him well, and they know what he can do. He will possibly be a very late round pick or an UFA, but he's an NFL level player, was just about as highly recruited as Te'o and played out of position at MLB because Kyle Van Noy (who is better than Heisman runner up Te'o) occupied the outside. Kaveinga is a baller and exactly the kind of guy that Schneider finds and that becomes a great player in the system (see Chancellor, Kam... Browner, Brandon... Sherman, Richard... Wilson, Russell.... etc.).

Believe me... they know this dude. He and Norton are close, and I think Norton is involved heavily in the LBer scouting since Smith played so much last year. Don't tell me there is friction because Kaveinga transferred. It had nothing to do with anything negative. They are still on great terms, and I guarantee you that Norton and Pete have watched him closely and my guess is they will take a chance on him if they think he can play in the NFL. I think he can. I believe they agree. I hope he gets a tryout and turns some heads. No, I don't think this is NCAA, and I do think this is topical because the mention of Norton, and statement #2 in the original post. To me, this adds up to statement #2 and is precisely why I got specific.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:28 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:
Jville wrote:
1) I'd like to see Hill resigned. He can still play and his market value continues to decline .... so the price should be right.

2) Smith's developement would benefit from preseason snaps. But, it seems to me that he has yet to serve notice that he will develop into a future 3 down linebacker.

3) Going forward, KJ Wright and Bobby Wagner are the only (core) 3 down linebackers on the roster. So ...... continuing the search is a need.

4) I'm uncomfortable with the lack of well rounded backups behind the starters. Most of the linebacker roster is made up of specialists for special teams and role players to fill subpackage options.


Hill cost us two games last year. No thanks. His run instincts are still good, his wheels are falling off, and his zone coverage handoff instincts are abysmal.
My biggest concern is I am not seeing very many college backers with great gap integrity instincts. Maybe it's because so few college teams run the ball up the middle gaps anymore.

I really like Sio Moore as an all around player. I also like a 6th or 7th on AJ Klein, who while not fast, would be an upgrade over Hill from day one. I think he might be the most instinctual linebacker in the draft. And he can cover some.


Which ones? Miami and ?

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:31 pm 
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Zowert wrote:
What two games did Leroy Hill cost us this last season? Just wondering.... I'd like to know how an outside linebacker can cost the team a game on his own.

Hill got picked on by Miami in the second half. I have no problem hanging that loss on Hill, though Trufant played a role too. Hill was lousy against Detroit too. Both of those were games we could have won with just one more play, and it's pretty easy to look at each game and see where Hill got abused a half dozen times in pass pro.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:02 pm 
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I'd love to try a low cost FA like Larry Grant from the 49ers. He may be a little big for OLB but that's what he played in college. I remember what a beast he was in relief of Willis against the Hawks in 2011. He had like 10 tackles and a sack. He barely played lest year so I'm sure he wants to see the field. The nice thing about signing a guy like that is that it would be low risk


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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:20 pm 
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Scottemojo wrote:
Hill cost us two games last year. No thanks. His run instincts are still good, his wheels are falling off, and his zone coverage handoff instincts are abysmal.
My biggest concern is I am not seeing very many college backers with great gap integrity instincts. Maybe it's because so few college teams run the ball up the middle gaps anymore.

I really like Sio Moore as an all around player. I also like a 6th or 7th on AJ Klein, who while not fast, would be an upgrade over Hill from day one. I think he might be the most instinctual linebacker in the draft. And he can cover some.


Precisely what I've pointed out as well. A replacement for Hill at WILL ranks right up there on the priority list next to a new 3 Technique DT. I would agree with your assessment of the college LB's as well. That said, I DO like a couple of names in this year's draft quite a lot. Sio Moore is a name that I could see the Hawks taking in the 2nd or 3rd Round. Another name that I personally really like (and that I could actually see them taking at #25 or trading down to take if most of the top DT's and DE's are gone by that point) is Khaseem Greene of Rutgers. This guy could really fit the bill of what the Hawks are looking for at that WILL position. The more I study Greene and learn about him ... the more that I see him as being a real Russell Wilson type from the LB position (great leadership and intangibles). Those are the 2 names that I'm seeing as making the most sense for the Hawks at this point in time.


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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:11 am 
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Scottemojo wrote:
Hill cost us two games last year. No thanks. His run instincts are still good, his wheels are falling off, and his zone coverage handoff instincts are abysmal.
My biggest concern is I am not seeing very many college backers with great gap integrity instincts. Maybe it's because so few college teams run the ball up the middle gaps anymore.

I really like Sio Moore as an all around player. I also like a 6th or 7th on AJ Klein, who while not fast, would be an upgrade over Hill from day one. I think he might be the most instinctual linebacker in the draft. And he can cover some.


You can add in a third and goal play where he hit Stephens-Howling at the two yard line and got pushed back into the end zone in a game we lost by four.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:33 pm 
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Either way we need to add depth, as much as I like Smith he's injury prone so if he's the option we need insurance behind him.


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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:55 pm 
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Hawkscanner wrote:
Scottemojo wrote:
Hill cost us two games last year. No thanks. His run instincts are still good, his wheels are falling off, and his zone coverage handoff instincts are abysmal.
My biggest concern is I am not seeing very many college backers with great gap integrity instincts. Maybe it's because so few college teams run the ball up the middle gaps anymore.

I really like Sio Moore as an all around player. I also like a 6th or 7th on AJ Klein, who while not fast, would be an upgrade over Hill from day one. I think he might be the most instinctual linebacker in the draft. And he can cover some.


Precisely what I've pointed out as well. A replacement for Hill at WILL ranks right up there on the priority list next to a new 3 Technique DT. I would agree with your assessment of the college LB's as well. That said, I DO like a couple of names in this year's draft quite a lot. Sio Moore is a name that I could see the Hawks taking in the 2nd or 3rd Round. Another name that I personally really like (and that I could actually see them taking at #25 or trading down to take if most of the top DT's and DE's are gone by that point) is Khaseem Greene of Rutgers. This guy could really fit the bill of what the Hawks are looking for at that WILL position. The more I study Greene and learn about him ... the more that I see him as being a real Russell Wilson type from the LB position (great leadership and intangibles). Those are the 2 names that I'm seeing as making the most sense for the Hawks at this point in time.


I really like Greene too. I'm hoping he would fall to us in the 2nd though.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 8:59 pm 
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If Hill is cheap keep him as backup. Who is the starter Smith?


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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:06 pm 
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It really depends on FA. I think our biggest needs on defense are 3 Tech DT, DE, and OLB.

The most glaring weakness is DE. DT, well they could resign Jones; I don't think that would be too expensive. When he was out, our QB pressure took a noticable hit. OLB....the times I saw Morgan step it, I was impressed. I dunno if he's as good at WILL as SAM, but he filled in nicely for Wright and he seems athletic enough. Smith has also seemed decent but not impressive.

If we can fill the gap at DT, use the pick for a LB. I'd love to see us pick up a guy like Bennett from the Bucs, but I'm not sure how much he would cost. I like Starks from Miami and stylistically I think he fits.


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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:55 pm 
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Jones cost us 4.5 million this year, would he really take a pay cut?


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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 7:43 am 
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I think we see something like what we saw with Barrett Rudd and Bobby Wagner; bring in a capable journeyman, draft a rook fairly high (2nd or 3rd round) and give Malcolm a chance to compete with those two guys (whoever they end up being).

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 8:14 am 
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CANHawk wrote:
I think we see something like what we saw with Barrett Rudd and Bobby Wagner; bring in a capable journeyman, draft a rook fairly high (2nd or 3rd round) and give Malcolm a chance to compete with those two guys (whoever they end up being).

What? You expect Pete to handle this situation just like he's handled all the other similar situations so far?

(Yeah that deserves a :sarcasm_off:)

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:35 am 
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Not feeling Smith. He is a liability against the run (also the cause of our demise last year).
Resign Hill or another cheap veteran....
Draft a 2/3rd round lb to compete for the job.

I'm also curious about Anthony Spencer. If he could play lb in the 4-3 he'd be a huge get.
That's a big if and would cost us, but he wouldn't need to be a 3 down lb and has pass rush ability. Pass rush is worth the $$. Scheme is the major??


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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:55 am 
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McGruff wrote:
IIRC, our third linebacker only plays 35% of the defensive snaps . . . Go with Smith and a late round guy.


I obviously agree 100% that with Hill as starting WILL, he has only been on the field for 35% of the time. But is that because it is part of the defensive philosophy of the Seahawks? or if they had an option available to them other than Hill - someone who could play both the pass and the run with excellence - would they change their personnel packages and have the WILL on the field on passing downs?

If having the WILL on the field only 35% of the snaps is a core value, then clearly it would seem silly to waste a top draft pick on a first-down only player.....


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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:11 pm 
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McGruff wrote:
IIRC, our third linebacker only plays 35% of the defensive snaps . . . Go with Smith and a late round guy.


Do you have a link to this or, even better, a link to a site that breaksdown all Seahawk snaps by formation? I'm curious.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:38 pm 
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Recon_Hawk wrote:
McGruff wrote:
IIRC, our third linebacker only plays 35% of the defensive snaps . . . Go with Smith and a late round guy.


Do you have a link to this or, even better, a link to a site that breaksdown all Seahawk snaps by formation? I'm curious.


Hill actually played 50% of the Seahawks defensive snaps. Smith 17% so you can estimate 33% of the time the Hawks don't use their WLB.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts


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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:06 pm 
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I knowmSnado had a link to how often the Hawks were in Nicke or Dime D, and it was a lot . . . But I can't remember where it was.

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 Post subject: Re: What to do at OLB?
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:12 am 
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kidhawk wrote:
I'm just kind of curious as to the pulse of NET Nation as to what we should do at the Linebacker position most recently vacated by Leroy Hill.

I'm sure these aren't ALL the options, but these seem the best ones IMO (in no particular order)

1) Re-sign Hill to another one year deal and see if Smith can compete and win the job

2) Tentatively give the job to Smith and draft a middle to late round guy to compete and/or backup

3) Draft someone high in the draft (1st 2 rounds) to hopefully win the starting position leaving Smith as a backup

4) Find someone through Free agency

What does the NET Nation think is our best option to try to solidify or improve this position?


1 & 3 (3rd round). Hill will be cheap. Let them com "pete".


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