Sigh. Just add alcohol sadly enough. And Testosterone. Not a great combo when their pal Bravado shows up. I've had my share of fun at the games, even times where I tipped a bit back more than I care to admit, but I can't imagine being this out of control and inhumane to other people. To be fair, this occurs in every single stadium and fanbase around the NFL every single game day, but as Seahawks fans, WE SHOULD BE BETTER THAN THIS!

http://seattletimes.com/html/take2/2020 ... two28.html

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"We're about to be legendary." - Richard Sherman to the Seahawks sideline in the 3rd quarter of SBXLVIII

I can't stand it when I see this sort of behavior. it is unfortunate that it happens in every single stadium.. remember the guy on the site here or on the old scout site that got jumped and beaten to a pulp at a 49rs game..... its sad.....

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--/*Seattle Seahawks*\--

There's always going to be a few bad apples that really cross the line, that's unfortunate.

I do want opposing fans to feel unwelcome in our house, though. I don't want them there.

No surprise. As sacred as this sport is to me, it brings out the lowest common denominator in many people. As you know, Todd, it almost cost me my life. But you're right. Good people everywhere need to stand up and fight improper downright evil behavior. Take a stand.

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"Some people here have been groomed to accept mediocrity and lame ducks, I'm on board with the vibrato!" -SouthSoundHawk
"BFS is kicking ass in here." -kearly (8/9/2013)

I took my 10 and 14 year old daughters to their first game this year. We experienced none of the animosity the woman in the article describes anywhere in the greater downtown Seattle area. There were lots of opposing teams fans in our section as well. There will always be radicals at every sporting event. I know, I used to work security in my youth. Comes with the territory I suppose.

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#NEXTMANUP

I've thought for years that alcohol should be banned at multiple sections for games (say half the stadium it is fine, half it is a no-no). I used to sit in the no booze section at M's games. It was much better. They used to have it for Hawks games at the Kingdome too. There was literally a fence in the concourse on both sides of it that prevented others from even passing through that area. Of course fire codes made it so that the fence had to be removed. But I much prefer an alcohol free game experience. It just doesn't mix well with my personality. I get frustrated at the idiocy of a FEW (yes, I realize it's not most). But I get even more frustrated when I leave the stadium and the same idiot who can't even keep his eyes open climbs behind the wheel of a car. I don't know how many of you have lost a family member to a drunk driver, but I lost my aunt that way, so my feelings are quite strong on the subject.

I understand that beer and gambling are what the NFL is all about. Fine. But it leads to many problems and drives many fans away from the event. I'm not going to fly up for any more games unless I'm certain I will be safe. Last time I spent all of my money for a game against the Raiders and had to jump in to prevent a pile of people from smashing my elderly mother as they fought up and down the aisles in the lower bowl and security did nothing. I was embarrassed. I am still embarrassed.

Football is a great spectator sport, but I've gotten to a point where I enjoy it more at home than at the field, and that's the only sport I can say that much is true for. Every other sport I enjoy tenfold more in the stadium. I love my alcohol free family section seats for MLS games. It makes for a really nice game experience, and I haven't had to yell at anybody to stop doing/saying/acting the way they are in front of my kid. Sorry... but I pay full price for his ticket as well, and there are things he shouldn't have to see or here, and surprisingly, he doesn't hear any of that stuff when alcohol isn't involved.

Let's not make this a moral issue, a religious issue, a snobbery issue, or anything else with me. Let's say what it is. For me... it's a safety issue. I walk with a cane. I am not a big strong man like I was even five years ago. If somebody got to the point where they wanted to mess up myself and my 9 year old they sure could. So I am not attending NFL games. We go to Disneyland with our vacation money instead. I guess the NFL does fine without us, but I'd expect better. It seems to me that the sport has resorted to total hooliganism. Gone are the days of Tom Landry where even fans were respectful in the crowd as he was on the field. Now it's like everybody wants to be a Ryan brother. No thanks.

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R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
1/12/39 - 8/7/08

It's definitely isolated pockets and doesn't speak for the majority of Seahawks fans, but I want to make it clear, that if YOU see this bullshit, you need to help STOP it. Stand up for decency. Represent 12 with class. Look, I want the opposing team fans to be as uncomfortable as possible, but within reason for God's sakes. They are still human beings. Sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters...They have the same struggles in life as you and I do. To treat them as sub-human due to the color of their jersey is no different than the stupid gang bangers who do the same on the streets, maybe just less bullets is all.

Alcohol is not an excuse to be a DICK.

Hmm...Maybe I should make some t-shirts.

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"We're about to be legendary." - Richard Sherman to the Seahawks sideline in the 3rd quarter of SBXLVIII

There are some real dipsticks out there. And we have our share of them.

Lets ask fans of the English Premier League if this is a problem? LAWLS

Yes its stupid that fans take it to far. But you also have to understand that you'll be teased to some extent joking or not joking wearing an opposing teams jersey. I've also seen it when opposing fans come in and act like total losers. I remember seeing Niner fans pissing on walls in the restrooms at Salty's before a game years ago. Some opposing fans will take Seahawk fans who are joking around in good fun and twist it too.

This type of trash story is typical of the seattle times. They give so much press to isolated incidents that happen in every freaking stadium, field and arena in sports and make it as if all Hawk fans are drunken jackasses. The times always tries to smear sports. They did it to the Huskies, they did it to the Arena deal and now it seems like they are rearing their ugly and ridiculous head at us Hawk fans. I really hate that "paper" and the low standards it has.

I don't really care to read the "article" in its entirety, but I'm almost positive I know exactly what it says. I'll pass on that garbage.

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SUPERBOWL!!

Aros...seriously?? A family/group of 36 (+/- 18 niners/away fans) walks as a group together through a raucous nationally televised late game crowd for any team in the country and strangely is accosted by the locals??

OMG..they are "Washington natives, but a trip to Seattle will likely not happen again, even for non-sports events. We will not support a town whose fans behave that way."

Sorry, respect your opinion almost always, but this strikes me as the Amish riding the carriage into town and being offput by the angry sounds of muscle cars, smooth jazz and the "murderous and dissonant swells" of Radiohead and Jay-Z

EDIT!!!

The second half of what you posted is ludicrous stay home and watch it on your frat TV bull****..those people should be banned if not arrested on the spot...I feel like a complete subhuman for my original content...and now need to find someone to punch in their niner face to soothe my horrible untamed seafan aggression GRRRRR!!

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Wilson after ATL- " before I got back to the tunnel, walking off the field, I got so excited for the next opportunity"

"I have a lot of things built up in me that I'm ready to unleash on the field.....when it's time to explode, I will." - Percy

Not to make excuses but it sounds like that lady in the article handled everything extremely wrong and most likely brought some of it on herself. One word and she's yelling at everybody around her to shut up? Maybe a little bit thicker skin is needed. Or how about just keep on walking and ignorning it?

That said, i dont see the need for belittling anybody or cussing at anybody. Opposing fans are sports fans, they're football fans, they just happen to like a different team then you, odds are you have more in common then not. Its pretty stupid to hate somebody or be rude to somebody just because they're wearing a different jersey.

I brought my nephews to Seahawks games since they were in kindergarten. They've heard the cussing, they've seen Hawk fans yelling at rival fans, they've seen a few fights. And they're smart enough to know, because i'm man enough to tell them, that thats not how you act and thats now how you represent yourself.

Except for the fan in the article that said the Oregon Ducks suck... that dude needs to be popped in the mouth...

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There's obviously a line that can be crossed. I do not condone unprovoked verbal or physical assaults, but if I was going to attend a game at an opposing team stadium, I'd think twice about sporting the visiting team's jersey. Otherwise, understand that you now have a target on your back for the good, bad and/or ugly.

Bottom line, if you want to avoid any unwanted, unpleasant interactions, don't wear the opposing team's colors.

Seems pretty simple to me.

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"Doug Baldwin doesn't get separation, he gets a divorce." -NorthDallas40oz

Well said indeed! One more thing to add to this.... we can all be thankful to the out-of-towners (whether we like them or not) for paying for the stadium. Remember, it was the tax on hotel rooms, rental cars, and parking and such that created the funds to even build Safeco and Seahawks Stadium in the first place. If they weren't sure that there were going to be out-of-towners attending, then they wouldn't have had the funds to build those places.

I realize they aren't showing up at the game to do their own good deed and are all happy about paying the extra taxes for the stadium, but it is coming out of their pockets, and if lots of people don't come to the games.... the games stop selling out, stadium funds dwindle, and all of a sudden you have to deal with messes like teams wanting to look elsewhere. Is it going to happen soon? Of course not. But don't be a part of the problem and drive people away. They need to be in those seats. Those hotel rooms need to be full. Those rental cars need to be driven, etc. It is part of what makes the whole stadium situation work and kept the Hawks here in the first place. I'd rather the place were full of only Hawks fans too, but it's not going to be. That's a fact, especially now that the team is good again. So respect your opponent. Put the 12th man on the map as the classiest and noisiest fans on the map.

Nobody wants to go to Oakland. That place is a dump. You know why? Because the stadium is full of classless jerks, and that is why nobody will spend money on the place. They won't get a new stadium in Oakland ever. I say it is because of the rule my mom had when I was a kid. I couldn't get a new jacket, because I wouldn't even take care of my old one. She'd see it on the floor with footprints on it and say "that's why you don't have a new jacket this year buddy." So, take care of your stadium. Take care of the fans. Take responsibility for your section. Call the cops. Use the text service. Just don't sit by and watch chaos take over and scare kids and families. I remember going to a soccer game when my wife was pregnant and just thinking the whole time what a bad idea it was because things got a little testy. Remember... like Aros says, they are people with lives too. Some of them even have little lives on board. Take care of each other.

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R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
1/12/39 - 8/7/08

I call BS on this lady's story. Every 9er fan she encountered experienced the same treatment as her? Right. I've been to many games and was at the 9ers game and didn't see none of this in my area. I was in the so-called cheap seats. I was the drunkest and most rowdy guy in my section and by the end of the night all of the 9ers fans shook my hand and said "you're a good fan". We all talk trash, but I've yet to see any of these threats these people talk about. Maybe I've just been lucky, but the worst I've seen in Clink were the Raiders fans, and that was a preseason game.

AMEN BROTHA. Like I said before yes it's a shame when people get outta contral and take it to levels of hurting someone. That should NEVER happen. For real tho... Warning to all fans of all sports at all venues. IF YOU GO AND YOUR AN FAN OF THE OTHER TEAM. DON'T TAKE EVERYTHING SO SERIOUS AND TO HEART. EXPECTED TO BE MESSED WITH A LITTLE. IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN NO MATTER WHAT SPORT, CITY, TEAM, HIGHSCHOOL, COLLEGE, PROS.

I find it amazing those who defend this kind of crap and claim it doesn't happen. Simply amazing. It happens every game, and you guys continue to blow it off. Sometime soon we're going to have a situation like they had at Dodgers stadium and everybody is going to be up in arms and saying that this kind of crap should never happen in Seattle. Well, guess what... it already does. Luckily nobody has gotten beaten to that point yet. But Ken Hamlin got beaten nearly to death after a game at a club. What's the difference between what happened to him and what happened at Dodgers Stadium? The difference? Sports were involved. That's all. A rivalry.

Hamlin got hit in the head and suffered damage to his brain over a petty little argument fueled by alcohol. What happened in LA? Same thing, but it was at a sporting event. Seattle-ites have shown many times they are capable of such idiocy. So have all cities. On this current route, it's going to happen soon and it's going to be ugly, and you're all going to say that it was "just a couple of idiots" and blah blah blah. Then people stop attending games. Maybe Paul Allen says he doesn't have any interest in owning a team with a fanbase like that. Am I stretching it here? Maybe.... maybe not. I saw what he did with the Blazers after some stuff, and he didn't back down. He just said "enough" fired everybody including players and was ready to sell the entire team. I don't think he'd hesitate to do it again if things like this continue to happen. The whole tough guy act is tired.

You pay opera prices, you don't expect to go to an opera, but you expect people to be civil and for it not to feel like a scene out of Mad Max entering and exiting the stadium.

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R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
1/12/39 - 8/7/08

I dont see how this situation has any relevance at all with the question of fans behavior. Going to a blazer game is like going to church. I'd say its more cordial and polite then even going to a Mariners game. I've never seen a sporting event more perfect for bringing a kid to then Blazer games. The Blazers situation was because paul Allen allowed his GM and front office men to draft and bring in a bunch of criminal and low life players. It had nothing at all to do with sportsmanship or crowd behavior. It was more on Paul Allen himself then on anybody else.

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That article is a joke. Go to a Mariner game instead. Or how about dressing in normal clothing instead of being decked out in opposing teams gear. My dad is a Rams fan and we go every year to the home and away game (except this year) and one of us always dresses in civilian clothing. Me in ST Louis and him here in Seattle, never had a problem. I do agree if you see things happening, like people getting physical, you should step in and try to help if you can. People yelling at you though...gimme a break.

First story sounds 100% fabricated. (maybe an unhappy 49er fan trying to provide bad press for Seattle or a newspaper trying to get some headlines?)

How do you buy 32 tickets together anywhere in Clink Field?

If they did encounter the things they said they did, there is something greatly missing from the stories, IMO.

I have been a season ticket holder for 20+ years and other than very isolated incidents, the kind of things described in the first letter just don't happen, unprovoked, at Seahawks games in Seattle.

GO HAWKS!!!

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For those that choose to attend the temple "QWEST" bring your best and be LOUD.

The opposition has no hope!!

It's really a crapshoot. It's almost 70 thousand fans there, and some are gonna be unlucky enough to find that section with the way-too-drunk 20-something males. Every single game I have attended, the opposing fans have experienced, at the most, good natured ribbing, usually followed by conversations about their trip up here. The worst thing I ever witnessed was an EAGLES fan at the Kingdome chucking a FULL 32 ounce pop which smacked into the back of a female seahawks fans head. That fan was dealt with MOST rudely (deservedly so) by a swarm of angry Seahawks fans. He left on his own because he feared for his safety. But that is it. I think we are amongst the best fans around the league, but you just can't weed out the assholes in every single stadium/arena in every sport. I wish we could just shoot 'em, and eventually through attrition these asswipes would just dissapear, but the law frowns on that...damnit!

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A Blue Buzz-Saw has emerged from the Pacific Northwest. Prepare, NFL.

SEAHAWKS, 2014. Coming soon...

Who is defending this? I just said I go to plenty of games and have never witnessed any of this. I'm in the 300 level double letters where the bad crowd supposedly are. I've just never seen it...I've seen Seahawks fans yelling "Seahawks!" in opposing teams faces, but never any threats. I also saw 9ers fans walk into the bathroom, unprovoked, yelling "Who's got it better than us?!" And they expect no venom in return? Give me a freaking break. Of course, there's bad apples...but to believe in a group of 36 with 18 9ers and 18 Seahawks fans, they were constantly ridiculed and threatened? How do we know if it was no more than friendly banter? It's just this lady's words stating that every 9er fan she encountered faced the same type of threats as her and her family.

To clarify, I don't condone any of this behavior. I've never seen it, but if I did, I'd try to put a stop to it, because I hate those type of fans.

I didn't say you defended it did I? Feel free to re-read what I posted. I never mentioned you.

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R.I.P. Dad. I miss you. You will never be forgotten
1/12/39 - 8/7/08

I sometimes think the Seattle Times hates Seattle.

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This makes me ashamed.

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Sam Bradford is a game changer.

*He can change a win into a loss.
*He can change a loss into a win by getting injured.
*RedAlice is right.

I've said all that I need to say in this thread. I'm already disappointed by more than a few responses (regardless if they are LPC'ers). Hopefully it's not your friend, wife, girfriend, son, brother, father or mother that's being treated like a child molester for simply wearing the other team's jersey.

I'm done here.

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"We're about to be legendary." - Richard Sherman to the Seahawks sideline in the 3rd quarter of SBXLVIII

Have to agree with Todd, very disappointed in some of the responses here. This isn't just good natured ribbing or even trash talking. What happened to this lady was verbal harassment.

Seriously, what kind of POS grown man threatens a couple of 14 year old kids?

You can't call out the whole because of a few.

Funny its the Seattle Times though, they hate sports

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3elieve

Has anyone considered the fact that it's impossible to stop all instances of profanity-laced tirades to opposing fans at a football stadium?

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Sam Bradford is a game changer.

*He can change a win into a loss.
*He can change a loss into a win by getting injured.
*RedAlice is right.

well that's one side of the story? would like to hear the other.. if it's true then it's bulls**t..

but to say they'll never go back to seattle and support a city that has fans like that is a bit much, sounds like a some privaledged white collar snoot who needs to thicken the skin.. probably one of those ladies that dresses her poodle in sweaters.

fans are fans, there's bad apples in every bunch... if it was that bad, go get the police or stadium security.

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World Champs - Sounds good don't it

You didn't mention anybody

two preseasons ago A longtime female hawks fan who had severe back problems told me to sit down repeatedly and I refused, in fact I vehemently refused and cussed her and her husband out in front of her kids...

Of course that story should be told a little differently..but hey.. it gets more hits with the ^^^ content...

The not so short, boring and true version goes: A family bought tickets in a section where nobody sits down (5th row south endzone)..the kids LOVED it..the parents hated it.."how dare the people stand in front of us! WE payed $1000 for these seats"... I stood(with 3 rows standing in front of me), she complained(never once explaining her condition), he threatened me..I laughed..repeated this exercise 15x or so (at about 12x I told them to "shut the up and enjoy the game "in front of their teens/kids).....and then the husband went and found security...

Security came down and (to the husbands utter dismay) asked me " Sir, should we kick THEM out?"

My reply was "nah, It's all good, they're cool,they just don't understand how these seats work"

After that I actually had a normal conversation with the family and found out about the medical condition of the wife...I sat down for every play that didn't draw the "standing Ire" from then on...

They weren't bad people..but they sure as hell came off as the same kind of entitled "woe is me" brats from that first article...

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Wilson after ATL- " before I got back to the tunnel, walking off the field, I got so excited for the next opportunity"

"I have a lot of things built up in me that I'm ready to unleash on the field.....when it's time to explode, I will." - Percy

I attended a couple games in 2007 and didn't return until just this season. I was stunned by the ocean of profanity and negativity for a first place 10-6 team. I know that if you fill a stadium with 67,000 people a few will have issues, but it didn't feel like just a few in 2007.

Quite frankly, the winning brings out the reactionary wife-beater types in droves, or at least exposes them for what they are- degenerates. It would not sadden me one bit to see some of those "fans" spending a night in a jail cell.

Sadly I am not surprised at all by Sarah Brown's story- although I do find it a little horrifying. If it were me, I probably would have gotten my family out of there even sooner than she did.

I thought Rick Turner's essay was spot on. Moderation: it's in rare supply these days. Bench Wilson! Carroll's on the hot seat! The Seahawks are mediocre! Cut Thurmond!

Reading it, it almost sounded as if he was talking about .net directly. I mean I get that this place tends to be reactionary, but this year it's been more knee-jerk than most.

Some of us would not be harrassed based on our size and or looks, pretty much a bunch of punk ass bastards that go after women and kids to show how tough a fan they are to begin with.

That being said if we promote a punk bad ass attitude with a team then that is what immature fans will emmulate I think. I don't see that with the Seahawks, I did with the Blazers to a degree. We are a nasty defense and yes Sherman talks but isn't thuggish.

Again some people don't know the difference between the two.

It's shameful that some condone this, I would wonder if they are part of the crowd that is being talked about in the article.

Jumping a guy and kicking and beating him in the concourse and being cheered on? I wonder how many pussified Seattlelites were there calling for a end to pro sports do to violence afterwards to the Seattle City Council rather then step up and say it was wrong or go and get a cop or security or even all three given there must have been hundreds around it.

Much of this sounds like High School crap from people that hve not grown up and think being tough means being a news story from another city. Raider fans have a rep, the San Francisco issues down their may have had some relevance as well.

Because of the fans in those cities that the NFL is doing stuff with to insure a better fan experience. Do we want them controlling our security and setting standards or our stadium as well. Maybe the TSA can search everyone and no posters, banners, or any back packs or seating pads in case you might use it as a weapon. Sobriety tests at the entrances if you appear to have had a drink etc. Many of these ideas ahve come up with how to control crowds. Maybe just cut off all consumption of alcohal in the building period.

The fans dictate what the reaction and what questions will be raised.

Remember that NBA Arena that people wanted, this is the best way to de rail support for it also.

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To Be P/C or Not P/C That is the Question..........Seahawks kick Ass !!!!
Used to be an Alumni till they pulled a USC on me...
.Net official Clueless, Dumbass, Douche, Simpleton, CensoredTard , Idiot, member of the 38 club.

"My son’s friend was wearing an Oregon Ducks rain jacket".

Friends don't let friends wear Oregon Ducks rain jackets.

But hey, at least we are classier than Jets fans (this never gets old):

Let us just be the best football team, with the classiest fans in the country. Please, that is who we are. Save your rage for cheering on the fantastic product on the field.

Thanks,
Guy that reads and never posts.

Nobody is suggesting that the behavior cited in the article should be condoned or tolerated. However, the question being implicitly debated in this thread is whether this is representative of widespread misbehavior on the part of fans. The Seattle Times article provides no support to that line of reasoning because the article suffers from Selection Bias.

There are three reasons why the story provided by the Times cannot be treated as a representative sample.

1. Only fans who have relatively poor experiences are motivated to write letters of complain to newspapers.
2. Of those fans, many are tempted to exaggerate the situation some amount to make it seem more letter worthy.
3. Newspapers do not randomly select experiences to report on because moderate outcomes are not interesting. The media deals in extremes because that is what they deem "newsworthy".

All we know based on the letter is that in the very most extreme case that the Times was able to report, a couple fans may have showed poor sportsmanship on Sunday out of a pool of 70,000 fans. Extrapolating the extreme case to the rest of the stadium is indefensible and is only done by the Times to create a story. That is no reason for us to blow it out of proportion here.

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"Check out my 2012 NFL Draft Grades. I just gave the worst grade ever to Seattle." - WalterFootball.com

Best take on this yet.

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Bravo, sir! Well done!

Great post, AgentDib. Best take on this so far. Bravo.

Sounds awful, if true.


And those kids also only had jerseys to wear in 40 degree pouring down rain. You'd think they'd have worn a coat or something too.

Football is a passionate sport. We ALL get crazy at times, it is just that some people at certain times take it way too far.

Hell in 2009 a large group of us from this very site went to SF for the game (about 30 or so). A few of us are on the burly/muscular size, and we were still hounded, yelled at and one of us even had a constant barrage of french fries thrown at us.

If you go into an opposing stadium with gear from that opposing team on, you should expect some sort of harassment. Someone will take it further than others. It will always happen in any city, and stadium.

That does not make it right/wrong. If it becomes violent, then get involved, or get the hell out of there.

I left that game early as I didn't like the vibe and we were getting killed on the field. But nobody messed with me.

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It's simple really - don't wear 49ers jersey's at Century Link.

Don't draw attention to yourself.

I don't agree with the way some Seahawks fans get a bit out of control down there, but here is the thing.

It's going to happen. If you are smart what you will do is not wear the visiting teams colors when you go to a Seahawks game.

Look at it this way, I'm in the Navy, when I need to go to the airport, I don't wear a t-shirt that says "Property of US Navy" all over it. It makes me think of girls that dress slutty and then complain about getting hit on. It's actually pretty dumb if you really think about it. If her family didn't come walking into the stadium wearing SF gear like a bunch of ignorant nerds, they wouldn't have even taken any verbal abuse at all. You go to the Hawks game in the visitors gear, your asking for it in my opinion.

We're flippen tame compared to other stadiums I've been to on the road. I was treated like garbage at Chicago, Cleveland and San Fran. Niners fans are psycho, and the stadium is in the ghetto. I think it sucks that a few drink people can ruin someone's experience, but no way in hell is the fanbase NEAR the level of some other cities out there. And for the record, I saw a LOT of Niners fans talking smack before the game, and starting fights in the 4th quarter.

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60 percent of the time..........it works........every time

someone should call CPS on Mrs. Brown. She lives in Washington and let her kid be a Niners fan?? There is the real crime.

sad story about their game experience though.

On Occidental, smack talking Niner fans were the norm rather than the exception.

Going all of the way back to the original post, I think the point that needs to be reiterated is that worn out
"If you see something, say something." Or, at least, flash a "Don't be a Harbaugh" sign on the stadium screen once in a while.

Well, I had an incident on Saturday, during the day. I was taking my daily walk down past the stadium (ritual until we are done this year), and I was minding my own business, taking a pic of the stadium. I hear behind me "Your team is a joke, you have no shot tomorrow night!" It was 3 big Niner fans who had nothing better to do than get up in my grill and talk smack. I just grinned and walked away, the smell of their fear was enough for me. Not to mention, 3 big psycho Niners fans, not worth it.

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60 percent of the time..........it works........every time