Pass Interference and replay

HawkRiderFan · Jan 22, 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IjV67DiAXI

Watch this video from the 1:51:00 mark and watch for about 2 min.

Uncle Si · Jan 22, 2019

TwistedHusky":2ol8rldd said:
Si,

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck?

Probably a duck.

So let me tell you a story. It was the NBA playoffs (pretty sure it was Suns vs Spurs) and there were a number of bad calls in that game. I was up in arms about it because it feels rigged. Anyway the New York Times reporter called and did an article on how this one felt steered. They interviewed me, published the article but nothing else came off it.

Except....

Years later an NBA ref plead guilty to unevenly calling games to feed his gambling habit and to pay back organized crime. It turns out we weren't crazy after all.

The thing about people is they will push boundaries, and they will take advantage until the risk gets too great. We have already seen the sheer sums of money that NFL wins drive. You are really saying they wouldn't do it? They have a financial incentive. They have people enabling them when blatantly caught. There are a number of stakeholders that benefit directly from steered outcomes. None of them would be tempted?

The NFL itself benefits from certain outcomes. They wouldn't either? People lie, steal, and cheat when the benefit outweighs the risk. I see no reason the NFL would be different. Nor the refs themselves. And we have seen enough games that sure look like a pattern of behavior that is getting more egregious as they realize people will let it slide.

There have been two major gambling scandals in American professional sports over 125 years and literally tens of thousands of matches.

2...

And one was a ref.

One ref.

One guy.

In tens of thousands of matches.

And i cant even tell you how irrelevant your story is to both this one and even the nba scandal (did Donahue ref that game?)

So... nothing like a duck.

Just a shitty referee.

Ill leave you to the conspiracy theory. One day you may be right and it was all for naught... but for now I'll just believe the moments are bigger than the humans sometimes.. refs just like players.

Believing otherwise leaves no room for watching.. which you do and comment on often

So which is it? RW and PC are bad mix of QB and coach... or the NFL is steering it that way?

seahawkfreak · Jan 22, 2019

Just saying the league has no interest in reviewing non call pass interferences. I could care less what they do with it.

Honestly I wish they would get rid of spot foul pass interference calls. One of the good college rules and it would get rid of the shit that A Rod does.

chris98251 · Jan 22, 2019

Uncle Si":vt4wpmz2 said:
TwistedHusky":vt4wpmz2 said:

Si,

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck?

Probably a duck.

So let me tell you a story. It was the NBA playoffs (pretty sure it was Suns vs Spurs) and there were a number of bad calls in that game. I was up in arms about it because it feels rigged. Anyway the New York Times reporter called and did an article on how this one felt steered. They interviewed me, published the article but nothing else came off it.

Except....

Years later an NBA ref plead guilty to unevenly calling games to feed his gambling habit and to pay back organized crime. It turns out we weren't crazy after all.

The thing about people is they will push boundaries, and they will take advantage until the risk gets too great. We have already seen the sheer sums of money that NFL wins drive. You are really saying they wouldn't do it? They have a financial incentive. They have people enabling them when blatantly caught. There are a number of stakeholders that benefit directly from steered outcomes. None of them would be tempted?

The NFL itself benefits from certain outcomes. They wouldn't either? People lie, steal, and cheat when the benefit outweighs the risk. I see no reason the NFL would be different. Nor the refs themselves. And we have seen enough games that sure look like a pattern of behavior that is getting more egregious as they realize people will let it slide.

Click to expand...

There have been two major gambling scandals in American professional sports over 125 years and literally tens of thousands of matches.

2...

And one was a ref.

One ref.

One guy.

In tens of thousands of matches.

And i cant even tell you how irrelevant your story is to both this one and even the nba scandal (did Donahue ref that game?)

So... nothing like a duck.

Just a shitty referee.

Ill leave you to the conspiracy theory. One day you may be right and it was all for naught... but for now I'll just believe the moments are bigger than the humans sometimes.. refs just like players.

Believing otherwise leaves no room for watching.. which you do and comment on often

So which is it? RW and PC are bad mix of QB and coach... or the NFL is steering it that way?

Black Sox and numuorus Horseracing and Boxing fixing over the years.

Uncle Si · Jan 23, 2019

Black Sox and Tim Donahue is what i was referring to. And was looking at the big 5 team sports as steering team games is quite difficult

Ozzy · Jan 23, 2019

I still think an eye in the sky ref or someone at a different location or whatever doesn't really matter, could buzz in and tell them to huddle up and get it right. We would never even need to know where it came from or who called for it but you could have fixed that play in 15 seconds and none of us would know any better. Such a simple fix that its almost obvious they don't really care. Clayton alluded to the fact that they may have something like that logistically place with a boss being able to talk to them in real time. If that's the case then why didn't the boss say hey morons, stop and get this right.

I'm not opposed to being able to review or most of the other options because its better than letting a team lose because of officiating but I just don't think its even needed. We knew at home within seconds that it was a horribly missed call. If another official has the same technology available he could have and should have stepped in and fixed it. People are over complicating this imo.

therealjohncarlson · Jan 23, 2019

I have serious reservations on how something as utterly subjective as PI would be able to be reviewed fairly league wide by different refs. When you boil PI down to its simplest form it seems to me like it would be a bit like people talk about offensive holding, there's pretty much holding on every play, it's just a matter of if it's called and/or seen by the refs.

Like for example, a defender touches the receivers arm for a second before the ball gets there as they're jockeying for position. Would a ref be forced to call that PI in it's purest form if he's looking at it frame by frame on a replay? And this is just on a one case basis.. you guys really have faith that different refs have the capability to enforce this kind of wildly subjective replay system on a league wide basis?

IMO I think it would be opening an even bigger can of worms. I agree with posters here saying the way you dial it back is increase accountability. Work out a deal with the union that if a pattern is established of bad calls refs need to be let go or given more instruction before they resume duties.

SoulfishHawk · Jan 24, 2019

The Refs CHOSE to ignore it. Strange coincidence that their precious LA team, with a new stadium on the way is magically in the Super Bowl. Not a conspiracy at all, just reality that they chose to ignore the most obvious call in playoff history. Wasn't even close, and the Saints should be playing next Sunday.

Ambrose83 · Jan 24, 2019

SoulfishHawk":2cumiesk said:
The Refs CHOSE to ignore it. Strange coincidence that their precious LA team, with a new stadium on the way is magically in the Super Bowl. Not a conspiracy at all, just reality that they chose to ignore the most obvious call in playoff history. Wasn't even close, and the Saints should be playing next Sunday.

Just stop.... They had the ball first in ot man.... That missed call didn't lose then,the game... Settling for field goals in the first half, rushing for 50 yards, turning the ball over AND not scoring in OT lost that game ... Not one call . good lord .

HawkFreak · Jan 24, 2019

Ambrose83":3jyai8sp said:
Just stop.... They had the ball first in ot man.... That missed call didn't lose then,the game... Settling for field goals in the first half, rushing for 50 yards, turning the ball over AND not scoring in OT lost that game ... Not one call . good lord .

Haha. C'mon. Sure - any team during any game can and should put themselves in position to win decidingly prior to the the end of the 4th quarter. But the reality is....very often the games don't play out that way.

And the reality is that this missed play did indeed decide the game. Penalty = 1st down and Saints win. No penalty = give the Rams another shot that they didn't deserve at the end of the game.

The Rams didn't put away the game like they "should have" prior to the closing minutes of the game, but they were given a reprieve because of this egregious call.

Uncle Si · Jan 24, 2019

Ambrose83":372xr6mf said:
SoulfishHawk":372xr6mf said:

The Refs CHOSE to ignore it. Strange coincidence that their precious LA team, with a new stadium on the way is magically in the Super Bowl. Not a conspiracy at all, just reality that they chose to ignore the most obvious call in playoff history. Wasn't even close, and the Saints should be playing next Sunday.

Click to expand...

Just stop.... They had the ball first in ot man.... That missed call didn't lose then,the game... Settling for field goals in the first half, rushing for 50 yards, turning the ball over AND not scoring in OT lost that game ... Not one call . good lord .

Throughout a game you can look at win probability.

If Saints get the call their win probability is near 99%. At 4th an 10 it was less than 70. After the field goal it rose to 77.

At OT kickoff it was 60.

Thats how you can view the importance of that decision.

Im not into conspiracies and i certainly understand your points. However, the ref error did greatly impsct the Saints

Seymour · Jan 24, 2019

Ambrose83":2susxsk2 said:
SoulfishHawk":2susxsk2 said:

The Refs CHOSE to ignore it. Strange coincidence that their precious LA team, with a new stadium on the way is magically in the Super Bowl. Not a conspiracy at all, just reality that they chose to ignore the most obvious call in playoff history. Wasn't even close, and the Saints should be playing next Sunday.

Click to expand...

Just stop.... They had the ball first in ot man.... That missed call didn't lose then,the game... Settling for field goals in the first half, rushing for 50 yards, turning the ball over AND not scoring in OT lost that game ... Not one call . good lord .

You should just stop. That call sure as there will be rain in Seattle in December did cost the Saints the game. Make the OBVIOUS call and none of that other BS even has to happen. :177692:

SoulfishHawk · Jan 24, 2019

No, I won't just stop. If you want to ignore the facts, go for it. They make that obvious call, the Saints are in the Super Bowl. End of story

DomeHawk · Jan 24, 2019

Ambrose83":1kgh078h said:
SoulfishHawk":1kgh078h said:

The Refs CHOSE to ignore it. Strange coincidence that their precious LA team, with a new stadium on the way is magically in the Super Bowl. Not a conspiracy at all, just reality that they chose to ignore the most obvious call in playoff history. Wasn't even close, and the Saints should be playing next Sunday.

Click to expand...

Just stop.... They had the ball first in ot man.... That missed call didn't lose then,the game... Settling for field goals in the first half, rushing for 50 yards, turning the ball over AND not scoring in OT lost that game ... Not one call . good lord .

Totally perplexing how some people cannot admit the obvious.

It's the world we live in now.

Sgt. Largent · Jan 24, 2019

DomeHawk":2mv8gdxi said:
Ambrose83":2mv8gdxi said:

SoulfishHawk":2mv8gdxi said:

The Refs CHOSE to ignore it. Strange coincidence that their precious LA team, with a new stadium on the way is magically in the Super Bowl. Not a conspiracy at all, just reality that they chose to ignore the most obvious call in playoff history. Wasn't even close, and the Saints should be playing next Sunday.

Click to expand...

Just stop.... They had the ball first in ot man.... That missed call didn't lose then,the game... Settling for field goals in the first half, rushing for 50 yards, turning the ball over AND not scoring in OT lost that game ... Not one call . good lord .

Click to expand...

Totally perplexing how some people cannot admit the obvious.

It's the world we live in now.

You tinfoil hat dudes still haven't answered my question....................if you think sports is fixed, or keep puking up these insane conspiracy theories, why do you watch and invest your time and emotion in sports?

Cause it makes no sense. If the sport is corrupt and the outcomes are pre-determined by nefarious pre-determined outcomes, why watch?

HawkGA · Jan 24, 2019

therealjohncarlson":3jljh4lq said:
I have serious reservations on how something as utterly subjective as PI would be able to be reviewed fairly league wide by different refs. When you boil PI down to its simplest form it seems to me like it would be a bit like people talk about offensive holding, there's pretty much holding on every play, it's just a matter of if it's called and/or seen by the refs.

Like for example, a defender touches the receivers arm for a second before the ball gets there as they're jockeying for position. Would a ref be forced to call that PI in it's purest form if he's looking at it frame by frame on a replay? And this is just on a one case basis.. you guys really have faith that different refs have the capability to enforce this kind of wildly subjective replay system on a league wide basis?

IMO I think it would be opening an even bigger can of worms. I agree with posters here saying the way you dial it back is increase accountability. Work out a deal with the union that if a pattern is established of bad calls refs need to be let go or given more instruction before they resume duties.

I agree with this. It'd end up being a lot like the tuck rule played out. Per the tuck rule, that call in NE's favor was the right call. The problem is with reply you basically had to hunt for evidence to get the call you wanted. That will happen all the time.

And imagine the how Erin Rodgers would be under such a system. Just throw the ball up, then turn to replay to look for some sort of contact between the DB and the WR. I mean, it's done a lot now but now you have to rely on a ref to call it. Think about a ref (or somebody else) analyzing frame by frame. It'd be horrible.

SoulfishHawk · Jan 24, 2019

Didn't say it was fixed. But this game was GIVEN to the Rams on the worst non call we have ever seen. It's not a conspiracy or a fix, it's just the call gave the Rams a Super Bowl. I'd be embarrassed if I was a Rams fan.

Sgt. Largent · Jan 24, 2019

SoulfishHawk":efnrrjw4 said:
Didn't say it was fixed. But this game was GIVEN to the Rams on the worst non call we have ever seen. It's not a conspiracy or a fix, it's just the call gave the Rams a Super Bowl. I'd be embarrassed if I was a Rams fan.

If you're saying the refs "chose" to ignore it, that means you think it was on purpose, as in intentionally didn't call it to benefit the Rams.

Same thing.

Again, answer my question. If you think the league wants certain teams to win, or coach up the refs to call games a certain way, why watch? It's all a sham right, so why waste your time?

SoulfishHawk · Jan 24, 2019

Well, they saw it, so yes they chose to ignore it. Stevie Wonder could have made that call. Feel free to ignore it and/or stick up for the Rams. They don't deserve to be there. You can't prove that they didn't choose to ignore it. Nobody can prove it, agree to disagree.

KiwiHawk · Jan 24, 2019

I hate seeing people arguing against penalty review on the basis that it will stop the game all the time. Nothing in any of the conversation about penalty review says coaches will get more uses of the red flag. They still get 2 challenges, and a bonus one if the other two are upheld. That's it. They won't be throwing the flag on holds on Gronkowski every play because they can't.

Yet Steve DelVecchio uses it as an argument against referees making the right call. He now has the credibility of a turnip. Congratulations, Steve DelVecchio for being an asshat. What a stupid article.

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