You Decide: Who To Root For On My Summer Vacation

[Popeyejones]

:lol: :lol: :lol: well played.

Forgot about this thread.

I'm proud to announce I'm the first new Bills fan this decade.

Deciding factor is I like Tyrod, and get all the games locally.

One doesn't get to pick a new team often (if ever) though, so I'm also open to jumping ship and will be watching Jags and Titans every week too.

I'll still be watching and following the 9ers, but H2H I'm going Bills until Kelly is gone/further notice.

:th2thumbs:

 

[mrt144]

I don't quite get this. I know people have "2nd" favorite teams and all that. I've tried, at times. I can root for teams when the Seahawks are not playing, but not with the passion I have for my team.

The team is bigger than any one guy. Whether you don't like the Owner, GM, any of the coaches, a certain player... we all perhaps have that in common at times. But, if it's your team... it's your team. Meaning, you couldn't quit them if you tried. (I know you're calling it a "vacation" - lol - which is perhaps somewhat comprehensible.) But, if you can root for another team on what you're calling a vacation, I sort of wonder how you define being a fan. (I know there's various opinions on all this even here on this board.)

Could pick any online definition of a fan.
A fan, or fanatic, sometimes also called aficionado or supporter, is a person who is enthusiastically devoted to something or somebody, such as a band, a sports team, a genre, a book, a movie or an entertainer. Collectively, the fans of a particular object or person constitute its fanbase or fandom.

Maybe there should be a "loyal" fan definition? The key term seems to be "devoted" - yeah, devoted until....

I really mean no disrespect here to you, Popeye. I'm just having more of an issue with the principle of the thing, while understanding your disgust.

I guess there's no standard definition of a fan. But, in my book... are you a 49ers fan or not? If so, the Chip Kelly years should not be enough to ruin that. Coaches and players come and go (except those who are immortalized), but fans are the constant. unno:

I've thought about loyalty to teams throughout the years and in spite of front office failure to produce winners and I've arrived at this conclusion:

If a team spends a decade or more languishing and losing with little prospective improvement because of the ownership itself, there is not a lot of emotional payoff for that loyalty and the loyalty is not justified or rewarded by the team, only other fans. I think in the case of teams like the Browns, Lions, Jacksonville, etc etc you'd have to be a masochist and revel in the suckage to remain loyal. Riding through thick and thin is only appreciated by other people who made the same choice as you and you have to be outwardly loyal to receive that emotional validation.

Secondly, I totally believe in being a fan of team narrative. There is something beyond just winning the SB for Seahawks fans - the journey from our 2005 SB appearance to almost going off the cliff to the major changes in the FO and personnel that lead to our SB win...not to mention the in game heroics on our way there - Beastquake, Sherman's pick 6 of Schaub, The Tampa Bay comeback, The NFCCG against the Niners, the NFCCG against the Packers, the most emotionally devestating SB loss ever. These events are not matched in magnitude by many competitive teams like the Bengals, but they're completely unfathomable to the likes of Lions or Browns fans. In the case of the Niners, the narrative is a dark comedy of errors. I think sometimes it's okay to put a book down if the story goes off the rails and find a new one to read.

Third, when adversity sets in, whoever is left might not be fans you want to associate with. If I were a Niners fan now I wouldn't be having fun talking with other Niners fans over the team because it's such a mess. The only unifying thought is "Screw Jed York". I think the one aspect of a team on the slide that is tough to stomach is the the constant "Good riddance, we didn't need them anyway". It's like being a spurned lover and I just wouldn't find any joy being around a bunch of spurned lovers.

Fourth, you really need to evaluate why you're a fan in the first place. What do you get out of dedicating 3-4 hours of your time to following the game and the countless hours jawboning about it? For me, being a Seahawks fan isn't just about the team itself and the players and coaches, it's about seeing the city rally around the team and the collective excitement and high fives. It's about getting together with friends and family and sharing the heights of winning and the disappointment of loss. There's also a fundamental appreciation of the strategic elements and breaking those down but that's team agnostic. I watched way more Eagles football than I care to admit because I was fascinated by Chip Kelly systematically dismantling the team. I also watched more Chiefs games than I expected because I wanted to see what an inferior Seahawks team looked like.

Fifth, The more transparent it becomes that this is a business with profit not being influenced by winning to any appreciable degree, it lessens the hope you have for the future of the team. Perennial bottom feeders don't have any internal incentive to improve and it's obvious. I'm more loyal to my high school's and college's teams (okay, I went to a small liberal arts college that had ultimate frisbee) than I am to professional teams because there is way more alignment between the team and the fan in goals - emotional payoff of victory.

My background is I grew up in the Bay Area for the formative years of my life, watched and rooted for the Niners up until I moved to Seattle at 19. For a few years my life was so topsy turvy that I didn't really follow the NFL or Niners. Then when I met my wife, a local, there was no looking back, I was in for the Seahawks. And one of the reasons is it was no fun being an outsider who couldn't share in the happiness of their rise - I am constantly an antagonist in almost every other aspect my life and for once it was a lot more fun being part of the group than not and the downside was non existent - The Niners were still crappy and my childhood happiness were firmly in the fond and distant memories part of my brain, and I had no Niners fans to chide me for disloyalty. Also, marriage is more important than fandom and we look great together in our robber baron pete t shirts

I think the part of why I don't see a point to unwavering loyalty is I've never suffered for having flexible loyalty. Nay, I've been rewarded a ton for it. And when the stakes are a game, it's not like it a huge reflection on my character either.

 

[Sports Hernia]

:lol: :lol: :lol: well played.

Forgot about this thread.

I'm proud to announce I'm the first new Bills fan this decade.

Deciding factor is I like Tyrod, and get all the games locally.

One doesn't get to pick a new team often (if ever) though, so I'm also open to jumping ship and will be watching Jags and Titans every week too.

I'll still be watching and following the 9ers, but H2H I'm going Bills until Kelly is gone/further notice.

:th2thumbs:

You should put a Bills logo in your avatar to show your commitment to your new team. 8)
Congrats!

 

[Sports Hernia]

For me team loyalty is deep rooted. I've liked the local teams as a kid. The Hawks started when I was 7 and the Mariners when I was 8. .....and the Sonics started before as I was born. How much financially I support the teams however matters on their "will to win" on the field.

The Hawks have gotten a lot of money from me over the years because of their true commitment to winning during the Paul Allen years.

The Howard Lincoln "ball park experience" over "winning on the field" philosophy and the Mariners trying to block the Sonics/NHL arena deal has me spending almost nothing Mariners wise. I do watch a ton of games on TV but outside of that they don't get my money for the most part.

 

[Subzero717]

You have real problems if you think Davis is a worse owner than York. Davis readily admits he doesnt know what he doesnt know. He could have fired Mckenzie and didnt. York ran out Harbaugh.

 

[TeamoftheCentury]

I don't quite get this. I know people have "2nd" favorite teams and all that. I've tried, at times. I can root for teams when the Seahawks are not playing, but not with the passion I have for my team.

The team is bigger than any one guy. Whether you don't like the Owner, GM, any of the coaches, a certain player... we all perhaps have that in common at times. But, if it's your team... it's your team. Meaning, you couldn't quit them if you tried. (I know you're calling it a "vacation" - lol - which is perhaps somewhat comprehensible.) But, if you can root for another team on what you're calling a vacation, I sort of wonder how you define being a fan. (I know there's various opinions on all this even here on this board.)

Could pick any online definition of a fan.
A fan, or fanatic, sometimes also called aficionado or supporter, is a person who is enthusiastically devoted to something or somebody, such as a band, a sports team, a genre, a book, a movie or an entertainer. Collectively, the fans of a particular object or person constitute its fanbase or fandom.

Maybe there should be a "loyal" fan definition? The key term seems to be "devoted" - yeah, devoted until....

I really mean no disrespect here to you, Popeye. I'm just having more of an issue with the principle of the thing, while understanding your disgust.

I guess there's no standard definition of a fan. But, in my book... are you a 49ers fan or not? If so, the Chip Kelly years should not be enough to ruin that. Coaches and players come and go (except those who are immortalized), but fans are the constant. unno:

I've thought about loyalty to teams throughout the years and in spite of front office failure to produce winners and I've arrived at this conclusion:

If a team spends a decade or more languishing and losing with little prospective improvement because of the ownership itself, there is not a lot of emotional payoff for that loyalty and the loyalty is not justified or rewarded by the team, only other fans. I think in the case of teams like the Browns, Lions, Jacksonville, etc etc you'd have to be a masochist and revel in the suckage to remain loyal. Riding through thick and thin is only appreciated by other people who made the same choice as you and you have to be outwardly loyal to receive that emotional validation.

Secondly, I totally believe in being a fan of team narrative. There is something beyond just winning the SB for Seahawks fans - the journey from our 2005 SB appearance to almost going off the cliff to the major changes in the FO and personnel that lead to our SB win...not to mention the in game heroics on our way there - Beastquake, Sherman's pick 6 of Schaub, The Tampa Bay comeback, The NFCCG against the Niners, the NFCCG against the Packers, the most emotionally devestating SB loss ever. These events are not matched in magnitude by many competitive teams like the Bengals, but they're completely unfathomable to the likes of Lions or Browns fans. In the case of the Niners, the narrative is a dark comedy of errors. I think sometimes it's okay to put a book down if the story goes off the rails and find a new one to read.

Third, when adversity sets in, whoever is left might not be fans you want to associate with. If I were a Niners fan now I wouldn't be having fun talking with other Niners fans over the team because it's such a mess. The only unifying thought is "Screw Jed York". I think the one aspect of a team on the slide that is tough to stomach is the the constant "Good riddance, we didn't need them anyway". It's like being a spurned lover and I just wouldn't find any joy being around a bunch of spurned lovers.

Fourth, you really need to evaluate why you're a fan in the first place. What do you get out of dedicating 3-4 hours of your time to following the game and the countless hours jawboning about it? For me, being a Seahawks fan isn't just about the team itself and the players and coaches, it's about seeing the city rally around the team and the collective excitement and high fives. It's about getting together with friends and family and sharing the heights of winning and the disappointment of loss. There's also a fundamental appreciation of the strategic elements and breaking those down but that's team agnostic. I watched way more Eagles football than I care to admit because I was fascinated by Chip Kelly systematically dismantling the team. I also watched more Chiefs games than I expected because I wanted to see what an inferior Seahawks team looked like.

Fifth, The more transparent it becomes that this is a business with profit not being influenced by winning to any appreciable degree, it lessens the hope you have for the future of the team. Perennial bottom feeders don't have any internal incentive to improve and it's obvious. I'm more loyal to my high school's and college's teams (okay, I went to a small liberal arts college that had ultimate frisbee) than I am to professional teams because there is way more alignment between the team and the fan in goals - emotional payoff of victory.

My background is I grew up in the Bay Area for the formative years of my life, watched and rooted for the Niners up until I moved to Seattle at 19. For a few years my life was so topsy turvy that I didn't really follow the NFL or Niners. Then when I met my wife, a local, there was no looking back, I was in for the Seahawks. And one of the reasons is it was no fun being an outsider who couldn't share in the happiness of their rise - I am constantly an antagonist in almost every other aspect my life and for once it was a lot more fun being part of the group than not and the downside was non existent - The Niners were still crappy and my childhood happiness were firmly in the fond and distant memories part of my brain, and I had no Niners fans to chide me for disloyalty. Also, marriage is more important than fandom and we look great together in our robber baron pete t shirts

I think the part of why I don't see a point to unwavering loyalty is I've never suffered for having flexible loyalty. Nay, I've been rewarded a ton for it. And when the stakes are a game, it's not like it a huge reflection on my character either.

Thanks. I'll take a stab at an appropriate response. Sounds like you essentially disagree with me and that's fine. My comments certainly ran the risk of opening up another can of worms. While I can see some of your points or at least appreciate your opinion and the thought it took to write all this, I will stand by my words.

I can grant, to some degree, that we all have a different "fan" experience. But, what I was saying was that I think there's a difference between a "loyal" fan and a fan for a convenient time. I'm not calling that a bandwagon fan (as I don't really like that term as it just gets thrown at someone if they don't meet one's criteria), but it could be argued to be the case. I won't be taking up that argument. Yeah, I'm not saying that how you decide to follow sports teams reflects on your character, but it certainly could be an indicator in your life one might be wise to recognize about themselves so it doesn't show up in the more important aspects of life.

I can affirm that marriage is more important than fandom. (Not even in the same Category - incomparable, really.) But, for the sake of making a point... while I don't actually chide people for wavering or picking a "flavor of the month" team, I just don't get it. Probably in part to my personal experience. I grew up rooting relentlessly for the Hawks, buying draft guides before there was such thing as the internet, Training camps out in Cheney, WA, defending them as a fan as early as elementary school/ junior high in the late 70's / early 80's - to those who would just pick a winning team. "Everyone loves a winner." I took a lot of crap from others who jumped on the 49ers, Raiders, Steelers, Cowboys, etc. bandwagons. Probably because I felt like I went through the ringer with the Seahawks, they are such a passion for me. They are not a priority like family. But, they are important to me.

I'm a principled person. I think while marriage and fandom are incomparable, there can be a correlation in ones' life. I'll use that as an example since you brought it up in comparison. If one says they are a "loyal" fan, but gets tired of the team for whatever reason(s) and it would serve them to just go out and get a new one, I think that actually can say a lot. So, it's not only true that teams look at their players with the "what have you done for me lately" mentality, but also some who define themselves as a sort of fan also hold to this. If the team isn't doing anything for me, the logic goes, I'm perfectly justified in letting go of them.

Yeah, one can read too much into it (and, other than to make my points, I'm doing that here - lol), but if there are patterns in one's life ("What's in it for me"), then it's not out of the realm of possibility this could make it reasonable to a man to decide one day that his old model wife isn't as shiny as when she was new and decides to trade her in for a new one. Why not? If ones philosophy in life is built ultimately upon what you desire and you miss out on giving of yourself to something more transcendent / part of something bigger than just yourself, your needs... then one is being perfectly consistent with how they make decisions in the small things which can also condition them to be more inclined to make a similar type of move with the weightier things of life.

This is no accusation to you. I'm just speaking about how what plays in the theater of our minds shapes the habits of our heart. Thus, we make decisions accordingly. So, one who develops this sort of pattern might be more susceptible to trading in more valuable things in life that actually do matter beyond the entertainment of following a sports team.

[I don't think your book analogy really works. You're not buying tickets to read this book 8 or so times a year. You're not buying merchandise to wear that promotes it. Books are important, but seems like apples and oranges here. Just like marriage and fandom. But, I see the correlation your trying to make. But, I would argue trying a book out to see if it's worth reading doesn't have much to do with the definition of a fan.]

All that's pretty heavy and I didn't really mean to get into it deep like that. But, seems like your response got much more philosophical than just how a textbook definition of a "loyal fan" perhaps ought to be towards his/her team. So, I commented more in that vein. I think you taking the time to write so much wasn't to try to prove me wrong, but to share your perspective with not only me, but for the board and perhaps have some agree more with you than me. That's fine.

We're probably approaching the point of getting the attention of the word count police. :lol:

For me... I'm a Seahawks fan. I can be no other.

 

[mrt144]

I dont disagree with what you wrote in a lot of parts since it's more of a personal statement of how you approach the fandom of the Seahawks and any team for that matter. I think there's a lot of similar underlying wants and desires and mechanisms to satisfy them between both of us. I think where you and I depart is just on the how much the loyalty is worth it at times and of course neither of us can answer the OP in that regard.

While books and sports are apples and oranges I had a huge perspective shift after SB49. These games are nominally entertainment events that we choose to emotionally invest in for the narrative they provide and we can relate with other fans. That the events are unscripted doesn't mean it can't be story or narrative (okay, the execution is unscripted, I suppose Bevell does something on the sidelines other than advise RW on what he did wrong on any given play) but I view every season as a chapter in the story of the team now. Some teams write awful stories for their fans and the fans can't get out of the way of them. Other teams write great stories fairly often. If one team is driving you to the point of swearing off stories altogether it might be time to switch authors.

I had to adjust my perspective because I couldn't stomach the loss any other way. I laid on the bed with my wife just completely stunned in silence for an hour. The only time I felt worse in 2015 was when my cat died 3 weeks later. It was a terrible, no good year. And the way I got up for the next season was re-imaging my relation to sports as a passive participant in the story they were writing in real time (and getting super geeked into the analysis side of things, almost deconstructing the writing they were spitting out)

In that way 2015s season was actually pretty enjoyable, and reflecting back on 2013, it was the best effing story of heroics you could imagine and in the end SB 48 was almost like an epilogue for one of the coolest, most exciting stories any franchise could tell. I still watch the Tampa and Texans game to remind me that giving up is garbage, whether it's a game I'm playing or in general.

It's often times hard relating this kind of detached 'gentle reader' type of fandom to other people but it took a huge burden off in terms of outcomes. It's actually one way I imagine refocusing someone's fandom could actually make them fall in love with their bad old no good team all over again. Especially if you view bad teams as dark comedy writers.